Just a thought, come with feedback!

[e]

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
389
Just a thought, come with feedback plz!

What if, in melee, the dmg would be reduced with the number of players hitting the same target ? What do i mean? Well:

Lets say 3 ppl jump a solo player and all of the 3 are hitting same target, instead of 100% dmg from each player (300% total) the game engine would "nerf" the dmg to: 100% from first player, 80% from second, and 60 % from third player = totalt 240% from all 3 players, instead of the normal 300%. (these numbers are just an example - you get the idea of what im trying to say).

Why? Well to make things a little more interesting, players would have to take one target each to max their dmg potential, making fights longer, making that solo player have "a little better chance" etc.

Imagine a fight when many ppl would jump you. You would still be ganked BUT, first person can hit you with 100% because he has 100% access to you, second person a little less cuz the first person is in his way, hindering him from full access to you... 3:rd to 8:th persons all are "blocked" by the other persons so they cant "reach" thus not dealing full dmg to the target. The 8:th person might not do more then 10% of his max damage, cuz he has 7 ppl in the way of his "reach".

So if 8 ppl would jump a target player the formula would be something like this:
1. 100%
2. 80%
3. 60%
4. 40%
5. 30 %
6. 25%
7. 20%
8. 10%

Total: 365% dmg instead of the way things are now and 800%.

I personally would like to see this in game, what do you guys think?

PS. dont get too hung up on the numbers, the important thing is the "idea" itself - the numbers would have to be figured out with a little more thought. ds.

--------------------edit-----
It would be cool if the fights in daoc would be something like the fights in the movie Braveheart, like man-to-man all vs all (cuz everybody is important enough to be targeted). In that movie I didnt see 8 ppl running on first guy, killing him, running to next killing him, etc etc =)
 

Ckiller

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
909
hmm the same for casters would i presume??

then it might get interesting
 

Archeon

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
2,047
Sounds like a nice idea, don't know if it could be implemented but i sure as hell wouldn't complain about it. :D
 

[e]

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
389
Ckiller said:
hmm the same for casters would i presume??

then it might get interesting
Ofc, same for casters. This would mean that even in zerg fights would be more "man to man" rather then /assist 8 on 1 untilll dead, then next, next etc...
 

Ckiller

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
909
Sadly i dont think it would work since that would make certain classes almost unkillable...
 

[e]

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
389
Ckiller said:
Sadly i dont think it would work since that would make certain classes almost unkillable...
Then it's a balance issue that needs to be adressed imo for that caracter class.
 

Vasconcelos

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
4,022
[e] said:
So if 8 ppl would jump a target player the formula would be something like this:
1. 100%
2. 80%
3. 60%
4. 40%
5. 30 %
6. 25%
7. 20%
8. 10%

Total: 365% dmg instead of the way things are now and 800%.

Wot if more than 8 ppl hit same target?? like in keep fights, RR or massive epic battles?? 0% damage for every1 above the 8th attacker....
 

Herjulf

Banned
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
673
[e] said:
What if, in melee, the dmg would be reduced with the number of players hitting the same target ? What do i mean? Well:

Lets say 3 ppl jump a solo player and all of the 3 are hitting same target, instead of 100% dmg from each player (300% total) the game engine would "nerf" the dmg to: 100% from first player, 80% from second, and 60 % from third player = totalt 240% from all 3 players, instead of the normal 300%. (these numbers are just an example - you get the idea of what im trying to say).

Why? Well to make things a little more interesting, players would have to take one target each to max their dmg potential, making fights longer, making that solo player have "a little better chance" etc.

Imagine a fight when many ppl would jump you. You would still be ganked BUT, first person can hit you with 100% because he has 100% access to you, second person a little less cuz the first person is in his way, hindering him from full access to you... 3:rd to 8:th persons all are "blocked" by the other persons so they cant "reach" thus not dealing full dmg to the target. The 8:th person might not do more then 10% of his max damage, cuz he has 7 ppl in the way of his "reach".

So if 8 ppl would jump a target player the formula would be something like this:
1. 100%
2. 80%
3. 60%
4. 40%
5. 30 %
6. 25%
7. 20%
8. 10%

Total: 365% dmg instead of the way things are now and 800%.

I personally would like to see this in game, what do you guys think?

