News It's a double dip

[ECA]

And you know what fucks me off even more? It's that Labours sheer economic incompetence robs us of an actual opposition party worth voting for.

If I lived in the US I'd be voting democrat all day, because over there the left is the voice of fiscal sanity ( compared to the republicans ).

 

[cHodAX]

Let me also ask - and this is the only non rhetorical question in my response - What do you want to do about our massive structural deficit? Do you think even with 2-3% growth/year it's going to magically vanish?

There's no magic let's cut vat and stimulate growth by saving 10-12bn a year wand, it's a fucking figment of ed and eds imagination and would be like pissing upwind of a housefire, good luck with that.

I will throw it right back to you. How are the current plans in any way shape or form going to reduce the structural deficit? The reduction only starts to happen should we achieve growth and cannot begin without it, that is highlighted by the current numbers where even after cuts we are having to borrow more than a year ago. Without strong growth combined with strong cuts we cannot reverse the trend can we?

So, you start at the begining and stimulate your economy, when growth takes hold you start to trim the fat a steady pace but you do with rationally over a decade so as not to harm growth, all the while encouraging new enterprise and innovation. if you pull the trick off you end with the scenario of 1940 U.S.A. where they had effectively dug out a huge hole by investing in infrastructure whilst encouraging private enterprise. The mistake this government made was not to get a growth plan in place and on it's feet first, instead they jumped into austerity mode promising massive cuts which only served to tighten cash flow in the private sector even further and strangle and chance of growth.

It is a plain as the nose on your face and it has nothing to do with party politics, to dig yourself out of a hole you need a shovel and not a knife.

 

[mr.Blacky]

You might need a shovel but first you need to own one.
Comparisons with the pre-WW2 American economy does not really count, build what infrastructure?
With globalization the world is not the same.
As for which party is to blame? well I think both parties have enough to blame them for for the next century.

As for reducing the structural deficit you do not need growth (is better!) but even 0 growth can work. Still this generation will suffer for all the money the previous ones spent and spent and spent.

 

[cHodAX]

You might need a shovel but first you need to own one.
Comparisons with the pre-WW2 American economy does not really count, build what infrastructure?
With globalization the world is not the same.
As for which party is to blame? well I think both parties have enough to blame them for for the next century.

As for reducing the structural deficit you do not need growth (is better!) but even 0 growth can work. Still this generation will suffer for all the money the previous ones spent and spent and spent.

New roads, be it toll or public. Massive overhaul of the railway network, investment in airports, national grid and renewable power generation, improve transport links into all the major cities, also a new programme of building for social housing and incentives for first time buyers in the private sector.

All of those stimulate the economy, help the money flow and create new jobs. It is exactly what FDR did, he created a climate where lending became viable and profitable again but also the conditions where people could loan with less fear and more opportunity to create small businesses.

Back to structural debt, the levels we are running cannot be seriously reduced without massive damage to all of the public services which will erode what little confidence remains with the public who are already terrified of what comes next and scared people people do not spend, not just damaging growth but forcing decline. For that reason we have to manage the debt reductions whilst growing the economy and bringing in extra tax revenue. It will not work any other way, I said it two years ago and I stand by it.

 

[Tuthmes]

Is tea baggin a woman with a big mouth considered as a double dip aswell btw?

 

[cHodAX]

Is tea baggin a woman with a big mouth considered as a double dip aswell btw?

In some states it is a legal requirement.

 

[Raven]

I am not sure I actually care any more tbh. Does it actually mean anything?

 

[cHodAX]

I am not sure I actually care any more tbh. Does it actually mean anything?

Sadly yes, that said it is fucking tiring, I think we could all use an upturn at the moment.

 

[Raven]

I think we should just fuck it all off. It's all based on money that may or may not exist and growth growth growth.

 

[cHodAX]

I think we should just fuck it all off. It's all based on money that may or may not exist and growth growth growth.

A fresh start would be nice, the current system doesn't work and never will, as for growth well it isn't even sustainable as we are and higher growth just means we rape the planet for resources whilst polluting even faster.

 

[cHodAX]

I think we should just fuck it all off. It's all based on money that may or may not exist and growth growth growth.

A fresh start would be nice, the current system doesn't work and never will, as for growth well it isn't even sustainable as we are and higher growth just means we rape the planet for resources whilst polluting even faster.

 

[Wij]

So, you start at the begining and stimulate your economy, when growth takes hold you start to trim the fat a steady pace but you do with rationally over a decade so as not to harm growth, all the while encouraging new enterprise and innovation. if you pull the trick off you end with the scenario of 1940 U.S.A. where they had effectively dug out a huge hole by investing in infrastructure whilst encouraging private enterprise. The mistake this government made was not to get a growth plan in place and on it's feet first, instead they jumped into austerity mode promising massive cuts which only served to tighten cash flow in the private sector even further and strangle and chance of growth.

