Is war made for big battles (like daoc keep sieges) ? Will it be zergy?

[Brack]

Agreed with the zerg leader! this game is very much so for the zerg "apparently" in the beta groups went off to zones that were locked to get group v group pvp but most of what i've seen is zerg goes for keep, zerg gets pushed back, zerg pushes back etc etc from zone to zone..no thinking necessary as mentioned.

I like the scenarios and if you don't wanna zerg you can run off solo looking for ppl on way 2 join the zerg xD and im enjoying the beta so far but its no Daoc2 thats for sure

Oh i forgot to mention the zone locking removes strategy from the keeps too, you have little choice on which keeps to attack as you can only attack one of the 2 in the zone that is being fought over, no running to a keep miles away from the fighting trying 2 farm or draw a smaller fight to you. Just 1 zone full of action while the rest gets abandoned until its unlocked xD

The keep takes themselves are relatively quick to take and the are the basically the same in each zone not seen any keep leveling like in daoc so far but i maybe wrong...with the speed zones lock and unlock i doubt keeps have a leveling system nothing would get past level 1

 

[Ardwan]

Agreed with the zerg leader! this game is very much so for the zerg "apparently" in the beta groups went off to zones that were locked to get group v group pvp but most of what i've seen is zerg goes for keep, zerg gets pushed back, zerg pushes back etc etc from zone to zone..no thinking necessary as mentioned.

I like the scenarios and if you don't wanna zerg you can run off solo looking for ppl on way 2 join the zerg xD and im enjoying the beta so far but its no Daoc2 thats for sure

Oh i forgot to mention the zone locking removes strategy from the keeps too, you have little choice on which keeps to attack as you can only attack one of the 2 in the zone that is being fought over, no running to a keep miles away from the fighting trying 2 farm or draw a smaller fight to you. Just 1 zone full of action while the rest gets abandoned until its unlocked xD

The keep takes themselves are relatively quick to take and the are the basically the same in each zone not seen any keep leveling like in daoc so far but i maybe wrong...with the speed zones lock and unlock i doubt keeps have a leveling system nothing would get past level 1

Other than the keeps in the other pairings that could quite easily be attacked while the main zerg is in a different pairing.

 

[Brack]

that was like going to HW in daoc taking a keep for no apparent reason, noone looks so you get no incoming might as well play a pve game

 

[LordjOX]

Can I just say this is entirely bullshit.

No offense LordJox, but everything in this game is designed so that a zerg doesn't need to think, all they need to do is follow the instructions/waypoints on the map (BOs, keeps etc) and they'll win.

They have these HUGE keeps, that can be taken down by 6 players (if it doesnt have any AE types inside defending of course).

There's room to pick off stragglers from the zerg, and the other people that are finding the stragglers from your zerg, but overall the entire RvR objective-orientated zone control structure strongly encourages zerging.

In the recent phase of beta, all that's really happened in every zone that was fought over and subsequently locked, was that there was massive zergs on both sides.

Big resounding 'meh' from me on the RvR so far in this game. It's more "New Frontiers" than old frontiers with 7 keeps or whatever in a frontier.

You forgot to add defenders into the equation when it comes to keeps. Even mindless zerging back and forth needs to think some to defeat the other zerg every time.

Atleast they try to add some incentive to cooperate in RvR, what players actually do is up to ourself. It's very much in human nature to clump together and form massive mobs that steamroll everything though. But don't say that the highest objective at launch (capture the king) will be a 6-person job, but rather a thinking "zerg".

 

[Toel]

Man, I so hope it'll be as instense as it was in DAoC, only way I'll ever be able to show my friends what they missed out on.

 

[Tallen]

Agreed with the zerg leader! this game is very much so for the zerg "apparently" in the beta groups went off to zones that were locked to get group v group pvp but most of what i've seen is zerg goes for keep, zerg gets pushed back, zerg pushes back etc etc from zone to zone..no thinking necessary as mentioned.

