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Adri
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- #31
totally agree with dook
would make the game much more playable
would make the game much more playable
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Flimgoblin
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- #32
Originally posted by Meatballs
There is no dropoff on cc by spreading out, over half the classes cant get determination, 26% of a 60s timer is still 45s which basically puts you out of any good fight, and purge is still expensive for non pure tank classes and we still get stuffed if we get mezzed
CC goes from 100% duration to 50% at the edge of the radius... was put in last bit of 1.52
insta-mezz lets you stop the enemy casting their mezz... it doesn't stop the enemy army for that long.
The problem with insta-mezz is it makes the sorcerer pretty obsolete
if they reduced its range compared to the castable ones I think most sorcerers would feel that they can compete again...But the problem with sorcerers is their lack of survivability - few people play them because they die first... every fight... gets a bit tired after a while
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Whoodoo_RD
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- #33
I think all realms have their problem spells, Insta AE mezz just 1 of them, we could all debate the issues of "what other realms have we aint" all day, but whats the point, the other realms make up for it some other way in the end.
A healer with AEDoT = Shammy, so no point there. Mythic giveth and Mythic taketh away, its called balancing. Healers hit like pussies with their mallets, have no offence spells so why not give them a means of escape or defence.
Ive seen this question asked before on here, and the same replies came, ending up in stale mate when ppl start pointing out other realms "over-the-top" spell lines. We all got 1 that seems too uber, and if sorcs got it hard, change char!
Note: Thanes aint the only mezz breakers, just our AE tends to stick out in battle a lot more than say shammy AEDoT or the runie spear job. But youd not moan about them for runie PBT and Shammy buffs / heals. Also heard of purge and group purge - the RAs and spells that break mezz? This is an old record, stop playing it whinging git. Also at 41 is highly likely the enemy was going to resist your spell....instas dont tend to work a lot against reds.
A healer with AEDoT = Shammy, so no point there. Mythic giveth and Mythic taketh away, its called balancing. Healers hit like pussies with their mallets, have no offence spells so why not give them a means of escape or defence.
Ive seen this question asked before on here, and the same replies came, ending up in stale mate when ppl start pointing out other realms "over-the-top" spell lines. We all got 1 that seems too uber, and if sorcs got it hard, change char!
Note: Thanes aint the only mezz breakers, just our AE tends to stick out in battle a lot more than say shammy AEDoT or the runie spear job. But youd not moan about them for runie PBT and Shammy buffs / heals. Also heard of purge and group purge - the RAs and spells that break mezz? This is an old record, stop playing it whinging git. Also at 41 is highly likely the enemy was going to resist your spell....instas dont tend to work a lot against reds.
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Stormm
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- #34
Whoodoo_RD, i don't think you get the point. this aint about who is overpowered, what spell lines are uber - who wins all the time... RVR is about fighting is it not - and spending 9/10 fights stood around mezzed, then stunned and rooted is not what RVR should be about.
This isnt a huge whine about being owned - or overpoweredness, its simply stating the obvious factor that makes RVR much less fun for Albions than any other realm.
And we play for fun right!?
Its not gonna stop me playing, but I have see plenty of ppl getting bored of the same old mezzed, stunned, rooted crap who will leave the realm or game entirely.
ps. hibs are waaay overpowered!!! rah!!
This isnt a huge whine about being owned - or overpoweredness, its simply stating the obvious factor that makes RVR much less fun for Albions than any other realm.
And we play for fun right!?
Its not gonna stop me playing, but I have see plenty of ppl getting bored of the same old mezzed, stunned, rooted crap who will leave the realm or game entirely.
ps. hibs are waaay overpowered!!! rah!!
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stu
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- #35
There is. It's 100% - you just need to be outside the radius. Mebbe if you lot didnt run around in 20s AOE Mezz wouldn't be so devastating
And yes I know how expensive Purge is, and how most people can't get Determination - I'm in the same boat and it gets me stitched up by Minstrels daily. OK, not Minstrels, Coren
What I would say is that Albion have (or seem to have) more CC in depth that Midgard. Yeah, we've got our Healer, but other than that we have 1 or 2 ghetto CC tools spread around on classes that really don't get played that much - get onto the Healer quickly and we've got precious little to work with. In comparison the Alb groups I run into seem to have a higher concentration of more effective "secondary" CC classes. Might be subjective, but I *very* rarely get into combat with an Alb group and don't get stunned/mezzed/rooted/snared for at least part of the fight. If you think Albion is the only realm to encounter that Stormm you're very much mistaken, coz you guys dish out more than your fair share.
