Religion IS

[Wij]

Long read:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Explains the differences between Al Quaeda and ISIS and what their aims and theologies are.

 

[CorNokZ]

Will read tomorrow. Thanks for posting

 

[Scouse]

Death Cult. Like all religions.

 

[Scouse]

Good healthcare tho

 

[Moriath]

Good healthcare tho

Lol

Al Q are moderate compared to IS imo. Not read yet but will do tomorrow

 

[Gwadien]

Can we stop trying to find justification for war, and just do it already?

Even then, it's not enough, you can destroy a terrorist group that has a screwed up perspective of the Ko'ran, sure it's hard, but it can be done.

Something that is impossible to destroy is to revive something which the Ko'ran and history show's isn't even that unrealistic; a caliphate.

The fact that they're taking the Ko'ran totally from a medieval perspective and making it attractive to even the most moderate of Muslim, not as a terrorist-group that mercilessly kill its enemies to get across political messages, but 'defends' their religion from the evil imams that water it down, and from the west that seeks to destroy Islam.

More needs to be done to understand Islam, not play whack-a-mole with it.

 

[Scouse]

a terrorist group that has an alternative but equally-valid perspective of the Ko'ran,

...

 

[Raven]

Can we stop trying to find justification for war, and just do it already?

Even then, it's not enough, you can destroy a terrorist group that has a screwed up perspective of the Ko'ran, sure it's hard, but it can be done.

Something that is impossible to destroy is to revive something which the Ko'ran and history show's isn't even that unrealistic; a caliphate.

The fact that they're taking the Ko'ran totally from a medieval perspective and making it attractive to even the most moderate of Muslim, not as a terrorist-group that mercilessly kill its enemies to get across political messages, but 'defends' their religion from the evil imams that water it down, and from the west that seeks to destroy Islam.

More needs to be done to understand Islam, not play whack-a-mole with it.

We understand Muslims perfectly fine. Many of them are not trying to kill everyone that doesn't follow their warped version of a book. Its way beyond that now, it has nothing to do with religion but power and fear.

 

[Wij]

We understand Muslims perfectly fine. Many of them are not trying to kill everyone that doesn't follow their warped version of a book. Its way beyond that now, it has nothing to do with religion but power and fear.

That's kinda the point of the article. It has everything to do with religion.

The different interpretations of Islam aren't about whether it is permissible to behead apostates and such. They are about when it is permissible. IS theologians think the conditions are right now. Other scholars think they are not right now but they can't claim they are never permissible. It's right there in the Quran and well-trusted Hadith.

It is, without doubt, one of the most violent interpretations of Islam seen for centuries but it is still an interpretation of Islam. The reasons that IS does the things it does are religious reasons.

 

[Wij]

Can we stop trying to find justification for war, and just do it already?

Even then, it's not enough, you can destroy a terrorist group that has a screwed up perspective of the Ko'ran, sure it's hard, but it can be done.

Something that is impossible to destroy is to revive something which the Ko'ran and history show's isn't even that unrealistic; a caliphate.

The fact that they're taking the Ko'ran totally from a medieval perspective and making it attractive to even the most moderate of Muslim, not as a terrorist-group that mercilessly kill its enemies to get across political messages, but 'defends' their religion from the evil imams that water it down, and from the west that seeks to destroy Islam.

More needs to be done to understand Islam, not play whack-a-mole with it.

IS is not a terrorist group. You are mixing them up with Al Qaeda. How many bombing campaigns in the west has IS itself (rather than people sympathetic to it) carried out?

 

[ECA]

I think the civilian population in Iraq/Syria would call them terrorists, or do brown people not count?

 

[Wij]

I think the civilian population in Iraq/Syria would call them terrorists, or do brown people not count?

I think they'd call them invaders and murderers.

 

[Bodhi]

Just goes to show what happens when you deny large sections of the community a bacon sandwich. It happens all over the shop, the Middle East, Boko Harem, Kosovan, vegetarians, every single time.

Make bacon, not war. You know it makes sense.

 

[Gwadien]

I think they'd call them invaders and murderers.

I think the people in Syria would call them heroes, because they're being saved from Assads regime.

There are dozens of nations on this planet which use fear and violence to hold onto power, but the west usually doesn't have much interest in those nations, so we tend to ignore them.

I may come across as a IS sympathiser, but I'm totally not, the point is, I like to find out WHY we have this anti-IS mentality when we let so many similar events across the planet continue without much response.

The reason why I said what IS want isn't too crazy is simple; Muslims want a Muslim nation which isn't being control by the west states, Iran was the last bastion of a western-free nation, but now they're cuddling up to us even more, so there are people out there that want to severe those links (and if you think about it, it isn't that crazy, it's using Islam to gain a completely 'liberal' goal - FREEDARM.) The Caliphate is the way that they're going to go about to achieve this goal, because again, the unity & strength of the forces of Islam was under a caliphate, so any self-respecting Muslim would want a caliphate back, the point where people would back off is -how- that is achieved, and IS are going for the 'Our religion is under attack' approach, rather than the 'We need to build a caliphate, because the other Islamic nations are doing it wrong'

Hypothetically speaking, I'm pretty sure there is some justification behind this; if you asked them to set up a caliphate which didn't use violence and was totally democratic and you sent all the kings horses and all the kings men to police a vote, and they still voted for a caliphate, the west would still be upset.

I know a lot of you on this forum actually do have brains, but for the ones that don't, try stepping in their shoes for a moment, see it from their perspective, don't sound like that FOX woman 'KILL KILL KILL KILL BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB'

 

[Hawkwind]

The fact that they're taking the Ko'ran totally from a medieval perspective and making it attractive to even the most moderate of Muslim, not as a terrorist-group that mercilessly kill its enemies to get across political messages, but 'defends' their religion from the evil imams that water it down, and from the west that seeks to destroy Islam.

