Is war made for big battles (like daoc keep sieges) ? Will it be zergy?

[Platin]

I loved the zergy stuff in daoc, so I'm just wondering, will it be the same you think?

 

[Cadiva]

I loved the zergy stuff in daoc, so I'm just wondering, will it be the same you think?

So far in closed beta that's been the case a lot of the time in the open RvR zones but with the potential for small groups to peel off and go capture different objectives.
Works well imho.

 

[Aada]

I loved the zergy stuff in daoc, so I'm just wondering, will it be the same you think?

Same here in DAOC i loved zergs.

I loved the big battles at the gates where eventually one realm would steam through the gate killing everything in sight.

 

[Xandax]

My prediction on beta is that we'll see the game beeing zergy for a while until the smaller organized groups (not 1FG wiping a zerg though ) start to perfect their tactics and can start taking off larger forces then themselves.
So in that aspect I think it'll be very much like DAoC. The collision detection will be interesting to see played out with good organization and tactics.

However the Scenarios are there as well for fast accessible RvR as well.

 

[Rayko]

looking forward to some good old keepwarfare

 

[Maasu]

I never played DAoC, but the whole ideas sounds quite a lot of fun, in saying that though WSG was all zerg wasn't it? That got somewhat tiresome after one or two.

My other experience of massive fights is in Eve where lag was ridiculous, can anyone tell me what the lag is like in WAR? When you get 50vs50 is it fine, playable/slightly laggy or annoyingly laggy?

 

[Xandax]

I never played DAoC, but the whole ideas sounds quite a lot of fun, in saying that though WSG was all zerg wasn't it? That got somewhat tiresome after one or two.

My other experience of massive fights is in Eve where lag was ridiculous, can anyone tell me what the lag is like in WAR? When you get 50vs50 is it fine, playable/slightly laggy or annoyingly laggy?

We've only been on small sub-par servers and there it was laggy.
We'll have to see come Open beta on the new datacenter - but I do expect you have to turn off spell effects to play problem free.
If it isn't server lag, it can be network latency or your own computer struggling.

DAoC was a slide show at times when there were a couple of hundred of people fighting another couple of hundred of people
WoW was a slide show when 50 people fought 50 people.

Will be very interesting to see how WAR's new server hold up.

 

[Overdriven]

DAoC was a slide show at times when there were a couple of hundred of people fighting another couple of hundred of people

I remember several server crashes due to 700 people in the same area at once..

 

[pikeh]

I remember several server crashes due to 700 people in the same area at once..

like when a load of french people came and made animists and stormed emain :<

 

[Peaches]

I Remember the early relic raids while running to objective everyone removed cloaks zoomed into ground and /follow raid leader

 

[guid0]

the people who favour zerg gameplay often forget that it makes alot of classes not very fun i.e. all the classes with meleedps. This made me think about a few questions one of you betaplayers might be able to answer.

1, how is renown distributed within the zerg, will a soloplayer not contributing but merely being in the area getting renown at the same rate as the ranged caster nuking. Or is it like it was in daoc shared among teammembers? / Given based on healing/dps/buffshearing.

2, How is ranged dps scaled compared to melee dps/defense. Like will a meleeclass have a chance to take down a caster or 2 if they meet at open range. or will the ranged dpsers killed the meleeguy before he even gets there?

 

[Cadelin]

I never played DAoC, but the whole ideas sounds quite a lot of fun, in saying that though WSG was all zerg wasn't it? That got somewhat tiresome after one or two.

My other experience of massive fights is in Eve where lag was ridiculous, can anyone tell me what the lag is like in WAR? When you get 50vs50 is it fine, playable/slightly laggy or annoyingly laggy?

WAR hopefully won't be just zerging.

If you have a decent computer setup correctly with a reliable broadband connection you will not have problems in zerg fights.

When games like DaoC first came out alot of people had dial up connections and the servers being used would have been alot less powerful.

Eve does has problems with zerg fights but thats partly due to the game mechanics which means more information needs to be sent between computers for each player.

 

[LordjOX]

I never played DAoC, but the whole ideas sounds quite a lot of fun, in saying that though WSG was all zerg wasn't it? That got somewhat tiresome after one or two.

My other experience of massive fights is in Eve where lag was ridiculous, can anyone tell me what the lag is like in WAR? When you get 50vs50 is it fine, playable/slightly laggy or annoyingly laggy?

My experience was tops 20-30 vs 20-30 in and around a RvR Keep. Performance is usually as good as your computer is, there was little real network latency between doing an action, getting it verified by the server and see the result / other clients seeing it.

the people who favour zerg gameplay often forget that it makes alot of classes not very fun i.e. all the classes with meleedps. This made me think about a few questions one of you betaplayers might be able to answer.

