Life According 2 you?

[noblok]

but dont you ever wonder of the events that have had to occur for you to do something?

im in two minds at the minute. im a firm believer in pre determinism. but now i think is there possibly some element of chance?
to think of how complex everything is for an event to occur, im more inclined to believe its all pre determined.
there is so many out comes you could expect from a single event except only one of them can and will ever happen.

If I'm not terribly mistaken, recent scientific theories suggest that at a very basic level it's random which direction electrons go. This would mean that everything is based on luck/randomness. It does not however mean that the consequences of pre-determinism are gone. After all everything but electrons is still determined.

Pookha: it isn't that easy to deny pre-determinism. On a reasonable/scientific level it's impossible. You can only deny it on a religious/philosophical level. You say it is pre-determined whether or not I'll fall in love, the person with who, where, etc would be pre-determined as well. How would you say it is luck?

such as you meeting your new girlfriend can be luck, you could leave your keys at home go back out of your way for 1 minute and then bump into them thats lucky

It is not luck in a pre-determined view. You forgot your keys because you were born as someone who easily forgets things. You forgot your keys this specific day (as you don't always forget everything) because e.g. your mother died and you were thinking about her. The fact that your mother died isn't random either, it can perfectly be explained scientifcally.

To be honest, I don't know whether pre-determinism is true or not. I've come to realise though that it doesn't matter at all. The same rules apply whether we live in a pre-determined world or not.

 

[Ezteq]

aaah life!!

well firstly i always wonder at why people are so desperate to understand it (or try to) it just is, and the whole thing of chains of events well tbh im amazed i was the first sperm to fertilize the egg tbh the rest must have been real n00bs and thats where it all starts if a different sperm fertilized the egg i would not be me, but then i wouldnt know any different and that applies to everything.

you can leave the house turn right and find £50 in the street, turn left you dont find it but you never knew you could have and something else will happen (doesnt have to be anything exciting, something like you reach your destination unharmed and have a boring day) but you'll never know what could have happened.

a chain of events that led to me meeting my bf is long and may seem predetermined but if a certain thing didnt happen at a crucial moment i wouldnt have known he existed and my life would have gone in the other direction so i'm not going to think wow thats amazing i had to go through all the shit to get to the good bit, maybe i would have got to the good bit by taking a short cut... who knows?


the way i live my life has altered dramatically due to my own personal circumstances i no longer have to bend like silly putty just to be accepted, i dont have to adopt other peoples views just to be accepted, i can make choices that would have landed me in it big time previously but now i can do it and not have to worry. its all very liberating and at 26 i feel im finally my own person.

what is life? why are we here?

i dont know, i dont care. i do make a consious effort to help people wherever i can because i do think that if you help someone and are kind and nice then maybe they will remember it and pass it along to someone else and maybe make a difference to how folk treat eachother. i do believe people can make a difference.

i also believe you only get treated the way you allow yourself to be treated, for years i was used and abused and it was because i let people do it to me, finally i had enough and stopped it, the choice i had to make to bring about this change wasnt a nice easy one but it was something i had to do, no matter how bad the alternative there is always a choice.

so life to me is getting by the best i can, hopefully making a difference for the good to things and keeping my joy.

for me joy is simple or complex but its something i never ever want to be with out, its going to bed knowing im safe and have everything i need right here or seeing something amazing or just walking home at 6am and hearing a bird singing. I do keep the child in me because i would hate to wake up one morning and not feel happy about a new day and chocolate milk little things no matter how small should never be undervalued and everything good should be cherished.

i dont know what will happen to me when im dead, i dont care really (which is surprising as its another of my new discoveries about myself) i hope its something good but i wont know until i do it.

there arnt any rules or guidelines to live by theres no set pattern or book that has all the answers (although some believe there is) theres just your way.

whatever you do i hope it works and i hope you all keep your joy.

 

[Phooka]

Pookha: it isn't that easy to deny pre-determinism. On a reasonable/scientific level it's impossible. You can only deny it on a religious/philosophical level. You say it is pre-determined whether or not I'll fall in love, the person with who, where, etc would be pre-determined as well. How would you say it is luck?

