Justice is served?!?!!

[Calaen]

People like him can't be cured or rehabilitated.

No more than paedophiles and rapists can be fixed.

 

[old.Tohtori]

People like him can't be cured or rehabilitated.

No more than paedophiles and rapists can be fixed.

Why not though?

If indeed it's a mental problem and mental problems can be fixed, why is there a difference?

And more so; If they are uncurable, why even try and why waste resources to keeping them locked up?

 

[fettoken]

Why not though?

If indeed it's a mental problem and mental problems can be fixed, why is there a difference?

And more so; If they are uncurable, why even try and why waste resources to keeping them locked up?

Either you are naive or just want to argue. Lets say he goes free, would you want him living in the same apartment block as you?

 

[Calaen]

Why not though?

If indeed it's a mental problem and mental problems can be fixed, why is there a difference?

And more so; If they are uncurable, why even try and why waste resources to keeping them locked up?

Because people that tend to kill 13 people or rape children are just broken. yeah sure give them some tablets, and let them be in control of taking said tablets.

I firmly agree that these people should be put to sleep, There is no doubt that this guy killed these women, and there is no valid reason from any rational human being that he can suddenly decide to just stop doing it. It's just bnot worth the risk at all.

People that kill multiple people over an extended period of time should not be allowed to wander the streets, because at any moment they are a nother crime waiting to happen. And it's certainly not worth the cost of changing his identity, giving him housing, and constant surveillance/protection for months.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Either you are naive or just want to argue. Lets say he goes free, would you want him living in the same apartment block as you?

All i'm asking is from people is why criminlas can't be rehabilitated.

When did that become naive or arguing?

There very well might be living some ex-murderers here, i don't know, i certainly wouldn't lose sleep over it. So no, i wouldn't want it ofcourse, but i wouldn't mind it either if he was deemed fit for society. As said, parole hearings usually don't go through, so if they do, i'm betting it's not willy nilly.

Would you want any known criminal living in your apartment block, or do you think that everyone who has ever been a problem, should be disregarded altogether?

It's a fair question.

Calaen; thanks for the answer. I may not share that view and do think that people can change, but it's yours. Let me ask you this though; where's the limit? Is it the period of time you posted(several, over time), is it one murder?

Trying to get your take on the whole scheme of things regarding murder and rehabilitation, if you can summarize it, great.

 

[fettoken]

All i'm asking is from people is why criminlas can't be rehabilitated.

When did that become naive or arguing?

There very well might be living some ex-murderers here, i don't know, i certainly wouldn't lose sleep over it. So no, i wouldn't want it ofcourse, but i wouldn't mind it either if he was deemed fit for society. As said, parole hearings usually don't go through, so if they do, i'm betting it's not willy nilly.

Would you want any known criminal living in your apartment block, or do you think that everyone who has ever been a problem, should be disregarded altogether?

It's a fair question.

Of course you shouldnt disregard "everyone" as a lost case. But, do you trust society as it is now, to reform murderers / mass murderers / rapist etc to be able to live in a society without commiting the same crimes again.

So, do you have trust in todays society / government to pull this off?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Of course you shouldnt disregard "everyone" as a lost case. But, do you trust society as it is now, to reform murderers / mass murderers / rapist etc to be able to live in a society without commiting the same crimes again.

So, do you have trust in todays society / government to pull this off?

If i disregard one, i should disregard everyone in my opinion. I think everyone can(not will) change and that everyone should atleast be tried to rehabilitate.

I don't think some governments do enough for rehabilitation, so i say no, i don't trust that governments are doing enough, but i trust they do enough where it counts.

So if they say "this guy who killed 13, will be set free", i trust that they have done their job ion making sure he's cured, or that they will make sure he's watched over, even if they don't do enough work on some cases.

So, in shot; could they do the crime again? Ofcourse, there's a risk everyone might do the crime for the first time too. Should that chance remove their freedom for all eternity without options for absolution/change? No.

 

[Thorwyn]

Yay! Discussion about death penalty! We didn´t have one for weeks!