I like the scenarios and if you don't wanna zerg you can run off solo looking for ppl on way 2 join the zerg xD and im enjoying the beta so far but its no Daoc2 thats for sure

Oh i forgot to mention the zone locking removes strategy from the keeps too, you have little choice on which keeps to attack as you can only attack one of the 2 in the zone that is being fought over, no running to a keep miles away from the fighting trying 2 farm or draw a smaller fight to you. Just 1 zone full of action while the rest gets abandoned until its unlocked xD

The keep takes themselves are relatively quick to take and the are the basically the same in each zone not seen any keep leveling like in daoc so far but i maybe wrong...with the speed zones lock and unlock i doubt keeps have a leveling system nothing would get past level 1

Your only seeing a server with a population of 600. There will hopefully be a lot more widespread rvr on the release servers.

It's no DAoC 2, thats for sure, but i for one am quite glad it isn't. It's Warhammer which has a massive lore and history that simply doesn't fit the DAoC mould in many respects.

I have had plenty of 1v1 fights and seen plenty of smaller skirmishes away from the main fights which were great fun. You just have to go looking for enemies and as the war camp quests often require a player to explore the rvr areas, there are more out there than you realise

If the game doesn't appeal to the purists from DAoC then thats probably not a bad thing thing imo.

That being said, I do hope many of the old EU DAoC guilds and players come and play Warhammer, seen so many old faces in the beta, it'd be awesome to lock horns with some of those players and adversaries once again

 

[Brack]

i've done most of the quests about scouting diff warcamps and such and most of the time leave the zerg solo or in a small group looking for destruct..however most of the time you have to camp a road that leads the destruct to their zerg in order to find only a few of em

 

[Brack]

edit has gone but i meant warcamps and BO's !

 

[Tallen]

edit has gone but i meant warcamps and BO's !

I know what you meant

I'm sure as more players realise there is smaller scale skirmishes to be had, they will spread out a bit. The warcamps are all located on the edges of the open rvr areas which seems to have been very deliberately done. You can fly in and happen across a small fight and get stuck-in or be wandering over to fly somewhere and find a few fights en-route.

Once your enemy learns theres a FG wandering around in a certain area, it'll attract other FG's over to try and wipe you out. Kinda like running up a flag saying "here we are, come get some".

I just think theres so much to this game that won't be seen until we get to experience high population servers.

 

[Brack]

tbh im hoping with higher populations the fight will be spread across the 3 realms not just one zone in empire v chaos as if thats the case the zerg isn't gonna be fun

 

[Tallen]

tbh im hoping with higher populations the fight will be spread across the 3 realms not just one zone in empire v chaos as if thats the case the zerg isn't gonna be fun

Pretty much, either you end up with the population spread out nicely, or one incredibly messy zerg

 

[Tetley]

If today was an example of how the RvR will turn out once the game is live, particularly when lots are at 40, then people have a real treat.

It was probably more intense today since it is the last day of the closed beta but it was great fun. A running battle with both sides fairly evenly matched it had everything most RvR fans could wish for. Unfortunately for me I ended up getting killed more times today than the rest of the week put together, but thats me using tank tactics with a Bright Wizard.

Now we have a few weeks of thumb twiddling until the open beta, but it is the live date that I am really looking forward to now.

 

[Ardwan]

If today was an example of how the RvR will turn out once the game is live, particularly when lots are at 40, then people have a real treat.

It was probably more intense today since it is the last day of the closed beta but it was great fun. A running battle with both sides fairly evenly matched it had everything most RvR fans could wish for. Unfortunately for me I ended up getting killed more times today than the rest of the week put together, but thats me using tank tactics with a Bright Wizard.

Now we have a few weeks of thumb twiddling until the open beta, but it is the live date that I am really looking forward to now.

Hehe I was out there in Chaos Wastes testing my DoT specced BW...I shoulda got a medal for spending more time on the front lines than the tanks. Was loving the DoTs, especially the mastery ability that snares and high damage DoT as long as you keep concentration. Pretty much a death sentence for anyone with Order melee close to em.

 

[Brack]

If today was an example of how the RvR will turn out once the game is live, particularly when lots are at 40, then people have a real treat.

It was probably more intense today since it is the last day of the closed beta but it was great fun. A running battle with both sides fairly evenly matched it had everything most RvR fans could wish for.

I tend to disagree after a couple of hours of standing outside the destruct warcamp waiting for enemy to nuke (along side 20 other ppl) i got bored lol. Not much to think about cept once someone is in range spam nukes and hope enough of the other ppl stood near hit him before he gets outta range.