No i said it is set that you will fall in love for the first time. I dont see how the person is also set, if i wouldnt have gone too that party i wouldnt have met a certain girl and fall in love. How can you say that is pre determined, is there a master brain stearing us all?
I must admit i sometimes think certain things are pre determined, but i have no proof what so ever, i dont know how things would have gone if i had made another choice at some point in time. The girlfriends i have/have had all taught me a lesson i had to learn about myself, but i chose them as my GF's.

I think you are the driver in the game of life, so i like to think im sitting in a go-kart and just kickass and have funzor.

As ezteq said enjoy the little things like a flower, your warm blanket, the hot shower when u feel all nasty. Its all great and it doesnt matter the slightest what you do with youre life. Just be good and nice, because this is how you would want too be treated and in the end we are all part of the same energy, just manifested in a different tyoe of hardshell getting information and expience too contribute too the whole. We are the tru Perpetuem Mobilea (or something)

 

[tris-]

No i said it is set that you will fall in love for the first time. I dont see how the person is also set, if i wouldnt have gone too that party i wouldnt have met a certain girl and fall in love. How can you say that is pre determined, is there a master brain stearing us all?

pre determinism apparently means you believe in a creator who has set things in motion and that the events cant change.

i dont believe in the creator, but i believe in the pre determinism bit.

i suppose the way to say how it started is you were born and not someone else from another sperm. there is the first thing that has determined how your life will take course. maybe born a minute later a complication could of happend and you died. but you havent.


i was going to make a big explanation but i think the analogy of a butterfly flapping its wings causing a hurricane on the otherside of the world sums it up.

hell, if i didnt believe this i would never be discussing it here and would of been doing something else. but im not.

 

[Sparx]

i try not to think why are we here etc, if you spend too much time worrying about things you will never be happy, the worrying things happen when you dont expect it

I happy knowing i got really good friends around me, having money to do what i want and still have the freedom to go out on a pub crawl on a wednesday night

 

[Lamp]

Many people will walk in and out or your life,
but only true friends will leave footprints in your heart.

To handle yourself, use your head,
To handle others, use your heart.

Anger is only one letter short of danger.

If someone betrays you once, it's his fault.
If he betrays you twice, it's your fault.

Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.

God Gives every bird it's food,
but He does not throw it into it's nest.

He who loses money, loses much;
He who loses a friend, loses more;
He who loses faith, loses all.

Beautiful young people are acts of nature,
but beautiful old people are works of art.

Learn from the mistakes of others.
You can't live long enough to make them all yourself.

The tongue weighs practically nothing,
but so few people can hold it.

 

[Haggus]

DO NOT BRING RELIGION INTO THIS CONVO.

There is no such thing as a GOD. we are all teh same

 

[Saveus]

life is to short thats why we need more cwoboys in this world

 

[Lamp]

DO NOT BRING RELIGION INTO THIS CONVO.

There is no such thing as a GOD. we are all teh same

I'll bring a blue penguin with a vibrator up its ass into this convo if I want
FU

 

[old.Tohtori]

If someone betrays you once, it's his fault.
If he betrays you twice, it's your fault.

Or like i always say:

If someone slaps you, turn the other cheek.
If someone slaps you again, bend over for the third one.

 

[Yshynsin]

To me, a 15 year old boy in year 10 of school. Life is...

What you make of it, It can be enjoyable sometimes and sometimes it sucks arse, what i do in my life is enjoy it as much as i can, been alot of shit times, but you gotta look through it positivly, if you feel like shite, do something to occupy yourself, join a club, take up a sport, start a new game etc. There are people in life which are c*nts to say the least, fk em, enjoy your life, cuz as mum and dad and all other 'elders' say, life's to short. thats why im not doing my R.E Essay tonight! lol

 

[tris-]

life's to short. thats why im not doing my R.E Essay tonight! lol

i hear ya my brother from another mother.

i got 17 chemistry questions to answer for uni work, i did five and fucked it off.