Like I said in the past, I´m completely against capital punishment. I´m not going to explain my pov (again).
However, I´m also against the rehabilitation of mass murderers and other recidivists (child abuse, rapists etc.). The reason is, that there is no guarrantee, that the rehab program will be a permanent success (i.e. the person is really and completely "cured"). There are a number of cases in Germany, where they decided to rehabilitate rapists and let them go.. and they would just rape another victim. We don´t even understand the human mind enough to prevent, recognize and anticipate such dysfunctions, so how can we claim to be able to cure them?
If someone committed a crime and is sentenced to jail for the rest of his life, he should stay there for the rest of his life.

 

[kirennia]

I don't think some governments do enough for rehabilitation, so i say no, i don't trust that governments are doing enough, but i trust they do enough where it counts.

Unfortunately in England they simply don't. People released from jail are given so little survaillance and those they talk to can be manipulated incredibly easily as essentially, it's all verbal heresay about what they've been up to.

If a person is given 'life', to me that symbolises that it shouldn't be worth the risk of releasing them to the public; their freedom is worth less then those they have previously harmed, combined with the freedom of potential innocent bystanders they may harm.

If you harm someone in an irreversable way with pure malice, you forego your right to freedom. With current technologies, there is just no way to know if rehabilitation of the mind has worked...

 

[Ch3tan]

People like him can't be cured or rehabilitated.

No more than paedophiles and rapists can be fixed.

Are we still talking about sutcliffe here, or someone closer to all our hearts?

He is not going to be released, and if he was, it would probably cost the tax payer even more to keep him safe from harm.

 

[Sparx]

So many people dont actually understand what life means, they may spend 15 years inside but they are on parole for life. If they even so much as stay 20 mins past their curfew for the rest of their life then they go back inside without even seeing a judge

 

[soze]

So many people dont actually understand what life means, they may spend 15 years inside but they are on parole for life. If they even so much as stay 20 mins past their curfew for the rest of their life then they go back inside without even seeing a judge

And that fact will make the families of Victims killed by people on parole feel so much better. Hey your family member is dead but the guy who was sentenced to life 10 years ago has gone right back to prison.

I dont think he will ever get released but its not worth even discussing it, he is smart enough to fake being normal.

 

[Mey]

He won't get released.

 

[Marc]

And more so; If they are uncurable, why even try and why waste resources to keeping them locked up?

:lol:

 

[georgie]

Are we still talking about sutcliffe here, or someone closer to all our hearts?

Teeds?

 

[old.Tohtori]

:lol:

Yes we know, you can take quotes out of context and laugh at them in your little world.

Want a cookie for tying your laces again?

Why don't you explain what you're laughing at next time.

 

[Corran]

Why not though?

If indeed it's a mental problem and mental problems can be fixed, why is there a difference?

And more so; If they are uncurable, why even try and why waste resources to keeping them locked up?

peado's cant be fixed... my "mother in law" to be works with these people every single day in a mental institute. These people always have the thoughts and it just a matter of trying to stop them acting on the impulses rather then removing the thoughts... rarely can they ever be let out in public on their own... they get to go out now and again, but it requires 2 people for every one of these in order to just make sure they dont do anything.

Rehabilitation is all fine and good, but there so many repeat offenders you got to decide where the line is.. how many chances do you give people? A 3 strike and out rule should be iimposed on all prisoners... if they keep offending it shows they cant be rehabilitated to be a proper citizen and as scuh should just be locked up for good.

America is good fun as well, they basically use prisoners as slave labour. Pay them something like 25cents an hour and they one the biggest producers in the USA. I think they make something like 70% of the munitions in the country. So anyone that hits the 3 strikes should be used in that method. If you cant be of use outside of society then make them helpful whilst locked up for life

 

[Marc]

Yes we know, you can take quotes out of context and laugh at them in your little world.

Want a cookie for tying your laces again?

Why don't you explain what you're laughing at next time.

You said, if they are uncurable, why waste resources in keeping them locked up. Yeah that makes sense!!!! Lets just let the uncurable out to carry on murdering/raping!

 

[mooSe_]

You said, if they are uncurable, why waste resources in keeping them locked up. Yeah that makes sense!!!! Lets just let the uncurable out to carry on murdering/raping!

didn't he mean killing them as opposed to releasing them?

 

[Marc]

didn't he mean killing them as opposed to releasing them?

I dont know, he will probably say yes he did now that you have mentioned it, but he didnt say that in the post I quoted

 

[old.Tohtori]

peado's cant be fixed... my "mother in law" to be works with these people every single day in a mental institute. These people always have the thoughts and it just a matter of trying to stop them acting on the impulses rather then removing the thoughts... rarely can they ever be let out in public on their own... they get to go out now and again, but it requires 2 people for every one of these in order to just make sure they dont do anything.

