Keep takes - WH/WE

[Forgotten.]

I have posted this on other forums and i was just wondering what you guys think... being across different classes, i have only put this in the 2 class forums.

Yes i know im not lvl 40 and im far from it but i troll these forums enough to know that

1. Our "stealth" is not effective,
2. We have limited involvement in Keep takes.
3. We have no escape route on hit-and-run, when we unstealth in a keep it is 100% you will die.

My suggestions would be:

1. Base our initiative on their initiative, and if theirs is a certain % of ours they have a higher chance to see us, at the moment there is some soft lvl and when they get over it they can see you end of story, we have no way of improving our chance to be not seen, and i think the Keep lord should see though our stealth without a problem.

2. Create climb points or improve our pick lock (make it work ) so say give us 2 min CD on pick lock or remove it completely and put climb points on the walls that only the roguish classes can use.

3. Safe fall is a must, think of the co ordination several WE could do, you stealth in, you pick your target you destroy and jump from the wall you take out the defenders that you are designed to kill... i dont think throwing a knife is going to do that!.... so this isnt to overpowered... add wall guards that protect the casters and healers so that you can not stay there to long, you only have the TIME pick of 1 or 2 targets and then you have to go before the guards kill you, these guards should not be able to see though you stealth but aggro on you when you attack.

I just think these ideas should be discuss and not just ignored, at the moment we are classed as the caster/healer killers, all our skills pretty much back this up, but we can not reach our targets. This would not be overpowered as WH would get the same skills so it works both ways.

And for everyone that keeps saying take a siege weapon hard point... there are going to be 50v50 on a keep takes and from what i have understood there are like 3 points, what if a healer, or another class takes this... they you are to camp the spawn points and take out targets.. so now you have 5 WE camping the way back, to me this sounds pretty boring but yes it is required

I loved the classic DAoC and yet while this is not the same game it was designed by the same people, alot of the ideas that was put in RvR was great in that game, they should take some of that and put it in here, it would give defending tanks something to do by manning the keep walls protecting the casters.. and same for classes such as WL/Marauder and WE/WH on defence.

Well im sure some people are going to say yes we are fine... but im not trying to say that we are not... i just want to be hit and run class we should be, as they say if you dont ask you do not get.

 

[Forgotten.]

I know Mage/Healer classes will not like this but im sure Tanks/MDPS will find this idea interesting as something to do in keep defence

 

[Belgerath]

I like it, playing a WH myself I can see where you are coming from here

 

[rynnor]

Climb points would surely remove a lot of the point of having tanks with collision detection blocking the entryways in a keep siege - this sounds too radical a change frankly.

They never wanted a real stealth class - the changes you suggest would be moving in a direction they expressly avoided.

 

[Forgotten.]

If you only had 2 climb points sit a tank at the top of each... then he has a purpose to defend the climb point... rather than just waiting for the doors to be broken down

 

[AngelHeal]

climb points yes, safe fall no.

anyway stop defending inside the keep perhaps? or charge em when door goes down.

As a white lion i fight outside and get healed from above. works perfect.

 

[Forgotten.]

Ok even it it wasnt safe fall.... reduced damage on falling would work... to give us a chance to live when we need to escape... unlike WL we do not have pounce we die when we fall

Ok... think of it from the other side... your attacking a keep and the tanks are being healed and will not go down due to the fact healers are on the walls and are not being attacked ... yes i now this should be dealt with by Sorc and maybe SH... but other than attacking re enforcements that tanks, marauders can do already ... this is something to give to the rogueish classes that makes them different from the rest... we are already squishy... so this would give us something that everyone else cant do...

I dont think people will understand unless you play a WH/WE, you have to remember, we are "Built" and Designed to kill casters and Healers.. .they sit on the battlements... we can not get to them, and the likelyhood as soon as you unstealth ... you are going to get gang raped right away... so you need some kind of escape route... which would be safe fall

 

[Poag]

Or the jump back ability you get at later levels that you dont take fall damage from, Declare Anathema or something for WHs

IIRC it works like a knockback in that you dont take fall from it.

