Justice done

[Aoami]

God you are thick.

No mate, i'm really not. I'm putting forward an argument. I'm not a genius, i don't know the entire history of the IRA and Sinn Fein, and i apologise. As far as i'm concerned they have nothing to do with my argument.

If you would be so kind as to answer my question, and explain your argument rather than just saying 'God you are thick.' and calling me a retard i'd be most appreciative.

If you think my views are misguided then fine, i'm willing to learn, but provide me with materials to learn from rather than just an argument i've picked to peices.

cheers.

 

[cHodAX]

Leader of a terrorist group, now a politition.

Renounced violence publically, asked the IRA to decommision and they have done. He did what was required. These Islam4UK fuckers condone acts of terrorism on UK soil infact they applaud it, they also recruit for terrorist groups and also fundraise for them.

 

[Ch3tan]

I think it is important that we all realise that what happened in Northern Ireland and the terrorist groups that operated there is very different to what is happening now. The terror laws we have today were not present, and the path to peace lead to Sinn fien being accepted as a political party.

No one has taken away the members of Islam4uk from speaking, making it illegal to be a member of a group with known links to terror in the last decade is hardly infringing on freedoms. There are after all other movements trying to bring shariah law to the UK, who are capable to doing it peacefully and without using media spin and using the nations outrage as a tool.

 

[tierk]

No mate, i'm really not. I'm putting forward an argument. I'm not a genius, i don't know the entire history of the IRA and Sinn Fein, and i apologise. As far as i'm concerned they have nothing to do with my argument.

If you would be so kind as to answer my question, and explain your argument rather than just saying 'God you are thick.' and calling me a retard i'd be most appreciative.

If you think my views are misguided then fine, i'm willing to learn, but provide me with materials to learn from rather than just an argument i've picked to peices.

cheers.

First off, i would like to know what your expectations are of someone when the first response you give to their post is to label it as bullshit. Keep it polite and you get a debate, start off in the way you have and you get called names, its inevitable.

Secondly you haven't picked anything i have said so far apart, in fact you have so patently failed to even understand the point that i making that i am wondering why on earth i bothered posting in the first place.

Thirdly i am not asking you to learn the history of IRA or Sinn Fein, i am providing you with examples. Examples of what you ask? Other people /organizations that have much more credible links to terrorists and or terrorist organizations, who have been allowed to operate pretty much freely over the years. Your request that i prove that the IRA exists after 2005 only reinforces my 2nd point, that you have no idea what i am saying, well either that or you are just choosing to play it that way, I suspect the first.

I don't know what exactly you think banning this group will have on people like whatever his name is, except provide them with even more fuel for the fire. It achieves nothing except to give more publicity. The other thing that a lot of people are missing are the attack on civil liberties that are happening more and more often and the same rubbish excuse is being used every time. AS i keep saying where will it end?

 

[Aoami]

Thirdly i am not asking you to learn the history of IRA or Sinn Fein, i am providing you with examples. Examples of what you ask? Other people /organizations that have much more credible links to terrorists and or terrorist organizations, who have been allowed to operate pretty much freely over the years. Your request that i prove that the IRA exists after 2005 only reinforces my 2nd point, that you have no idea what i am saying, well either that or you are just choosing to play it that way, I suspect the first.

I don't know what exactly you think banning this group will have on people like whatever his name is, except provide them with even more fuel for the fire. It achieves nothing except to give more publicity.

The anti-terror law under which Islam4uk were banned wasn't introduced until 2005, that's why it's relevant if the IRA exist post 2005. If the laws were introduced after the IRA ceased to exist they could hardly be banned under them could they?

I've state many times that I think banning the group was the right idea, but the timing was wrong. The only reason they're getting publicity at the moment is because they were in the news already. If they weren't in the news already, the ban wouldn't have even been reported.

edit - also, just doing some reading - it became an offence to be a member of the IRA in 1989.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

The anti-terror law under which Islam4uk were banned wasn't introduced until 2005, that's why it's relevant if the IRA exist post 2005. If the laws were introduced after the IRA ceased to exist they could hardly be banned under them could they?