PS. dont get too hung up on the numbers, the important thing is the "idea" itself - the numbers would have to be figured out with a little more thought. ds.
ERRRR

why?

thats the stupidest non realistic, totally out in thin air grasping for stupid straws idea i have ever heard.

Why would number of people in a grp affect dmg output, that is stupid.
The idea of grping up is getting stronger, not the other way around.

st000pid idea.
 

Light

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
692
Herjulf said:
ERRRR

why?

thats the stupidest non realistic, totally out in thin air grasping for stupid straws idea i have ever heard.

Why would number of people in a grp affect dmg output, that is stupid.
The idea of grping up is getting stronger, not the other way around.

st000pid idea.
i dunno about the idea as it stands but the way it is currently is the more non-realistic

can you imagine 10+ people with big fuk off swords trying all to hit 1 person without twating thier own realm m8s? :D
 

Herjulf

Banned
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
673
Light said:
i dunno about the idea as it stands but the way it is currently is the more non-realistic

can you imagine 10+ people with big fuk off swords trying all to hit 1 person without twating thier own realm m8s? :D
realism indeed isnt standing inside eachother, but trying why damage would lower when in full grp vs being solo is shurely not either relistic.

Why do we have plattons in RL armies and not solo ppl running around.
Ill tell you what to increase firepower/suppression.

The original posters idea is stupid, and would make defensive classes overpowered to the point of sillyness.
And would make fights last ridicilously long.

If something should come out of running FG´s it is the opposite imo, defensive classes defense should get lowered the more ppl are on him.
 

Gahlzor

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
47
[e] said:
What if, in melee, the dmg would be reduced with the number of players hitting the same target ? What do i mean? Well:

Lets say 3 ppl jump a solo player and all of the 3 are hitting same target, instead of 100% dmg from each player (300% total) the game engine would "nerf" the dmg to: 100% from first player, 80% from second, and 60 % from third player = totalt 240% from all 3 players, instead of the normal 300%. (these numbers are just an example - you get the idea of what im trying to say).

Why? Well to make things a little more interesting, players would have to take one target each to max their dmg potential, making fights longer, making that solo player have "a little better chance" etc.

Imagine a fight when many ppl would jump you. You would still be ganked BUT, first person can hit you with 100% because he has 100% access to you, second person a little less cuz the first person is in his way, hindering him from full access to you... 3:rd to 8:th persons all are "blocked" by the other persons so they cant "reach" thus not dealing full dmg to the target. The 8:th person might not do more then 10% of his max damage, cuz he has 7 ppl in the way of his "reach".

So if 8 ppl would jump a target player the formula would be something like this:
1. 100%
2. 80%
3. 60%
4. 40%
5. 30 %
6. 25%
7. 20%
8. 10%

Total: 365% dmg instead of the way things are now and 800%.

I personally would like to see this in game, what do you guys think?

PS. dont get too hung up on the numbers, the important thing is the "idea" itself - the numbers would have to be figured out with a little more thought. ds.
should deffenetly be same for casters then or it would be a pretty hard nerf for melee. especially since ToA allready ups castergroups quite a bit from what I have heard and read.

also this would affect PvE badly as it is the exact same code as PvP. This would mean that exping woukld be harder and epic encounters where you have 5+ dmgdealers the dmg would be really nerfed making it alot harder.

also remember that if multiply targets are hiting on you it's harder to protect yourself from all the hits making them hit more often and also abit harder. eventho i agree that it would get kinda crowded around you with 4+ ppl around you(if they are same size as you atleast ;)).
 

[e]

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
389
Herjulf said:
ERRRR

why?

thats the stupidest non realistic, totally out in thin air grasping for stupid straws idea i have ever heard.

Why would number of people in a grp affect dmg output, that is stupid.
The idea of grping up is getting stronger, not the other way around.

st000pid idea.
You should read entire post, think a little then reply m8. It's NOT the number of ppl, only the number of ppl on SAME target... also plz state WHY it's a stupid idea. Im thinking about sending this to Mythic once I get enough feedback with pros and cons.

Good:
1. slightly reduce the power of zerging a single target (most ppl agree its non-fun / problem as is today)
2. make grp vs grp fights slightly longer, more man-to-man, rather then /assist all on one untill dead, then next target.
3. more realistic, as more ppl on same target = less access to target, thus ppl cant use their full dmg potential.
4. duo-trio vs a solo will be more interesting - the solo might actually have a little chance.