1, how is renown distributed within the zerg, will a soloplayer not contributing but merely being in the area getting renown at the same rate as the ranged caster nuking. Or is it like it was in daoc shared among teammembers? / Given based on healing/dps/buffshearing.

2, How is ranged dps scaled compared to melee dps/defense. Like will a meleeclass have a chance to take down a caster or 2 if they meet at open range. or will the ranged dpsers killed the meleeguy before he even gets there?

1. I'm not 100%, but from observation it seemed like it was some system that gave renown based on contribution and wether you were in a group / warband or not. Healers also get some small renown when healing their own realms mates from RvR damage.
In groups and warbands it seemed to be split evenly, unless one member killed an enemy (ie: 1vs1, far away from the warband). That's my hypothesis anyways.

2. Firstly I'd like to comment that WAR classes are not balanced based on duel gameplay or 1 vs 1 fights. Ranged dps as it is now, especially the caster types are pretty strong. Melee dps at open and max range, both aware would probably give the ranged dps the victor. In close quarters, the melee dps would. Multiple targets, highly unlikely as they would grind any melee char down regardless, with snares and kiting etc.

 

[LordjOX]

Ad addendum:
I like to see the whole picture about WAR. It is definitely not DAoC where you had some guild enforced arenas for "fair fights". In WAR you have scenarios for that.

In the Open RvR zones it will be all about overall strategy and tactics to achieve goals.
1. Battlefield Objective
2. Keeps
3. Tier Control
4. Capture racial pairing fortress
5. Siege Capital city
And so on...

With all goals, there will be need for a host (an army) of players cooperating. But there will also be need for highly specialized/"trained"/dicplined groups of players performing specialized tasks. When the players and the game evolve you'll see few people taking down many, but it's all about WAR and it's not designed to cater some players egos.

Sometimes it will be zergy/crowded in certain areas, but here it's alot of room for picking off people, harassing the rear of the enemys army (especially an unorganized one). Killing people that split off and chase etc.

 

[Wild]

1, how is renown distributed within the zerg, will a soloplayer not contributing but merely being in the area getting renown at the same rate as the ranged caster nuking. Or is it like it was in daoc shared among teammembers? / Given based on healing/dps/buffshearing.

2, How is ranged dps scaled compared to melee dps/defense. Like will a meleeclass have a chance to take down a caster or 2 if they meet at open range. or will the ranged dpsers killed the meleeguy before he even gets there?

1. if your not doing damage or healing you wont get any renown unless your in a grp or warband. but it also seems to scale in a party/warband with what damage you do. not played a healer so no idea but i know they get renown for healing people. also solo kill at lvl 40 gives about 250 renown but with zerg attacking same target u can get as little as 5 renown

2. melee dps do pwn ranged and i found that the tanks can take a hell of a battering before they go down. the pure melee dps classes dont last that long but are able to take down casters/healers. im playing a shadow warrior and can take down casters and healers quite well but i dont seem to dent tanks much .. there are a lot of balence issues that are still to be addressed so i wouldnt pick classes with current infomation as things will be chandged .. imo !

 

[guid0]

My experience was tops 20-30 vs 20-30 in and around a RvR Keep. Performance is usually as good as your computer is, there was little real network latency between doing an action, getting it verified by the server and see the result / other clients seeing it.



1. I'm not 100%, but from observation it seemed like it was some system that gave renown based on contribution and wether you were in a group / warband or not. Healers also get some small renown when healing their own realms mates from RvR damage.
In groups and warbands it seemed to be split evenly, unless one member killed an enemy (ie: 1vs1, far away from the warband). That's my hypothesis anyways.

2. Firstly I'd like to comment that WAR classes are not balanced based on duel gameplay or 1 vs 1 fights. Ranged dps as it is now, especially the caster types are pretty strong. Melee dps at open and max range, both aware would probably give the ranged dps the victor. In close quarters, the melee dps would. Multiple targets, highly unlikely as they would grind any melee char down regardless, with snares and kiting etc.

Ty for this info. It did somewhat confirm my thoughts of zergwarfare being mainly for classes with ranged dmg and/or heals. As i think this is a major part
of what makes the "RvR" feel unique and fun it kinda sucks when half the playerbase are forced by design to do other stuff.
Guess making a caster seems more and more intresting (even though everyone and their alt know that casters in mythic games are zergsurfing noskillers )

 

[LordjOX]

Ty for this info. It did somewhat confirm my thoughts of zergwarfare being mainly for classes with ranged dmg and/or heals. As i think this is a major part
of what makes the "RvR" feel unique and fun it kinda sucks when half the playerbase are forced by design to do other stuff.
Guess making a caster seems more and more intresting (even though everyone and their alt know that casters in mythic games are zergsurfing noskillers )

Well, I'd like to remind that even though all the classes fulfill a certain role in groups, there is plenty need for melee dps and ranged dps in PQs. And both in RvR.
If you look at the Witch Hunter and Witch Elf they have some limited stealth ability and can pick off lone soft-targets entering the RvR zone or act as scouts for the guild / warband.