 

[Heta]

find a rather easy solution to you dying when uncoverd in stealth

remove stealth from the game! i wasn't suppoer to be any damn stealthers in this game!

 

[Forgotten.]

If you remove stealth from game you would not really have any difference from say WL or Marauders other than you have lower armour and die even faster... they would have to replace it with a buff able defence like resistance to snares, and spells... so you could get up close to the class we are designed to kill

And with hammer/Choppa coming back we would be identical... so why would you roll a WE or WH when you could have one of them classes?

Yeah that seems a good choice, a castable safe fall, that can not be used in stealth

 

[griralith]

only thing they need to fix with sieges other than the small bugs is to widen the chokepoints a bit.

stealth? remove it from game...

 

[Himse]

only thing they need to fix with sieges other than the small bugs is to widen the chokepoints a bit.

stealth? remove it from game...

why?

are you too shit to beat a stealther?

 

[griralith]

not at all, i eat them for breakfeast .... op clearly want stealth to be as in daoc, which apprently been stated by mythic not gonna happen.

i think stealth as it is now is fine, choose your fights proper then theres no problem.... i can go along with some sort of stealth charge ala daoc but thats all.

now crawl back under your slimey rock Nimse...

 

[Himse]

not at all, i eat them for breakfeast .... op clearly want stealth to be as in daoc, which apprently been stated by mythic not gonna happen.

i think stealth as it is now is fine, choose your fights proper then theres no problem.... i can go along with some sort of stealth charge ala daoc but thats all.

now crawl back under your slimey rock Nimse...

ofc you do, otherwise you wouldnt whine about them!

byeee ;]

 

[griralith]

where did i whine about them?

those i came across so far gets throwed to oblivion by our ironbraker or SM, now serious fuck off will ya?

 

[pikeh]

not at all, i eat them for breakfeast .... op clearly want stealth to be as in daoc, which apprently been stated by mythic not gonna happen.

i think stealth as it is now is fine, choose your fights proper then theres no problem.... i can go along with some sort of stealth charge ala daoc but thats all.

now crawl back under your slimey rock Nimse...

Why remove it from the game then?
If you kill them easy, and you think its fine, whats the big deal?

 

[griralith]

no big deal tbh, just dont agree in the suggestions thats all...

 

[Himse]

where did i whine about them?

those i came across so far gets throwed to oblivion by our ironbraker or SM, now serious fuck off will ya?

rage

the sarumans hand is glowing white!

 

[Forgotten.]

I didnt say i wanted stealth the same as DAoC... i just said i want to based on a stat so we can improve it so not every man and his dog can see us...

Also that is not the main point of the thread... im more concerned with being able to get inside the keep and kill the classes we are designed to kill.

 

[Tallen]

I didnt say i wanted stealth the same as DAoC... i just said i want to based on a stat so we can improve it so not every man and his dog can see us...

Also that is not the main point of the thread... im more concerned with being able to get inside the keep and kill the classes we are designed to kill.

I do think something needs doing regarding stealth and initiative but i would like to see it on an archetype basis as well as an individual's initiative.

Speaking as a healer, we fear stealthers, but often i can spot them, presumably as i have a high initiative, which i can imagine is very frustrating for the stealther as i can pop them easily with an insta and then they are screwed as all their good stuff are stealth openers. I would like to see something along the lines of the following:

WE/WH evens, maybe even a 10% bonus to initiative for spotting stealthers.
Tanks -10% to initiative ONLY for spotting stealth
Melee/ranged DPS -15% as above
Mages -20% as above
Healers -30% as above

I still hate WE's though, they are the bane of my existence

 

[Forgotten.]

Tallen, Yeah i like your idea... im not saying change stealth completely but we need a chance to be able to get to our targets...

Also i did mention putting keep guards up on the walls so if we go up there... we cant stay up there forever trying to solo your entire back line... its more of a hit and run tactic....

