News It's a double dip

cHodAX

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
19,742
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17836624

Official now but knew it was coming for a few years, infact I had quite a few rows in other threads, essentially it was a case of needing to reduce a drastically inflated defecit whilst keeping the economy stimulated enough to show consistent growth. The cuts were too much too soon and now we are at the point where a large portion of the population is too scared to spend the money they actually do have nevermind obtaining credit they can't afford. The sad fact is that the big players in Europe and much of the world are well out of recession showing reasonable growth levels, we are heading in the opposite direction and will only become less competitive.

Nice to see we can afford to give the IMF £10 billion though whilst letting the banks owned by the taxpayer continue to hand out obscene bonuses rather than pay down the debt they owe to the nation.
 

cHodAX

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
19,742
Those 50kg crates of JellyBabies are going to kill the U.K. economy unless you pay up!
 

Raven

Brrrrr!
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
37,794
A whopping 0.2%

BBC scare mongering

Caption under the photo of some suit has equal meaning as 0.2% "That aggregate figure is a result of differing experience in varying sectors" ie. bullshit.
 

Wij

I am a FH squatter
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
13,931
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17836624

Official now but knew it was coming for a few years, infact I had quite a few rows in other threads, essentially it was a case of needing to reduce a drastically inflated defecit whilst keeping the economy stimulated enough to show consistent growth. The cuts were too much too soon and now we are at the point where a large portion of the population is too scared to spend the money they actually do have nevermind obtaining credit they can't afford. The sad fact is that the big players in Europe and much of the world are well out of recession showing reasonable growth levels, we are heading in the opposite direction and will only become less competitive.

Nice to see we can afford to give the IMF £10 billion though whilst letting the banks owned by the taxpayer continue to hand out obscene bonuses rather than pay down the debt they owe to the nation.
OMG - It's Ed Miliband !!!
 

Aoami

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
8,904
sounds like either

a) sex move

b) confectionary from the 70s
 

TdC

Trem's hunky sex love muffin
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
30,693
I've never understood why an enconomy (or a company, or anything like that for that matter) has to "grow". What's the harm in being stable? Why exactly is selling exactly as many products as you did last year bad?
 

caLLous

I am a FH squatter
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
16,240
But it's 0.2% worse!! IT'S NOT STABLE!!1

[/media]
 

Cadelin

FH is my second home
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
2,510
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17836624

Official now but knew it was coming for a few years, infact I had quite a few rows in other threads, essentially it was a case of needing to reduce a drastically inflated defecit whilst keeping the economy stimulated enough to show consistent growth. The cuts were too much too soon and now we are at the point where a large portion of the population is too scared to spend the money they actually do have nevermind obtaining credit they can't afford. The sad fact is that the big players in Europe and much of the world are well out of recession showing reasonable growth levels, we are heading in the opposite direction and will only become less competitive.

Nice to see we can afford to give the IMF £10 billion though whilst letting the banks owned by the taxpayer continue to hand out obscene bonuses rather than pay down the debt they owe to the nation.
Do you know about what fraction of the cuts have actually been implemented yet? The statistic I have from my private eye is ~25% of spending cuts implemented so far, although 84% of spending rises have been. How can you say 'too much too soon'? There was only a 6 billion gap between what labour and the conservatives proposed. Given that those cuts haven't actually been implemented how can you say this was the cause of the double dip?

Also how can you say the big players in Europe and much of the world are well out of recession? A quick google search reveal this:
http://www.ecb.int/press/pr/date/2012/html/pr120314.en.html
Germany, Italy and the EU as a whole shrank in the last quarter of last year. I couldn't find a list of this quarter but under no definition is it 'well out'. China, India and most developing nations were never actually in a recession. The US has indeed sorted its problems but that's about it.
 

Tom

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
15,991
I've never understood why an enconomy (or a company, or anything like that for that matter) has to "grow". What's the harm in being stable? Why exactly is selling exactly as many products as you did last year bad?
You want faster computers, don't you? More efficient power stations, better cars, nicer houses, less waste, etc? You can't progress technologically without a growing economy.
 

Tom

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
15,991
The sad fact is that the big players in Europe and much of the world are well out of recession showing reasonable growth levels, we are heading in the opposite direction and will only become less competitive.
Which is to be expected considering those countries entered recession before we did.
 

TdC

Trem's hunky sex love muffin
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
30,693
You want faster computers, don't you? More efficient power stations, better cars, nicer houses, less waste, etc? You can't progress technologically without a growing economy.
I don't believe that technological advances are driven purely by the fact that a company believes it must grow economically. At least, I hope it isn't so. Maybe I'm turning into a hippy.
 

Raven

Brrrrr!
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
37,794
They aren't.

Shareholder dividends are though, which is all they care about. More profit year in year out, cutting everything out in the desperate profit grab. Only to have to spend billions a few years later to keep up, aka Tesco...or nose diving aka a lot of companies.

Stability is better than too fast growth.
 

Raven

Brrrrr!
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
37,794
Nice to see we can afford to give the IMF £10 billion though whilst letting the banks owned by the taxpayer continue to hand out obscene bonuses rather than pay down the debt they owe to the nation.
Also, most of the big bonuses are contractual. Either pay them or get sued basically.
 

Tom

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
15,991
I don't believe that technological advances are driven purely by the fact that a company believes it must grow economically. At least, I hope it isn't so. Maybe I'm turning into a hippy.
Well if a company can't fund research because it isn't reinvesting its profits to grow, how on earth do you expect to have new toys to play with?
 