I've state many times that I think banning the group was the right idea, but the timing was wrong. The only reason they're getting publicity at the moment is because they were in the news already. If they weren't in the news already, the ban wouldn't have even been reported.

edit - also, just doing some reading - it became an offence to be a member of the IRA in 1989.

Precisely the existence of these laws is what is dangerous. The only thing those so-called "anti-terrorist" laws do, is fuel terrorism, and steal civil rights. It's a vicious circle....

Was gonna write more, but it just occurred to me that I can't be arsed really...

 

[Aoami]

Precisely the existence of these laws is what is dangerous. The only thing those so-called "anti-terrorist" laws do, is fuel terrorism, and steal civil rights. It's a vicious circle....

Was gonna write more, but it just occurred to me that I can't be arsed really...

Why? Your statement suggests that terrorism is a new thing. In the olden days, before human rights existed, the groups would've just been shut down and half the people probably killed.

The difference now is that too many people think they've got a god given right to behave how they fuck they want.

 

[Ch3tan]

He is right though that the anti-terror laws are dangerous though, but only because they are too powerful and abused by the police and local government, to do things they weren't designed for.

 

[old.Tohtori]

The difference now is that too many people think they've got a god given right to behave how they fuck they want.

'Even more people' would be more accurate than too many. People have been acting that way a long time now.

This whole thing smells like the smoking ban all over.

Smoking ban, as such, isn't a bad thing, but it would have, WOULD have been better if place owners had a choice if the bar was smoking or not.

Now it's just a blanket ban and that's where the similarity to this comes.

Next time, they won't be banning something you're against, but something you're for and then while you scream bloody murder(whjile here you're all for this ban), the ones against this ban will be against that ban too.

This too could've beeen handled way better, but these days it seems it's either 'nuke from orbit' or nothing at all.

 

[Aoami]

He is right though that the anti-terror laws are dangerous though, but only because they are too powerful and abused by the police and local government, to do things they weren't designed for.

Ah, but is it the laws themselves that are dangerous, or dodgy/corrupt police and LG officials that are dangerous?

 

[Ch3tan]

The laws themselves, because they are too ambiguous. Obviously the government is to blame ultimately for not providing clear guidelines of situations when they should be used as well.

 

[Huntingtons]

Ah, but is it the laws themselves that are dangerous, or dodgy/corrupt police and LG officials that are dangerous?

as long as they are not doing anything criminal, the police cannot be corrupt. so it would indeed be the laws.

 

[Aoami]

hmm

this kind of thing adds strength to some peoples arguments

 

[Chronictank]

This is probably a better example
or something closer to home

 

[Aoami]

This is probably a better example
or something closer to home

that doesn't relate to what i've been arguing though, what I posted does

 

[Litmus]

Shame it got canceled, i was looking forward to all the anti-islamic groups turning up too and kicking fuck out of islam4uk people.

 

[Chronictank]

that doesn't relate to what i've been arguing though, what I posted does

It shows abuse of legislation which shouldn't have been passed as it is so ambiguous it can be used to do anything the powers that be want to without the need (which existed in the previous measures which did practically the same thing only needed a warrant/due process to happen)

You are trying to defend the exact same thing happening, blanket legislation for something that can be dealt with under the existing laws
exactly like in the link you have provided, individuals should be dealt with if they are doing something wrong.

 

[Lamp]

I'm all for freedome of speech, as long as he's not breaking any laws (eg inciting murder or inciting racial hatred) he should be allowed to say what he likes

Banning his group? We all know he's just going to set up another group, so I'm not sure whether it was worth it. All its done is give him more publicity, and I think the media needs to stop giving this guy any more attention.

But, the one thing that grates me is on the one hand he's slagging off this country but on the otherhand he's taking £500 a week in benefits. He's available to give TV interviews anytime of the night or day, yet he can't work? At the very least, the DSS should be investigating his eligibility to work.

Edit, saw him on Newsnight a few days ago. He didn't come across very well at all. Only interested in what he had to say and basically wouldn't let Paxman or the other guest get a word in edgeways.