Jews, & Adolf

[old.Tohtori]

You can convert to black too, just look at Eminem.

 

[Job]

Israel is a strongly secular country, my experience of jews is their religion is status and money, the orthodox jews are just plain batshit crazy.
I've told this one before, but back in my BT days I was working with a jewish lad and we had to pass a new cable from the cable chamber to the frame, I picked up a hammer and said 'I'll knock through the fire stopping and you go down the gas chamber with the cable and pass it up'
I stood in silence for a second and said 'I mean cable chamber'
He just grinned.

 

[TdC]

I don't think you can say "Jewish Atheist". In that light I'd have to call myself a Catholic Agnostic, because my parents did have me baptized for some odd reason, and while I do not practice I have never had myself cast out or whatever the priests call it.

My point is that you can't say Jews come from Jewland. A Jew from Israel is an Israeli. A Jew from Holland is a Dutch citizen. I could choose to become a Jew just like I could choose to become Dutch but I can't choose to change ethnic group. I can't be black or asian or oriental. I partially agree with your point though: if I were to become Dutch, I'd find it hard to believe that I'd be just as "Dutch" as a Dutchman who was born and raised in Holland for 800 generations. Still, like I said at the beginning of this paragraph, since there is no Jewland what you get is a bunch of people that have been practicing a religion for a good while. I don't know why they are referred to as Jews. I would personally certainly take offence if someone referred to me as a Christian.

I know exactly one Jew: a young lady. She refers to herself as Jewish (she's Dutch). I'll ask her what she thinks and let you know.

 

[fettoken]

Preferably point her to this thread.

 

[DaGaffer]

I don't think you can say "Jewish Atheist". In that light I'd have to call myself a Catholic Agnostic, because my parents did have me baptized for some odd reason, and while I do not practice I have never had myself cast out or whatever the priests call it.

My point is that you can't say Jews come from Jewland. A Jew from Israel is an Israeli. A Jew from Holland is a Dutch citizen. I could choose to become a Jew just like I could choose to become Dutch but I can't choose to change ethnic group. I can't be black or asian or oriental. I partially agree with your point though: if I were to become Dutch, I'd find it hard to believe that I'd be just as "Dutch" as a Dutchman who was born and raised in Holland for 800 generations. Still, like I said at the beginning of this paragraph, since there is no Jewland what you get is a bunch of people that have been practicing a religion for a good while. I don't know why they are referred to as Jews. I would personally certainly take offence if someone referred to me as a Christian.

I know exactly one Jew: a young lady. She refers to herself as Jewish (she's Dutch). I'll ask her what she thinks and let you know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism

 

[TdC]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism

cheers, I'll also ask her what she thinks of that.

From that article I learn that Karl Marx is a Jew but raised in the Lutheran flavour of Christianity. So out of curiosity, what would one call him? A Lutheran Jew? I admit my curiosity in this is purely driven by my current school semester's fasination with putting labels on friggin everything though.

 

[DaGaffer]

This is the point I keep trying to make, "Jewishness" is as much a cultural construct as it is a religion. If you don't have a country for 2000 years, then you're going to need a strong cultural identity as a substitute if you're not going to be absorbed into your host cultures. There are millions of secular jews who are no more likely to believe in God than any post-Enlightenment European, but still happily cleave to jewish traditions.

 

[ECA]

I just had a thought, wouldn't this thread title be a great pub name?

 

[fettoken]

I just had a thought, wouldn't this thread title be a great pub name?

Actually, i thought of Jews, Adolf & Sons. There has to be a correct theme to all this, but somewhat subtle.

 

[Scouse]

its an ethnic-cultural-religious soup that defies simplistic analysis despite the best efforts of certain people to portray it that way.

No it isn't. It's very simple to analyse IMO.

Without the religion it all goes away. They can marry who they like, they can be with who they like, their typical phenotypic traits become assimilated into the rest of society - we both gain from the addition of a wider group of genetic material that is beginning to slowly leak into our society anyway as their religion starts to lose relevance amongst them. The artificially imposed cultural borders begin to melt.

All because of the erosion of the importance of their religion in their lives.

there are more than a few Jewish atheists

There are more than a few christian atheists, right? I mean - people who don't believe in god but put themselves down as christian in the census?

Jews who don't believe in judaeism but have jewish family, jewish friends and live a reasonably jewish lifestyle are just like catholics who don't believe in catholicism, but have catholic friends, catholic families and live a reasonably christian lifestyle.


The only difference with jews is that they're discouraged from mixing - so their culture and lifestyle is more strongly intertwined. But to say that they're a different ethnicity is simply pandering to zionists tbfh.

 

[DaGaffer]

No it isn't. It's very simple to analyse IMO.

Without the religion it all goes away. .

Except it self-evidently doesn't. Woody Allen is a Jew. He's also an atheist. Guess which cultural signifier he (and the rest of the fucking world) identify him with first?