Added to which, the Healer has to heal AND CC - which would be great if there were loads of Healers running around, but there's precious few to go round atm.
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Stormm
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- #36
but at least u have a chance to get to our CC'ers - interupt etc, we have none
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case-rigantis
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- #37
Originally posted by stu
There is. It's 100% - you just need to be outside the radius. Mebbe if you lot didnt run around in 20s AOE Mezz wouldn't be so devastating
And yes I know how expensive Purge is, and how most people can't get Determination - I'm in the same boat and it gets me stitched up by Minstrels daily. OK, not Minstrels, Coren
What I would say is that Albion have (or seem to have) more CC in depth that Midgard. Yeah, we've got our Healer, but other than that we have 1 or 2 ghetto CC tools spread around on classes that really don't get played that much - get onto the Healer quickly and we've got precious little to work with. In comparison the Alb groups I run into seem to have a higher concentration of more effective "secondary" CC classes. Might be subjective, but I *very* rarely get into combat with an Alb group and don't get stunned/mezzed/rooted/snared for at least part of the fight. If you think Albion is the only realm to encounter that Stormm you're very much mistaken, coz you guys dish out more than your fair share.
Added to which, the Healer has to heal AND CC - which would be great if there were loads of Healers running around, but there's precious few to go round atm.
sorry to disagree but this is your perception and is incorrect..in alb we usually struggle to get 1 minstrel in each group of 8 let alone anymore than 1 and sorcerors? might see 1 sorceror in 30 or 40 people if that...people are giving up on minsterels in droves after realising how difficult and cumbersome they are to play
yes we have good root in that a lot of theurgists go RvRing but virtually all other realm s classes have some form of ranged attack negating this advantage
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Whoodoo_RD
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- #38
Originally posted by Stormm
but I have see plenty of ppl getting bored of the same old mezzed, stunned, rooted crap who will leave the realm or game entirely.
ps. hibs are waaay overpowered!!! rah!!
Beleive me when i say that im as sick of mezz as you are, playing one of the games most gimped chars (Thane). And we suffer from the mezz thing too ya know.
The ONLY edge a healer has is the insta mezz and stun. One on one a healer is useless against any other character from any realm. Ive seen level 50 healers taken out by level 40-43 players. Take away their instas they are nout.
Yes it can be seen as an offensive spell, after all they mezz, tanks go in and kick the crap out of them. Take away their insta, and whatthey gonna do? Might just as well sit down and die. Again as said before, healers are NOT agro'ers, the biggest offence they have is good defence.
As for hibbies being overpowered, well now we robbed them of their 30% extra on their spells, you should see a difference. Wanna flame another realm, well you albs got to many ppl in your realm, and your over powered in the melee department. Lets see if we cant fix that too eh
(j/k)
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case-rigantis
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- #39
question most new minstrels have asked me...
"so how do i auto equip instruments?"
"why do my pets keep attacking me when i try to play another song?"
"so how do i auto equip instruments?"
"why do my pets keep attacking me when i try to play another song?"
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zedmeet
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- #40
There seem to have been 2 big gripes with rvr.
1. Fights over to quickly due to too much damage too fast.
2. Being mezzed for most of fight while the classic Eversnore tactic of mez group, all on one, repeat, repeat, makes encounters boring for both sides.
Mythic have taken notice, look at Epic armour and SC, designed to reduce damage taken so fights will take longer. Note well that this will mean that eventually only warriors and healers will be have any long term rvr viability.
Now in response to compaints about mez, Mythic is going to marginalise it, using resists rates, fall off from target point. I think any CC who uses mez should be very worried.
Personally I would replace mez/stun with root, it allows combat to continue, casters and archers can duel it out, melee can try to concentrate on the edges of rooted group but will still be taking damage.
Lets face it, mez was put in to give casters chance to live long enough to get some shots off before swarmed by enemy, root can achieve this.
1. Fights over to quickly due to too much damage too fast.
2. Being mezzed for most of fight while the classic Eversnore tactic of mez group, all on one, repeat, repeat, makes encounters boring for both sides.
Mythic have taken notice, look at Epic armour and SC, designed to reduce damage taken so fights will take longer. Note well that this will mean that eventually only warriors and healers will be have any long term rvr viability.