Job

The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
20,191
The growth rate since the start of the industrial revolution (Thank you Britain, np, don't mention it), means that by now we should all be millionaires and guess what! We are in relative terms.
I'm just a grunt and I've got 3 cars and a motorbike, go abroad on holiday and own my own house.
 

Scouse

HERO!
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
27,009
Wow. People in olden days didn't have homes?

I'm pretty sure in olden days they also went abroad on holidays to the middle east to kill muslims.

;)
 

Zenith.UK

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
2,913
I've never understood why an enconomy (or a company, or anything like that for that matter) has to "grow". What's the harm in being stable? Why exactly is selling exactly as many products as you did last year bad?
I've often wondered about the same thing.
My opinion is that you can't sustain growth year on year indefinitely. You will hit a limit eventually, and that's when the economy starts shrinking.

This video (#3 out of a series of 8) is one of the most important videos anyone should see. The figures he quotes are related to populations, but the basic arithmetic of growth can be applied to economics as well. The bit I'm talking about starts at about 3m 30s.
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFyOw9IgtjY&feature=bf_next&list=SP6A1FD147A45EF50D


"We are at 11:59"
 

Embattle

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,347
Didn't someone else ram this old fart down our throats a while ago?
 

TdC

Trem's hunky sex love muffin
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
30,693
Well if a company can't fund research because it isn't reinvesting its profits to grow, how on earth do you expect to have new toys to play with?
I didn't say that a company should or should not do something with it's profits; I just don't see why when I say that I expect to make 10% profits based on market data figures which are completely bogus and and ooh arr I make 8% in reality, then I suck because I fell short of my expectations while making a profit based on complete guesstimation. I don't see why I have to sell more produce next time I measure my stats or be viewed as a fail and that this can actually effect the worth of my company (which is still making a profit, ooo). I also don't understand what I had to learn in my first year of school, which was about product lifecycles and why some are short and others are long, and that with short ones you have to keep innovating your product or you won't be able to keep it in it's maturity phase to recap your investments.

I guess bottom line is I think this "growth or die" idea is completely irrational. In fact, I think that the idea is going to kill our commercial environment entirely. As an example I give you the price of my house: I own (well the bank does) a house which costs the equivalent of half a million of yesterday's money. It's still the same house as yesterday though, and it was built for yesterday's prices. Since my house is a day older than the last metric, why hasn't it gotten cheaper? For the amount of money my house is worth -allegedly- when I try to buy it, I would expect a frigging palace but it's just an apartment, and when I try to sell this simple apartment nobody can afford it despite all this so called growth that everyone's enjoying. It's great that I can buy a super 3d flatscreen plasma for next to nothing, but it kind of sucks that I can't afford a place to put it. Yay, growth!
 

rynnor

Rockhound
Moderator
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
9,353
Its a blip - the economy is pretty flat till world demand picks up but its still an enormous figure and we are by no means in any real trouble - the more important indicator is unemployment which is going down.

Labour must be pissed that the apocalypse they hoped for isnt going to happen - makes it a lot tougher for them to fight the next election by which time we'll have had growth for a while.
 

ECA

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
9,245
By the way - you should never double dip in a social setting all your mouth bacteria from the corner of that doritos is going into the sauce and being shared with everyone else.

Don't double dip, it's majorly gross.
 

Reno

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
967
By the way - you should never double dip in a social setting all your mouth bacteria from the corner of that doritos is going into the sauce and being shared with everyone else.

Don't double dip, it's majorly gross.
George does not agree!
 

cHodAX

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
19,742
Finally people are starting to wake up...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/city-news/lord-sugar-says-george-osborne-1172098

The economy has flatlined, double dipped and is now bouncing along the bottom. The entire economic stimulus plan is a £10 billion rail investment that won't actually bear fruit for at least 5 years. As Sugar said, we need to get VAT down, people spending and stimulate the economy to create new jobs. It's fucking simple, all cuts and no stimulus does not work and NEVER has. FDR showed the way in the 1930's but the current government are neither brave nor smart enough to make the hard choices.
 

ECA

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
9,245
The current government?

Which government was it that gave billions to the banks that we could have used on infrastructure stimulus instead - but didn't because their banking regulation was laxer than their fat arses, which government inherited a surplus and left with a massive debt putting growth on the public sector credit card and inflating the public sector instead of the private?
Which government was it that inflated the public sector and to pay for it introduced student tuition fees?


FML.

Yes let's vote labour in so we can become a permanent debt society like America and be equally as fucked.

Let's vote for Ed sucked the trade unions cocks to get elected and ed I agree with everything gordon brown said and did balls, for round 2 of fucking the country up.

Do you actually not understand how FUCKED labour left the country?
Do you not understand that when you accept Gordon Browns "it was global economic crash innit, not my fault blud" argument that you then have to accept that the current global economic situation plays a part in our current outlook?
Do you really not see america on a tipping point around this election, and europe trying to kick the economic crisis down the road accepting 30 years of economic stagnation as a cost for not being politically embarrassed about what a terrible fucking idea the euro was rather than accepting reality and think "hmm our biggest trading partners are both pretty fucked right now, no wonder business is down".



Let me also ask - and this is the only non rhetorical question in my response - What do you want to do about our massive structural deficit? Do you think even with 2-3% growth/year it's going to magically vanish?

There's no magic let's cut vat and stimulate growth by saving 10-12bn a year wand, it's a fucking figment of ed and eds imagination and would be like pissing upwind of a housefire, good luck with that.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top Bottom