Rehabilitation is all fine and good, but there so many repeat offenders you got to decide where the line is.. how many chances do you give people? A 3 strike and out rule should be iimposed on all prisoners... if they keep offending it shows they cant be rehabilitated to be a proper citizen and as scuh should just be locked up for good.

America is good fun as well, they basically use prisoners as slave labour. Pay them something like 25cents an hour and they one the biggest producers in the USA. I think they make something like 70% of the munitions in the country. So anyone that hits the 3 strikes should be used in that method. If you cant be of use outside of society then make them helpful whilst locked up for life

True, workforce out of jailbirds would work and does. It also promotes rehabilitation as they keep a steady job etc.

About curing paedos, well, that's still on the science fence, but if it's even managable for some individual, why not give them the chance? I think if there's a notable improvement, tangible even, then a slow, SLOW, reiteration would work.

If a repeat offense happens, three strikes for example(three being of same level, not one murder and two stolen candybars), then yes, it's safe to say they can't be rehabilitated.

If i remember correctly, many of repeat offenses happen due to "missing" jail, kind of a conditioned convict.

You said, if they are uncurable, why waste resources in keeping them locked up. Yeah that makes sense!!!! Lets just let the uncurable out to carry on murdering/raping!

Yoiu can be silly you know that?

Read what moose said, i never said to let them go on living free. I was asking that if they are uncurable, why don't people just put them out?

Nothing new by Marc.

I dont know, he will probably say yes he did now that you have mentioned it, but he didnt say that in the post I quoted

I'm not going to detail explain every word to you, the context was clear if you weren't looking for some :lol: trolling. Like you always do. Not one post by you on the thread, but here you are, taking a swing at me and failing miserably.

Oh and just to be sure you get it Marc; " why don't people just put them out?" does not mean i think personally that they should be killed.

 

[Garaen]

So many people dont actually understand what life means, they may spend 15 years inside but they are on parole for life. If they even so much as stay 20 mins past their curfew for the rest of their life then they go back inside without even seeing a judge

Yeah it must be extremelly difficult having an evening curfew. Probably not as difficult as being murdered though.

 

[Bugz]

True, workforce out of jailbirds would work and does. It also promotes rehabilitation as they keep a steady job etc.

So Mr X who has murdered countless children is going to be encouraged by the prospects of a job?

Err what?

 

[old.Tohtori]

So Mr X who has murdered countless children is going to be encouraged by the prospects of a job?

Err what?

Exactly what i said, yes, quite observant *golf clap*

Enabling rehabilitation and encouraging by job is quite the same indeed.

 

[Bugz]

Explain to me how holding a 'job' will promote rehabilitation in these kinds of people then?

 

[old.Tohtori]

I think i told you already that i can't be arsed with you, putting words in my mouth and insults were so helping.

You decided to go with insults and ignoring everything said until you saw one line you could grasp on again. I on the other hand don't hold any interest in talking it with you after that.

 

[Bugz]

Riiiight.

So basically your full of hot air? Just like every other thread? Okey.

Haha, owned

 

[noblok]

Bugz, you're no better than the troll you claim old.tohtori to be.

Explain to me how holding a 'job' will promote rehabilitation in these kinds of people then?

Okay, I'll bite.

(0. It wasn't a point about "mr. X who murdered countless of children", but about prisoners in general.)

1. Increase self-worth. Makes them feel less like a (useless) reject.
2. Make them more accustomed to the situation when they leave prison (i.e. a steady job, where certain things are expected of them).
3. It means they have some cash when they leave prison, so they don't have to worry too much about that.
4. Depending on what they did as labour it might be a worthwile addition to their CV. This makes it easier for them to find a job and might keep them out of crime.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And to add to that list;

- Removes any desire to simply lay about / accustoms day to day work habits.
- Keeps a steady source of work-out(depends on job ofc), which some science folk say helps with thinking(healthy body, healthy mind etc).

 

[Bugz]

So your correlating the desire not to mass murder with an individual's economic stability with some of those points?

Any hypothesis etc. to back this up? Or are we plucking 'maybe this could happen, maybe that could happen.'