Now in response to compaints about mez, Mythic is going to marginalise it, using resists rates, fall off from target point. I think any CC who uses mez should be very worried.
Personally I would replace mez/stun with root, it allows combat to continue, casters and archers can duel it out, melee can try to concentrate on the edges of rooted group but will still be taking damage.
Lets face it, mez was put in to give casters chance to live long enough to get some shots off before swarmed by enemy, root can achieve this.
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Flimgoblin
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- #41
root makes me just as ineffective as a mezz.
they've toned down mezz etc. - they have cure mezz spells, aoe dropoff, determination, purge, resists...
things are getting better.
they've toned down mezz etc. - they have cure mezz spells, aoe dropoff, determination, purge, resists...
things are getting better.
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Madonion Slicer
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- #42
personally i find the fact that any spell is insta a pretty stupid idea, all abilities used by a Casting Character, should be casted if something is insta they is no way to stop it.
I would be pissed if i lvl a Sorc to 50 knowing that i would be the king of CC in RVR to then see my enemy realms can do everything i can but with an instant cast. No wonder there are none around.
Imagin if some crazy reason Fire Wizard Bolts where Insta, do you think there would be many Void Eld's or Runie's about with there 3s castable bolts.
Giving one Realm a castable spell and then another an insta version is pretty pointless.
I would say ditch insta spells, give anyone that requires spells to be cast QC.
Of course it is easy to spot that Music classes would need to be change but i cant see why damage spells could not be played with an instrument.
Lots of holes in my theory but hey i am not a game designer, just a player.
I would be pissed if i lvl a Sorc to 50 knowing that i would be the king of CC in RVR to then see my enemy realms can do everything i can but with an instant cast. No wonder there are none around.
Imagin if some crazy reason Fire Wizard Bolts where Insta, do you think there would be many Void Eld's or Runie's about with there 3s castable bolts.
Giving one Realm a castable spell and then another an insta version is pretty pointless.
I would say ditch insta spells, give anyone that requires spells to be cast QC.
Of course it is easy to spot that Music classes would need to be change but i cant see why damage spells could not be played with an instrument.
Lots of holes in my theory but hey i am not a game designer, just a player.
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Stormm
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- #43
this was my point - i have no problem with CC, just insta CC
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Danya
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- #44
Hope you don't like moving with speed song Madonion. Removing instas from minstrels and skalds would completely kill both classes. I do mean completely. Insta DDs are designed to be used in combat, you can't do that if you need to stop and cast/play it. Likewise the insta stun and mez on minstrels and skalds are designed to be used in combat. You might want to consider that they only have 700 range, it's not like the long range instas of healers or bards (or even champs). I think all instas should be changed to 1000 range, that weakens their offensive abilties while still keeping them effective in defence.
Removing instas from minstrels and skalds would completely kill both classes. I do mean completely. Insta DDs are designed to be used in combat, you can't do that if you need to stop and cast/play it. Likewise the insta stun and mez on minstrels and skalds are designed to be used in combat. You might want to consider that they only have 700 range, it's not like the long range instas of healers or bards (or even champs). I think all instas should be changed to 1000 range, that weakens their offensive abilties while still keeping them effective in defence.
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Madonion Slicer
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- #45
Ok i admit my theory is flawed when it comes to Minstrels and Bards, i guess you could make the excuse that they are Music Classes and Not Casting classes, so they can keep there insta Stun and DD, as they are ment to be Magical Shouts and not spells. But as for all other Magic using Classes be it Healing/Damage/CC i dont agree with some being insta and some be 3s + casting spell.
Insta and 3s is a whole world apart, Give the Minstel or Sorc an insta Ae mezz and you would see a turn around in RVR from the day it was implemented.
Like wise take away the insta Stun/Mez from Hib/Mid casting classes and you see the same turn around.
Give or Take it away, leaving it as it is crime to all Sorc and will see them die out completely.
Insta and 3s is a whole world apart, Give the Minstel or Sorc an insta Ae mezz and you would see a turn around in RVR from the day it was implemented.
Like wise take away the insta Stun/Mez from Hib/Mid casting classes and you see the same turn around.
Give or Take it away, leaving it as it is crime to all Sorc and will see them die out completely.
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old.chesnor
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- #46
Removing insta mezz just won't work. Bottom line is that in RvR CC is the king, if it's not mezz, it will be root or stun. If you are frustrated being out of action through CC in the frontiers, removing CC isn't the answer your'e looking for.