CAN I GET AN AMEN

 

[Yshynsin]

Amen!

 

[noblok]

No i said it is set that you will fall in love for the first time. I dont see how the person is also set, if i wouldnt have gone too that party i wouldnt have met a certain girl and fall in love. How can you say that is pre determined, is there a master brain stearing us all?

No, you're misunderstanding me. I do not say that there is a master brain behind it all. I just say everything is pre-determined by biological, psychological, sociological, physical, ... factors.

You couldn't have chosen not to go to that party because of psychological factors. You go to that party because you like going to parties (a pre-determined trait). You decided to go to that party because you saw a poster earlier on your trip to the station. You had to go to the station, because you go to work by train. You go by train, because you care about the environment (pre-determined trait), etc. etc.

I must admit i sometimes think certain things are pre determined, but i have no proof what so ever, i dont know how things would have gone if i had made another choice at some point in time.

That's the whole point about pre-determinism. You couldn't have made another choice, your freedom is but an illusion.

Pre-determinism doesn't mean that certain things are bound to happen, independent of your choices. No, it means that your choices are pre-determined by your character, upbringing, etc.

pre determinism apparently means you believe in a creator who has set things in motion and that the events cant change.

It does not. You can believe in the Big Bang and from there certain things developped due to scientific necessities. There is no need for a creator in a pre-deterministic view.

 

[tris-]

It does not. You can believe in the Big Bang and from there certain things developped due to scientific necessities. There is no need for a creator in a pre-deterministic view.

thanks for correcting me. i was just going from wikipedias definition

 

[confused]

Read the 1st line of the 1st post... fking emo

 

[noblok]

thanks for correcting me. i was just going from wikipedias definition

Hmm, I see how the wikipedia definition may lead to such an interpretation.

"Predeterminism is generally the philosophy that all of the events of history, past, present and future, have been decided before the advent of temporal existence. It is a type of determinism founded upon scientific inquiry and closely related to the field of cosmology."

The wording "have been decided" is a bit misleading, as there isn't necessarily someone/something deciding it. I think the second sentence is clearer though, if you have a look at the definition of determinism:

"Determinism is the philosophical proposition that every event, including human cognition and action, is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences."

In the context of predeterminism this chain of events would follow a necessary pattern determined by scientific laws. This doesn't mean that there can't be a creator/intelligent designer, but it doesn't necessarily imply it either.

 

[tris-]

it was this bit that threw me

Advocates of predeterminism claim this predetermined set of universal laws is science itself. In effect, what this argument amounts to is the idea of a first cause.

 

[Darksword]

Life is about fun, if your not having fun, your not doing it right.

Life is about love, its the only thing we really need, food etc is all vital, but so is love.

Life is about empathy, you have to care for others, this comes under love, if you love your fellow man, every single one of them, then your doing something right, and thats how change comes about man.

Life shouldnt be this complicated man

 

[noblok]

It is impossible to find out what the first cause is though. If there was no motion before the first cause, then why did that first cause suddenly put it all in motion? I think you can only conclude that things have always been in motion.

A deity is no better solution to this problem than anything else. Where did the deity come from? If he was created it means that the process who created the deity would be the first cause. you can say he's always existed, but than it's more reasonable to say that the universe has always existed, since that requires one less supposition.

If you mean the fact that the scientific laws are predetermined. Well, they don't have to necessarily be determined by someone/something. I think the fact that they are predetermined means that they are constant, they cannot change. (although I'm not sure how this works in quantumphysics etc) I might be wrong on this one though, as I'm not that familiar with all the subtle shades of determinism.

There is at least one form of determinism which requires no deity though .

 

[Phooka]

Read the 1st line of the 1st post... fking emo

wtf is emo..

 

[tris-]

someone who is emotional apparently.

but everyone is emotional so imo that term has always been a load of bollocks anyway

 

[Phooka]

someone who is emotional apparently.

but everyone is emotional so imo that term has always been a load of bollocks anyway

thx
not bothered just curious