At the moment i think "stealth" is not working correctly ... i could be wrong but when you get over a certain Initiative you can pretty much see any stealther... there is no scaling or way to improve our stealth... which then negates the point of having it in the first place.

 

[Light]

...
all their good stuff are stealth openers.
...

you said it right there - so if it doesnt scale and becomes useless then either it needs some change or the classes need some other abilities to do thier job - i.e. take down squishy's

Saying this i also dont want stealth like it was in daoc and a repeat of the stealthwars (as it was know) either, although i did enjoy it at the time

 

[Forgotten.]

unfortunatly i think i left DAoC before the "stealthwars"... but it does sound pretty fun... i just want to enter the keep and have a fighting chance of taking someone down before i die... or jump off the battlements... i do think our stealth should be able to be seen though you run over the person... or are to close for more than say 1-2 seconds... and even give certain classes the chance to see though stealth with a CD... say classes like SW and SH

 

[charl8tan]

Personally I don't think the idea of giving penalties to spotting stealthed based upon class is such a great idea, why should a healer be more blind than a tank? Makes no sense and would more than aggrivate me to be honest.

Rather, there should be items that straight add to the effectiveness of the characters stealth (rare/difficult to acquire though), in addition to one of their stats (most likely initiative) also increasing it's effectiveness, though the degree to which it improves stealth would have to be balanced very well, as from what I have heard both Witch Elves and Witch Hunters have very high Initiative (could be wrong of course) and if done incorrectly could lead to no-one ever spotting one. After all, it should be stealth, not invisibility.

 

[Yeke]

I see the point about feeling useless in a siege but tbh that's what siege engines are for, man the ram or some other contraption until the door is down, or hide around the postern doors picking of lone reinforcements stealth is perfectly suited to that role.

 

[Justintime]

Fair changes

Sounds fair, every player want's to play an active roll in the different parts of the game.

Climb points would add a new and fun factor to the keeptaking.

 

[sloand]

Some people want it all. If you wonna stealth about solo then u may be in for a hard time. Played in a good grp or using the utilities you have in the right situation can make such a difference.

Why not give wall climbing to all melee classes cos what else do they get to do in a siege apart from man a ram and fire cannons or chuck an axe. As a healer its amazing. i just spam aoe heals, hots etc, riveting stuff. Its the nature of the class. You picked it.

 

[Calaen]

Having climb points will be gash, you will have xxx number of WE's ninja keep taking.


Try killing the reinforcements until you get inside instead of wanting to be able to constantly kill people when other are doing the work to get your ass into the keep

There is plenty for WE to do during a keep raid, being able to climb in insta kill the defenders on the walls then run away is shit.

 

[Tallen]

Personally I don't think the idea of giving penalties to spotting stealthed based upon class is such a great idea, why should a healer be more blind than a tank? Makes no sense and would more than aggrivate me to be honest.

Rather, there should be items that straight add to the effectiveness of the characters stealth (rare/difficult to acquire though), in addition to one of their stats (most likely initiative) also increasing it's effectiveness, though the degree to which it improves stealth would have to be balanced very well, as from what I have heard both Witch Elves and Witch Hunters have very high Initiative (could be wrong of course) and if done incorrectly could lead to no-one ever spotting one. After all, it should be stealth, not invisibility.

Stealthers are supposed to be the bane of healers and mages, as initiative is a commonly high stat for a healer (most healer items seem to have initiative as commonly as intelligence) it makes it too easy for a healer to spot a stealther and pop them.

I'm talking about reasonably minor bonuses and penalties in the grand scheme of things. Stealthers need to hit from stealth for maximum effectiveness or they are more like melee DPS without the armour or the survivability. As such surely they should have a better chance of doing so against the classes they are designed to do so against instead of something like a tank (and i have seen WE's drop tanks before, it is within their ability).

Additionally, if tanks can spot stealthers better than the rest, then they can better defend healers and mages. Which is, for me, a task tanks should be born for.

 

[Soazak]

I personally like it how it is already.

I think adding anything near daoc/wow stealth to this game would ruin it. Luckily GW will not let this happen.