People use CC to win, it is an absolutely integral part of your realms ability to compete in RvR. Albions problem is that because they percieve the sorceror to be gimped, many don't choose to play that class. The lack of insta AOE mezz isn't the fundamental problem, as the sorcerors AE mezz is superior to (most) healers AE mezz and QC gives sorcs a virtual insta mezz anyway.
Another problem is that bards and healers, both primary mezzing classes, also offer RvR groups other vital utility. Speed for the bard, and healing for the healer. Sorcerors only offer mezz in RvR basically. That linked to the fact that sorcs wear paper armour, means they wil have a tougher time in RvR. But this is where its down to the sorcs realmmates to realise that the most important class they can take into the frontiers is the sorc, lose the sorc and you lose the battle. Minstrels mezz just doesn't cut it I am afraid.
Danyans idea of dropping insta range to 1000 would certainly help sorcs, and not damage healers or bards in any way. But seriously, a sorc with insta AE mezz would be overpowered (think about it please) and a healer without instas would be a very, very broken class.
People use CC to win, it is an absolutely integral part of your realms ability to compete in RvR. Albions problem is that because they percieve the sorceror to be gimped, many don't choose to play that class. The lack of insta AOE mezz isn't the fundamental problem, as the sorcerors AE mezz is superior to (most) healers AE mezz and QC gives sorcs a virtual insta mezz anyway.
Another problem is that bards and healers, both primary mezzing classes, also offer RvR groups other vital utility. Speed for the bard, and healing for the healer. Sorcerors only offer mezz in RvR basically. That linked to the fact that sorcs wear paper armour, means they wil have a tougher time in RvR. But this is where its down to the sorcs realmmates to realise that the most important class they can take into the frontiers is the sorc, lose the sorc and you lose the battle. Minstrels mezz just doesn't cut it I am afraid.
Danyans idea of dropping insta range to 1000 would certainly help sorcs, and not damage healers or bards in any way. But seriously, a sorc with insta AE mezz would be overpowered (think about it please) and a healer without instas would be a very, very broken class.
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Danya
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- #47
The crazy thing is bards asked for defence, and suggested a pbae mez, and got a 1500 range insta. I can't really see them complaining too vociferously about a 1000 range insta.
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Arnor
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- #48
Ahahahahhahhaah
hahhahahhahahaha
and you are basing this on what?
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Flimgoblin
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- #49
the main advantage to insta is that you can do it on the run
I'd be happier with reduced range than removing the instas - healers/bards would be pretty knacked in PvE without them (no quickcast so can't cast your mezz if in combat)
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Flimgoblin
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- #50
S/S Warrior not only gets more base damage than a S/S armsman but he can switch to a two handed axe and get a 40% damage boost if he so fancies.
but I'd not say they're overpowered, did they need the base damage boost? not really -
did they need something more interesting to have than just everything every other midgard character has? yes
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Loth
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- #51
Most Sorcs don't want insta-mez (I certainly don't) but removing it would be a bit daft too. I think the range should be decreased probably to 1000 units.
As Ches said, Sorcs are *perceived* to be gimps by many people, so not many get rolled up (and most don't make it past 30 anyway).
Sorcs have their problems, but I don't think we are gimp.
I got a great RvR group the other night and had a level 50 Armsman 'sorc-sitting' me all night.
What a difference! As soon as I had something on me, he took care of it.
Not only was I able to do my job, I was able to do it well.
Looking after the Sorc really works, try it - you'll get more RP's
As Ches said, Sorcs are *perceived* to be gimps by many people, so not many get rolled up (and most don't make it past 30 anyway).
Sorcs have their problems, but I don't think we are gimp.
I got a great RvR group the other night and had a level 50 Armsman 'sorc-sitting' me all night.
What a difference! As soon as I had something on me, he took care of it.
Not only was I able to do my job, I was able to do it well.
Looking after the Sorc really works, try it - you'll get more RP's
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LunarDarkShadow
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- #52
Nope. Sorry. That's wrong.
I've been halfway through a QC AoE mezz cast and I've still been insta-mezzed.
We saw them first. I stopped moving first. I started quick-casting first. (with dex of 260 or so, so I'm not slow to cast)
Yet my group was mezzed and we all died.
It happens a lot.
Insta mezz is a pain in the proverbial.
And quick-cast CAN be interrupted, despite what they say about it.