Actually I call (semi) bullshit there. President Hoover had already tried the capital investment project route. Hint: the Hoover Dam is not named after J Edgar FDR's New Deal was not a major change in policy, just an evolution from before. At the end of the day the world economy had re-adjusted after the Depression and WW2 gave it an excuse to believe in investing. The change in mindset was the deciding factor as it always is. This has a direct corollary with the situation today. If the opinion of the markets was that investing was the right thing to do rather than austerity then it would be the right thing to do. But it isn't so it isn't.

Random FDR question No 1:

Without Googling: What was Eleanor Roosevelt's name before she married FDR?

 

[TdC]

Rigby?

 

[Wij]

Rigby?

Try again.

 

[DaGaffer]

Try again.

Wasn't it...Roosevelt? They were second cousins I think.

 

[Raven]

Bike

 

[Wij]

Wasn't it...Roosevelt? They were second cousins I think.

5th cousin, once removed, and niece of Teddy.

 

[Scouse]

Scouse probably

Wasn't me.

Wish it was tho...

 

[cHodAX]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19329758

The UK government unexpectedly had to borrow money in July, traditionally a good month for tax receipts.

Borrowing to cover the gap between spending and revenue was £600m in July, the Office for National Statistics said. There was a surplus of £2.8bn in the same month a year earlier. The Treasury blamed disappointing corporation tax receipts.

Labour said the government's efforts to try to cut the deficit had "choked off the recovery".

Analysts suggest the government could end up borrowing about £30bn more than last year, when official forecasts had suggested borrowing would fall this year.

There we go kids, no growth = lower tax returns after you factor infation.

 

[Jupitus]

Some analysts still think we might come in under borrowing target though... still, pretty worrying...

 

[cHodAX]

Some analysts still think we might come in under borrowing target though... still, pretty worrying...

Not anymore bud, they are all revising upwards after a terrible month of results.

"We're going backwards not forwards," said economist Alan Clarke of Scotia Bank.
"It's going to increase pressure on the government to get back on track either by tightening fiscal policy further to make up for the lost ground, or loosening policy in the hope that stronger economic growth improves the public finances."

 

[MYstIC G]

You cannot have infinate growth for fucks sake.

 

[cHodAX]

You cannot have infinate growth for fucks sake.

The same old line but the situation isn't improving despite government promises to the contrary. As I said two years ago and was shot down, you need growth before you start making cuts or otherwise you strangle the economy and actually lower income whilst increasing expenditure. The numbers do not lie and they are confirming what I said at the start, they have spooked the economy, no one is spending and the growth we should be seeing isn't happening because people are scared.

 

[MYstIC G]

The economy will move again when it's ready. Whatever they do, either way, will do fuck all.

It's like pushing your finger into a bowl of water and taking it back out, you make some ripples but in the long run, you do fuck all of use.

 

[Jupitus]

Tom Vosa, an analyst at National Australia Bank, said although the monthly numbers were "terrible", "the trend so far isn't disastrous".

"Unless we see a further fall in revenue, the government could possibly still have a small undershoot for the fiscal year as a whole."

 

[- English -]

The same old line but the situation isn't improving despite government promises to the contrary. As I said two years ago and was shot down, you need growth before you start making cuts or otherwise you strangle the economy and actually lower income whilst increasing expenditure. The numbers do not lie and they are confirming what I said at the start, they have spooked the economy, no one is spending and the growth we should be seeing isn't happening because people are scared.

I love how you slag off everything to do with the economy when it was your favored government that dropped us in bigger shit than we ought to be in. Oh and the numbers don't lie about those 13 years from boom to bust.

 

[cHodAX]

I love how you slag off everything to do with the economy when it was your favored government that dropped us in bigger shit than we ought to be in. Oh and the numbers don't lie about those 13 years from boom to bust.

English, go and read some of my previous posts please. You have drawn a conclusion that is not accurate, many times I have stated that Brown left us in the shit. This thread is about where we are now and the mistakes this current government is making, instead of hiding behind attacks on the mistakes Labour made how about you chip in on why we are in a deeper hole now than we were two years ago, or why the government's austerity drive has not delivered any kind of recovery despite promises to the contrary?

 

[- English -]

They have delivered.

Interest rates have been kept low
We also haven't been downgraded like Greece etc
We have paid 1/4 of the debt back Labour left us with in 2 years
We have better employment figures
Unemployment is down

I think the tories have done a good job so far to come in and sort the mess out, things are on the mend, although it takes more than 2 years to sort labours 13 out, and also it doesn't help with the Libs in who leak everything to the press.

 

[- English -]

Also borrowing for 13 years gave a false impression of growth, and then Brown sold of billions on private pensions to hide labours inability to pay for wars abroad

 

[Litmus]

No matter what happens, i just can't see how any of developed counties can ever pay their debts off, even if there income was the same and outgoings some how 0. It would still take years to pay off.


If it was average Joe on the streets like me and you, the bailiffs would of been around along time ago.