It's the end of the world as we know it...(maybe)

[Jonaldo]

They didn't migrate to the areas with less dense tree population, unlike the others who learned to live in different climes.




(I made that up)




(it probably shows)




(probably makes me look stupid also)




(you're all bastards!)

 

[Tom]

There was a BBC documentary recently about the evolution of man, it described in detail how the original theory of a single line of evolution leading straight to Homo Sapiens was wrong.

The latest theory is that we're the only surviving 'branch' of a whole tree of ape descendents. We're not related to Neanderthals, apart from a shared ancestry.

I read a book recently by Greg Bear - 'Darwin's Radio' which was really good, and came up with some nice theories about the future of human evolution. For those who might want to read it, I won't reveal any spoilers, but its a great read (its science fiction).

 

[Xavier]

You're making the mistake of assuming that, because it would be a black hole, that it would immediately possess a huge gravitational force. It would be absolutely tiny. Think about it. It can't possibly be any more than the sum of its parts, and its parts would be no more than the mass of the particles used to create it. All that it would be able to do would be to swallow anything that came into contact with it. Since it would not have the required mass to actually exert any gravitational forces of any magnitude, it would just sit there, suspended, doing nothing.

Also, if subatomic particles can be accelerated to near-lightspeed velocities by magnetic fields, then why also shouldn't this be applicable to an incredibly small black hole?

No Tom it's you who seems to be forgetting the fact that at the surface of the earth everything is subject to the same gravitational pull - by the great lug of rock we stand on. There wouldn't have to be any atmosphere surrounding it for it to move towards earths center of gravity, gravity is caused by matter, not transmitted. You can't isolate even the tiniest of black holes unless you were able to create a matter-free environment (i.e. vacuum) in an area with no gravitational differential. The closest you'd get to that on earth is at it's core, somewhere we'd never be able to venture as all known substances burn/melt long before they reach the temperatures estimated to be at the center of our planet.

In sinking towards the center of the earth, a black whole would consume matter and thus gain mass exponentially as it travels, we wouldn't even know about the accident by the time the earths crust fell in on itself.

As to containing a black hole in a magnetic field, seeing as we know that any phenomena which exhibits the properties expected in a black hole can effect the path of photons, chances are all or any electromagnetic radiation will feed, not restrain said phenomena.

 

[Tom]

As to containing a black hole in a magnetic field, seeing as we know that any phenomena which exhibits the properties expected in a black hole can effect the path of photons, chances are all or any electromagnetic radiation will feed, not restrain said phenomena.

My point was to illustrate that black holes are not cosmic hoovers. If our sun became a black hole, the Earth's orbit would remain unchanged.

I'm not sure how magnetism works, but I'm fairly confident that it has no mass.

 

[gmloki]

My point was to illustrate that black holes are not cosmic hoovers. If our sun became a black hole, the Earth's orbit would remain unchanged.
.

Are you sure of the Physics on this Tom. If the Sun was to turn into a black hole it's mass would change. The earths orbit around the sun is directly linked to the mass of the sun and our distance from it

 

[Xavier]

Indeed.

And if it didn't suck us in, the sun turning into a black hole would mean we'd freeze to death pretty damn quick.

Xav.

 

[Jonaldo]

Just wrap up warm and have a cup o soup and a nice flask of tea.

 

[Ekydus]

Unless I am mistaken, Einstein's theory of gravity, is that the mass of an object acts similarly to the weight of an object; in the respect that it causes the fabric of space time to be weighted down. It was believed by Einstein that smaller objects are literally riding the bowls, that are created from the mass of larger objects. So, theoretically if the Sun did become a supa nova, apart from the dying and such, Earth would eventually spiral off course and travel until it hit another cosmic bowl; however it would take billions and billions of years before the Earth once again regained a fixed orbit, by which time we'd be long gone and chances are life can no longer be supported. Oh and the fact we'd probably blow into little bits ourselves if we hit another planet... If our Sun does blow up, we are indeed screwed.

 

[dysfunction]

If the sun gets bigger or smaller by any noticeable degree we will be burned/frozen to death long before the sun explodes, becomes a black hole or the earth goes hurtling off its orbit.

 

[Frizz]

Small note: The Sun does not have enough mass in order to eventually become a Black Hole. Even if it did, it would take an insanely long time before that happens, something like 5 billion years. Really there's no point discussing it.

 

[Tom]

Are you sure of the Physics on this Tom. If the Sun was to turn into a black hole it's mass would change. The earths orbit around the sun is directly linked to the mass of the sun and our distance from it

Yes. If our sun became a black hole (which is an impossibility), its mass would not change, only its volume would be different. It would have the same mass, but would be a heck of a lot smaller. The orbit of all the bodies in our solar system would be unaffected by anything but the lack of radiation from the sun, which only really affects the Oort cloud.

I've been looking around the net on the theories of magnetism, and it is mind bending stuff. People talking about photons having no effective mass (hence their ability to travel at c[/B], but photons with momentary energy creating magnetism. Its all beyond me I'm afraid

 

[Cyfr]

Our own Milky Way is reckoned to have one at its centre, although we can't see it, being so close to the edge of our galaxy.
.