 

[guid0]

Well, I'd like to remind that even though all the classes fulfill a certain role in groups, there is plenty need for melee dps and ranged dps in PQs. And both in RvR.
If you look at the Witch Hunter and Witch Elf they have some limited stealth ability and can pick off lone soft-targets entering the RvR zone or act as scouts for the guild / warband.

Aww you know me, i can only play offensive support so no sneaks for me.

 

[Wild]

Aww you know me, i can only play offensive support so no sneaks for me.

the stealth only lasts 30 sec's so wont be any kinda stealth zergs
only played a witch hunter not a witch elf . but my optins are they do vv nice damage but dont last very long in rvr vs any classes :S hoping this gets changed and ill prolly play one as main

 

[Downanael]

The charater balance is bound to be changed before release,right now Destruction is clearly more powerfull due to their classes getting much more powerfull skills/abilities while Order mirror classes are getting abilities which are gimped versions of what Destruction gets.

So i really would not suggest listening to us and deciding what class you will be rolling,they totally remading melee chars and nerfing ranged dps (apparently,since we don't have access to USA forums)

 

[Platin]

Any strength/magic relics that boost power for one side?

 

[Andrilyn]

Nope.

However you can get very minor buffs from BO commanders when you control a BO.
Buffs like "All heals you recieve are 10% more effective" <- Best one I could find.
Rest are like "+10% to all resists and +10 armour".

So not really imba buffs and not many people seem to know you can talk to the commander to get them atm.

 

[Fafnir]

Will there be any Glacier Giant MKII, for thoose sieges where the defence is stronger?

 

[Platin]

How is character-rvr development? Does it work like daoc with RPs, that eventually will make your character very strong(or "godmode" like some people call it )?

 

[Tallen]

How is character-rvr development? Does it work like daoc with RPs, that eventually will make your character very strong(or "godmode" like some people call it )?

It's the Renown system in War, so RR = Renown Rank which is nice for us ex-DAoCers

You gain Renown Points as you gain levels and you spend them on things like abilites or stat upgrades, but none of it seems to be game-breaking stuff. They are nice bonuses, but certainly nothing that would make you "godlike".

 

[Ardwan]

Same here in DAOC i loved zergs.

I loved the big battles at the gates where eventually one realm would steam through the gate killing everything in sight.

Same thing happens in WAR, except everyone gets stuck in the door due to clipping

 

[Derian]

Same thing happens in WAR, except everyone gets stuck in the door due to clipping

If the defense is organised enough you could plant tanks all along the door when it breaks and heal em up. Effectively stopping the attackers from getting though. Could bring a whole new spin on keep sieges.

 

[Ardwan]

If the defense is organised enough you could plant tanks all along the door when it breaks and heal em up. Effectively stopping the attackers from getting though. Could bring a whole new spin on keep sieges.

Aye, I'd love to get some organised tactics like this a try.

Just fill the door with Ironbreakers and have a line of Bright Wizards AEing the hell out of the group - Should decimate em.

 

[Tallen]

Aye, I'd love to get some organised tactics like this a try.

Just fill the door with Ironbreakers and have a line of Bright Wizards AEing the hell out of the group - Should decimate em.

Engineers.....

 

[Tzeentch]

Ad addendum:


In the Open RvR zones it will be all about overall strategy and tactics to achieve goals.
1. Battlefield Objective
2. Keeps
3. Tier Control
4. Capture racial pairing fortress
5. Siege Capital city
And so on...

With all goals, there will be need for a host (an army) of players cooperating. But there will also be need for highly specialized/"trained"/dicplined groups of players performing specialized tasks. When the players and the game evolve you'll see few people taking down many, but it's all about WAR and it's not designed to cater some players egos.

Sometimes it will be zergy/crowded in certain areas, but here it's alot of room for picking off people, harassing the rear of the enemys army (especially an unorganized one). Killing people that split off and chase etc.

Can I just say this is entirely bullshit.

No offense LordJox, but everything in this game is designed so that a zerg doesn't need to think, all they need to do is follow the instructions/waypoints on the map (BOs, keeps etc) and they'll win.

They have these HUGE keeps, that can be taken down by 6 players (if it doesnt have any AE types inside defending of course).

There's room to pick off stragglers from the zerg, and the other people that are finding the stragglers from your zerg, but overall the entire RvR objective-orientated zone control structure strongly encourages zerging.

In the recent phase of beta, all that's really happened in every zone that was fought over and subsequently locked, was that there was massive zergs on both sides.

Big resounding 'meh' from me on the RvR so far in this game. It's more "New Frontiers" than old frontiers with 7 keeps or whatever in a frontier.