Bad:
1.2.3.4.5 etc, help me out...
 

[e]

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
389
Vasconcelos said:
Wot if more than 8 ppl hit same target?? like in keep fights, RR or massive epic battles?? 0% damage for every1 above the 8th attacker....
no, their would be a minimum dmg the 8+ -> xxxx player would do.
so if 40 ppl hit same target you get 100+80+whatever+.........mindmg+mindmg+mindmg etc untill at some point when more ppl wont do more dmg, simply because there is no possibility for them to reach target. Imagine 50 ppl trying to hit one guy IRL. How many do you think would actually be able to reach him?

The first player unable to do dmg would recive a msg something like this: "Unable to hit target. The selected target is already getting she shit zerged out of him, take a number and calm down" =)
 

Ckiller

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
909
i see almost only good stuff with it since it prob should remove the assist trains and nomind mofos running around..

might bring back a little of the OLD style daoc to the game....
 

Herjulf

Banned
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
673
[e] said:
You should read entire post, think a little then reply m8. It's NOT the number of ppl, only the number of ppl on SAME target... also plz state WHY it's a stupid idea. Im thinking about sending this to Mythic once I get enough feedback with pros and cons.

Good:
1. slightly reduce the power of zerging a single target (most ppl agree its non-fun / problem as is today)
2. make grp vs grp fights slightly longer, more man-to-man, rather then /assist all on one untill dead, then next target.
3. more realistic, as more ppl on same target = less access to target, thus ppl cant use their full dmg potential.
4. duo-trio vs a solo will be more interesting - the solo might actually have a little chance.

Bad:
1.2.3.4.5 etc, help me out...
1. the idea of zerging the same target, same as armies attacking the same target is effect. The idea is to get down a single target so fast it looses HP to fast to get healed.

2. Fights last long enough as they are, longer fights then they are atm will only allow zergling whimps to get backup from the horde.

3. less relistic, more people on one target makes a target less able to defend itself, leaving it exposed to the enemy. parry one enemy leave your chest exposed for a CRIT hit.
As the game dont allow solid characters it is more relistic imo it remains as it is.

4. Defies all logic of grouping up. making a majority of the playerbase who wants tactic play amd playing with others unsatisfied.



The whole idea is ridicilous imo, Like making making a boulder 10 times heavier, just because 10 ppl helping eachother lift it.
 

Jaapi

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
468
Herjulf said:
4. Defies all logic of grouping up. making a majority of the playerbase who wants tactic play amd playing with others unsatisfied.
First of all, you're calling out for realism and tactics. Assist button lets u magically know who someone else is targeting, realism?
Hitting assist button, stick and styles = tactics?

Realism has nothing to do with it and actually that might make people to THINK about some real tactics other than the assist trains that go on out there.
 

Jox

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
723
[e] said:
What if, in melee, the dmg would be reduced with the number of players hitting the same target ? What do i mean? Well:

Lets say 3 ppl jump a solo player and all of the 3 are hitting same target, instead of 100% dmg from each player (300% total) the game engine would "nerf" the dmg to: 100% from first player, 80% from second, and 60 % from third player = totalt 240% from all 3 players, instead of the normal 300%. (these numbers are just an example - you get the idea of what im trying to say).

Why? Well to make things a little more interesting, players would have to take one target each to max their dmg potential, making fights longer, making that solo player have "a little better chance" etc.

Imagine a fight when many ppl would jump you. You would still be ganked BUT, first person can hit you with 100% because he has 100% access to you, second person a little less cuz the first person is in his way, hindering him from full access to you... 3:rd to 8:th persons all are "blocked" by the other persons so they cant "reach" thus not dealing full dmg to the target. The 8:th person might not do more then 10% of his max damage, cuz he has 7 ppl in the way of his "reach".

So if 8 ppl would jump a target player the formula would be something like this:
1. 100%
2. 80%
3. 60%
4. 40%
5. 30 %
6. 25%
7. 20%
8. 10%

Total: 365% dmg instead of the way things are now and 800%.

I personally would like to see this in game, what do you guys think?

PS. dont get too hung up on the numbers, the important thing is the "idea" itself - the numbers would have to be figured out with a little more thought. ds.