We can't see it because all the light is pulled in with the gravitational pull..

 

[Scouse]

Unless I am mistaken, {insertstuffhere}.

Yeah. You're mistaken.

Einstein never had a theory of Gravity. That was Newton. Einstein came up with the theory of relativity.

The "bowls" thing you're referring to is a mix up because you've probably seen a visual representation of the bending of space-time by large-massed objects (which is usually represented as marbles/planets rolling around on some sort of "space time fabric" - bending the fabric as they go). It's an inadequate representation.



As for others assertions that electromagnetic waves have no mass - we tend to treat them as such but they do have mass - even light weighs something.....

 

[Scouse]

The orbit of all the bodies in our solar system would be unaffected by anything but the lack of radiation from the sun, which only really affects the Oort cloud.

Why the Oort cloud? Of all the things in our solar system to be affected by anything from the sun the Oort cloud would be the least affected due to it's distance from it.....


(For those without a passing interest in astronomy - think of the Oort cloud as a massive cloud containing matter that was left over during the creation of our solar system (hunks of rock, hydrogen gas, other shit) and now surrounds our solar system far beyond the orbits of neptune and pluto....)...

 

[dysfunction]

Yes. If our sun became a black hole (which is an impossibility), its mass would not change, only its volume would be different. It would have the same mass, but would be a heck of a lot smaller. The orbit of all the bodies in our solar system would be unaffected by anything but the lack of radiation from the sun, which only really affects the Oort cloud.

I think you are wrong there.

From what I can gather if the sun did become a black hole, its mass may not change but its density would increase. Its gravitational force would also increase.

 

[Tom]

The Oort cloud is where it is because it is comprised of lots of stuff that has been pushed out by solar radiation (mostly dust).

Dys, if the sun became a black hole, its mass would remain the same, its density would increase (because it would shrink to something smaller than the size of our Earth), but its gravitational pull would remain constant.

For its gravitational force to increase, its mass would also have to increase.

/edit: I should have said that the Oort cloud is mostly comets and debris, but it does contain lots of dust pushed out by the sun's radiation.

 

[Tom]

As for others assertions that electromagnetic waves have no mass - we tend to treat them as such but they do have mass - even light weighs something.....

Photons have no mass. They do exhibit energy, and momentum, but in theory only have mass when travelling at speeds of less than c.

If light did have mass, then it could not travel at c.

 

[Insane]

a right royal mind fuck imho

love how people suddenly become quantium physicists within a matter of minutes and can discuss at length such mind-numbing equasions that would make deciding between a bacon butty sandwich and one of those fancy ham 'n cheese toasties they make at coffee shops in that strange bread

 

[Will]

The Oort cloud is where it is because it is comprised of lots of stuff that has been pushed out by solar radiation (mostly dust).

Dys, if the sun became a black hole, its mass would remain the same, its density would increase (because it would shrink to something smaller than the size of our Earth), but its gravitational pull would remain constant.

For its gravitational force to increase, its mass would also have to increase.

/edit: I should have said that the Oort cloud is mostly comets and debris, but it does contain lots of dust pushed out by the sun's radiation.

The mass would increase as everything passing the event horizon got sucked in. Even light has a mass, so the pull would increase, and keep on increasing.

The whole light/mass thing is one of the joys of wave/particle duality. The speed of light just is. I don't understand it in much depth, but I know enough to know I don't want to look into it too deeply. It is one of the bits of Brief History of Time I couldn't get my head around.

Remember, if the dust was pushed out with solar radiation, then light (which is e-m radiation), must have mass.

 

[Tom]

I take on board your point about light being sucked in, but consider:

The density of the black hole is massive, and its total volume quite small. Its gravitational pull has not increased. It is merely localised. In that way, it is able to pull in light that is travelling close to its centre of gravity, but AFAIK there really isn't any net difference, because light that would normally impact on the surface of the sun just travels straight through the (now empty) space that the sun once occupied. Any object on a close orbit with the sun, would remain on that orbit, unaffected.

Try to imagine it as not being a black hole, but an incredibly dense sun with the same mass as our own. If the sun shrank, it wouldn't have a stronger gravitational pull. Just because we're talking about a black hole, doesn't mean that it can escape the laws of physics on this side of its event horizon.

Dust is pushed out with solar radiation, but only a tiny amount of the sun's radiation is on the electromagnetic spectrum. Much of the radiation is (I think, getting to the end of my limited knowledge on this subject now) charged particles, heavy nuclei, etc.

 

[Scouse]

There's so much in this thread I want to discuss but my fingers are tired, I'm not pedantic enough and I'm generally too world-weary to discuss at the moment.


Hmmmm. Depression??? I'd better go out and get laid.....

 

[Wij]

Hmmmm. Depression??? I'd better go out and get laid.....

pr0n4tehwin \o/

 

[Doh_boy]

There's so much in this thread I want to discuss but my fingers are tired, I'm not pedantic enough and I'm generally too world-weary to discuss at the moment.


Hmmmm. Depression??? I'd better go out and get laid.....

Does this cheer you up?

Has some swearing

 

[Scouse]

Does this cheer you up?

After watching that I'm off to the hospital to be lobotomised!!




Happy retard time for me!