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old.chesnor
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- #53
I wasn't saying sorcs don't need instas because they have QC, or that QC is anywhere near as useful as instas. But QC is on 30s timer, and is the full duration mezz. Not the small radius, short duration job of healers/bards.
Seriously, if your ENTIRE group was killed by 1 insta AE mezz, you might want to revisit your RvR tactics. Do you all like /stick to the minstrel and let him steer or something. I used to love people doing that in the frontiers....suckers
With 36 in PAC, the radius for insta AE mezz is 150, not until 47 in PAC does it increase to 300. And not many healers will spec PAC so high since AUG was fixed. Basically, if your group gets ganked because you were all insta AE mezzed, you weren;t playing too well.....
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old.Charonel
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- #54
all that little 5am raid accomplished was to knock 10% of our spell damage off, we still have +10% spell damage, you get nothing for having your own relics apart from the ability to steal other realms versions of them, and since we still have one enemy power relic in dagda, we still get +10%.
only ever had +20% from relic bonus, you can only ever GET +20%, and since you lose nothing for losing your own relic, that's all there is too it.
you dont get -10% if you lose your own relic.
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poppamies
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- #55
About the healers insta ae mezz.
When 50 mids are in emain u can with good luck find 2-3 healers.
So theres really not that many of us out there.
And the insta is on a 10 minute timer, and trust me ur grp is not the one we encounter out there at all times. so the instas are used up most of the times.
But i atleast dont run sticked to a grp member, i tend to be a hiding behind it or on the side, so when u mezz my gro i cast a ae mezz (radius is 200 more and duaration is 32 sec longer then insta).
That gives me 54 sec to cure mezz if they havnt used purge.
Then its just to stunn and kill u off one by one.
removing the healers cc would mean no healers in mid, leading to a dead realm.
(damn hard to exp with only a handfull of shammies out there and no pow regain)
When 50 mids are in emain u can with good luck find 2-3 healers.
So theres really not that many of us out there.
And the insta is on a 10 minute timer, and trust me ur grp is not the one we encounter out there at all times. so the instas are used up most of the times.
But i atleast dont run sticked to a grp member, i tend to be a hiding behind it or on the side, so when u mezz my gro i cast a ae mezz (radius is 200 more and duaration is 32 sec longer then insta).
That gives me 54 sec to cure mezz if they havnt used purge.
Then its just to stunn and kill u off one by one.
removing the healers cc would mean no healers in mid, leading to a dead realm.
(damn hard to exp with only a handfull of shammies out there and no pow regain)
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Mardukk
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- #56
nm
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Vell
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- #57
Originally posted by Fingoniel
S/S Warrior not only gets more base damage than a S/S armsman but he can switch to a two handed axe and get a 40% damage boost if he so fancies.
but I'd not say they're overpowered, did they need the base damage boost? not really -
did they need something more interesting to have than just everything every other midgard character has? yes
No no no. Heroes and armsmen get a 40% damage bonus for using two-handed weapons, but Midgard warriors only get a 20% bonus from 2 handers.
Also, Armsmen get plate, and heroes get moose-form. Warriors get.....um......
Well, they get nothing at the moment. That's why their base damage is being increased - to balance out the three classes.
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poppamies
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- #58
And if u look at how many healers in excal got more then 30k rps last week ull find 8 of em.
so really u dont have to worry that much about the healers insta ae mezz.
Dont really see the point in this moaning.
U make it sound like its more of an rule that u get insta mezzed then it actually is.
Compare the times u been in a fight and got insta mezzed to the times u havnt, and if u come up with that u most of the times get insta mezzed, well u really are one unlucky basterd =)
so really u dont have to worry that much about the healers insta ae mezz.
Dont really see the point in this moaning.
U make it sound like its more of an rule that u get insta mezzed then it actually is.
Compare the times u been in a fight and got insta mezzed to the times u havnt, and if u come up with that u most of the times get insta mezzed, well u really are one unlucky basterd =)
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LunarDarkShadow
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- #59
Well no, but enough of us were mezzed to make it a pretty easy walkover for a full group of erm... Mids I think it was.
And who said anything about playing well? I'm a sorceror, and a female one at that, I'm allowed to play badly.
I'm rare, you know
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Tesla Monkor
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- #60
It's not even 20%, Vell. Midgard 2hd damage is 115%, where Albion has 140%. Presumbaly because Midgard doesn't need to spec specifically for 2hd. (We don't need special training to realise you can hit people with bigger weapons just as well as with small ones.