--------------------edit-----
It would be cool if the fights in daoc would be something like the fights in the movie Braveheart, like man-to-man all vs all (cuz everybody is important enough to be targeted). In that movie I didnt see 8 ppl running on first guy, killing him, running to next killing him, etc etc =)
Great idea me thinks.


The only problem would be that spanish infils would start to hit you for like 2 in damage :p
 

Ronin

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
80
non realistic ?

Herjulf said:
ERRRR

why?

thats the stupidest non realistic, totally out in thin air grasping for stupid straws idea i have ever heard.

Why would number of people in a grp affect dmg output, that is stupid.
The idea of grping up is getting stronger, not the other way around.

st000pid idea.
Lets say, "for example ofc" that i brought 7 ppl i know to your place...
And we start beating you up. 4-5 of my friends are raging in right/left hooks at the same time having rather regular shoulder messures, id say max 1 would do a powerfull blow on a vital spot so u fall. After first one hits you will probalby fall and therefore the other cant hit you in the spot they aimed for, and you will problably have your arms in motion on the way down. Then 3 of them have the best position beeing able to kick you while youre down. So 1 got a real punch on you, the others probably missed or hit non vital points. Now, while they are around you beating like crazy theres no way they can hit you full force on vital points while youre down there. Now i said there were 8 of us, the other 5 would need to "move" the 3 front men to actually have a chance to have a swipe at you. And all of this while its in heavy motion... This is a example of when youre not moving, do the math if youre moving around during the beating so that you always make sure the other 5-6 cant hit you cause you have 2-3 infront of you between them and yourself.
How the hell can you say its "unrealistic" when E says that 8 ppl cant hit you with max damage capability at the same time ? Have you ever seen/been in a RL fight ?

Imo E has a very good point, both realistic and good for game value.
 

Rain

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
135
Add so that you can't run THROUGH eachothers, and it'll be an entirely different game from the strategy point of view, imagine the tanks actually standing infront of the casters, Guarding instead of a skill.
 

Gordonax

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
1,095
Dumb idea. It would do nothing to stop assist trains. It would, however, make it easy for higher RR soloers to kill full groups. Totally against the idea of the game, too - this is a multiplayer game that encourages grouping with others to achieve common goals. Soloing is a part of the game, but to effectively nerf the whole idea of grouping in favour of soloers would kill DAoC and turn it into a shitty single player game.
 

Jaapi

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
468
Gordonax said:
Totally against the idea of the game, too - this is a multiplayer game that encourages grouping with others to achieve common goals.
I think you missed the point a little. Even if this was implemented to Daoc, it wouldn't change the common goals. Grouping with others would still be the main thing (atleast i fail to see how it could be changed), just the actual fights might change a little.
 

Chenuba

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
6
I got a much better idea then, collision detection. Then there's only room for x number of attackers on each target, where x will vary all after the "physical" size of the enemy/mob in question and noone will suffer from a damage-output penalty.
 

liloe

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
4,168
although the idea sounds fun to prevent assist trains, I don't see a reason to implement it. Ofc it might be unrealistic that 8 ppl can bash on one person, but there is no collision control, so 8 ppl can walk behind one target. That's the base problem. You have to draw a line between realism and game fun. It might not be fun for you to have an assist train on you, but all the healers would lough big time if either dmg was splitted betweentheir grpmembers or an assisttrain was hitting like small kiddies.
 

Jaapi

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
468
liloe said:
You have to draw a line between realism and game fun.
I think that in a game where elves fight trolls using magic ain't that realistic to begin with, so everything should be based in balancing the fun.
As all ideas it devides people to two groups so only way is to ask Mythic what they would like.

I like the idea in a way but don't think i would want to see it in the game. If assist trains are to be removed there are easier ways to do it gaining the same result in the end.
 

vintervargen

Banned
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
2,779
it would be great for longer fights, who wants these 20 sec assist train fights/pb-dead fights anyway?

solo i dont know, dragonfang / ap3 and such might be too overpowered, but there should definately be something negative about beeing 3+ at least hitting same target.
 

[TB] Benedictine

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
381
This is without doubt the worse idea since Olaf the Hairy, High King of The Vikings, ordered 1000 helmets with the horns on the inside ...

Erm, collision detection and remove /assist is the answer
 

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