More needs to be done to understand Islam, not play whack-a-mole with it.

They have read into the words of the Ko'ran and come up with a message that is not actually there. Like the bible it is full of contradictions but these guys are just making shit up. Stoning to death of people is not in the Ko'ran, no mention of it whatsoever. Instead for crimes such as adultery lashing (whip) is the prescribed punished. They are taking a mix of medieval punishments and old traditions then stating it is Alah's will, simply trying to rewrite the Ko'ran. There is a reason it was known as the religion of the poor and illiterate....Most of its followers live in areas of poor education standards and they simply believe what they are told by the Imams.

More actually needs to be done to teach what the Ko'ran actually says rather than what certain hate preachers tell them during Friday Prayer. As usual, people using religion for their own nefarious purchases and to gain power.

I think the people in Syria would call them heroes, because they're being saved from Assads regime.

And what about the 17 different Christian denominations in that country, that make up 10% of the total population. That have been there long before Islam came into being. They mostly support the Assad regime due to the protection it gives them? They even have their own Civil Courts, non Sharia in Syria. The West knows full well that they are being ethnically cleansed and will be purged completely if the "rebels" do win. Unfortunately, nothings ever that simple.

 

[Raven]

You can try and "understand" (maybe spread awareness too?!) this sort of shit all you like.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31502863

Personally I see no reason at all in understanding it, there is nothing to understand.

 

[Scouse]

IS is not a terrorist group.

I think that's because terrorist is a poorly-descriptive and overly politicised term - it's used by those in power to describe identical people who use violent means to become like them.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

I think the civilian population in Iraq/Syria would call them terrorists

I agree with Wij about invaders and murderers - but half the population there agree with IS what they're doing.

 

[Scouse]

They have read into the words of the Ko'ran and come up with a message that is not actually there. Like the bible it is full of contradictions but these guys are just making shit up.

They're following a religion. It's ALL made up.

It's not just the teachings of their silly guide book, it's stories about big bad Mo and his life and words and an interpretation of them. A perfectly valid interpretation, mind - just as valid as peaceful interpretations.

If your basis for action is not evidence-based then you can pretty much justify anything.

Personally I see no reason at all in understanding it, there is nothing to understand.

Completely disagree with your point of view:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L-fR-4O7cs

 

[Exioce]

Great article, picked it up yesterday when Sam Harris gave it some publicity.
Makes sense of the seemingly non-sensible things IS have said and done so far, and needs to be understood in order to predict and defeat them.

 

[Job]

It's hilarious how we defend religious belief and custom so strongly in the west while on a mission to destroy it at it's roots.
If I hear one more bleedin liberal telling me the Koran is a cult of peace I will throw up...no it quite obviously on every level is not, it's a standard religion of empire, power and control...the peace bit is the first layer of brainwashing for the idiots...our prophet said nice shit, he helped specific people, saved a handful of people in peril.
Now he' s a undeniable beacon of peace and compassion...well fuk that stupid shit...and really anyone who actually believes that purile shite needs an education in reality.

 

[DaGaffer]

I think that's because terrorist is a poorly-descriptive and overly politicised term - it's used by those in power to describe identical people who use violent means to become like them.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.



I agree with Wij about invaders and murderers - but half the population there agree with IS what they're doing.

Mostly the male half. Personally I think most of the people "saved" from Assad's regime are having the same realisation as all those Poles saved from the Nazis by the Soviets in 1945; at least the Nazis were a bit less rapey.

 

[Gwadien]

Mostly the male half. Personally I think most of the people "saved" from Assad's regime are having the same realisation as all those Poles saved from the Nazis by the Soviets in 1945; at least the Nazis were a bit less rapey.

Indeed, but we let the Russians stay, what's after ISIS?

 

[Raven]

Who cares so long as they give us the oil, right?

 

[DaGaffer]

Indeed, but we let the Russians stay, what's after ISIS?

It wasn't a matter of "let" the Soviets stay, with 250 divisions on the ground there was fuck all the western allies could do about it; IS is different, if there was the will to do it, they could be destroyed, but what we need is other Muslims to do it, but the only ones who could (Iran) aren't much of a prize either.

 

[Gwadien]

It wasn't a matter of "let" the Soviets stay, with 250 divisions on the ground there was fuck all the western allies could do about it; IS is different, if there was the will to do it, they could be destroyed, but what we need is other Muslims to do it, but the only ones who could (Iran) aren't much of a prize either.

Exactly, so the only options we really have is;

• Allow them to have a democratic Islamist state where they're not as naughty.
• Keep western troops there for the next 100 years.
• Allow Iran to take over, and let them control it.
• Get another dictator in charge who will suppress them, and we'll turn a blind eye.

 

[Scouse]

Wouldn't have happened on Saddam's watch...

 

[old.user4556]

Yeah, but he stockpiled weapons of mass destruction. Man, I'm so glad we spent billions on a war - I honestly sleep safer at night thanks to Tony Blair.

THUMBSUP.

 

[DaGaffer]

Exactly, so the only options we really have is;

• Allow them to have a democratic Islamist state where they're not as naughty.
• Keep western troops there for the next 100 years.
• Allow Iran to take over, and let them control it.
• Get another dictator in charge who will suppress them, and we'll turn a blind eye.

1 is a contradiction in terms, 2 is probably what's going to happen, 3 wouldn't really bother me but its not sustainable either without western help, 4 is the obvious answer (and we're kind of doing that in Egypt) but nooo we have to pretend democracy works and 90% of everybody aren't actually idiots.

 

[Job]

If only Hitler had won the war,
' Fuhrer, an arab terrorist has exploded a bomb in Berlin'
'Kill them all and their camels'

 

[Raven]

er...ok.