Tried roaming about north and south but there were few to none roaming as the destruct were just flying to the warcamp and coming out of there

 

[Xanthian]

Its like emain ping pong all over again between APK - AMG.

Zzzz.

At least there was a few people willing to solo, gave me chance to test out the WL properly.
Great class, under rated tbh, if only the fooking pet worked properly and didn't warp all over the place.

 

[Ardwan]

At least there was a few people willing to solo, gave me chance to test out the WL properly.
Great class, under rated tbh, if only the fooking pet worked properly and didn't warp all over the place.

Aye, once they sort out pet pathing it should be a fantastic class. Was playing with the Axeman mastery line, and giving your pet the 50% speed boost ontop of it's snare should make it great for chasing down fleeing victims. And the positional styles are pretty decent.

 

[Killgorde]

One factor which may reduce the zerg mentality is that the lure of Renown Points may not be as great as it was for RP in DaoC - from what I've been reading the rewards (in terms of Renown Abilities) are far less beneficial and on Excal it was always Emain that was the place for RP farming as it was there that the highest concentration of potential RP resided in a small area. Hopefully there will be a more even split between the three "frontiers". And besides, if there is an "Emain" zergy zone in Warhammer everyone has the choice whether to to partake or do their own thing in one of the other less crowded RvR zones (as they did with DaoC) if large scale engagement isn't their cup of tea.

Having said that, on a populated server at peak time when the higher zones in WH are unlocked or there is a city siege with escalation, wherever that takes place will be scary in terms of server and PC load - I only hope that a) Goa have come a long way since DaoC with respect to server performance and b) Mythic have improved the client so that the game speed doesn't drop to 1 frame per minute for those with less than a top notch specced PC. Anyone in beta with a view on the performance of WH with respect to the above two issues?

 

[Ardwan]

a) Goa have come a long way since DaoC with respect to server performance and b) Mythic have improved the client so that the game speed doesn't drop to 1 frame per minute for those with less than a top notch specced PC. Anyone in beta with a view on the performance of WH with respect to the above two issues?

GOA have spent around 9million on the new server/data centre equipment - so they should be enough.

It was hard to get a proper idea of how the client handles in large-scale environments in the beta, with an average PC, if you have spell effects set to self or possibly group you should be fine in the majority of RvR battles.
The only issues I had was the initial hard drive grinding while it sticks everything into RAM, after that it was fine.

 

[Killgorde]

GOA have spent around 9million on the new server/data centre equipment - so they should be enough.

It was hard to get a proper idea of how the client handles in large-scale environments in the beta, with an average PC, if you have spell effects set to self or possibly group you should be fine in the majority of RvR battles.
The only issues I had was the initial hard drive grinding while it sticks everything into RAM, after that it was fine.

Thanks for that.

Found an interesting thread on WHA about instancing re: city sieges which at least puts to bed (to some degree) fears about extreme lag/fps loss (at least at the city siege stage).

Something I'v noticed on Wardb is the RvR zoning. Whether or not all zones make release is a moot point, but there are 2 tier 1,2,3 RvR zones for each race conflict (Dwarf v Geenskin etc), and at tier 4 it jumps to between 6 and 8. Not sure if I'm right in assuming that all tier 4 zones in a conflict are unlocked once the tier 3 criteria have been attained, but if this is the case (and all or most of the listed zones are implemented) the RvR side of things should be a lot more spread out than was the case with DaoC.

 

[Ardwan]

Thanks for that.

Found an interesting thread on WHA about instancing re: city sieges which at least puts to bed (to some degree) fears about extreme lag/fps loss (at least at the city siege stage).

Something I'v noticed on Wardb is the RvR zoning. Whether or not all zones make release is a moot point, but there are 2 tier 1,2,3 RvR zones for each race conflict (Dwarf v Geenskin etc), and at tier 4 it jumps to between 6 and 8. Not sure if I'm right in assuming that all tier 4 zones in a conflict are unlocked once the tier 3 criteria have been attained, but if this is the case (and all or most of the listed zones are implemented) the RvR side of things should be a lot more spread out than was the case with DaoC.

City Sieges are a bit of a hot topic at the moment, a lot of people are dissapointed by them. They do need some work but there are other things that should be a higher priority.
In regards to the zones, taking Tier 4 as an example as thats the one we've been playing most recently.
Technically at any given time you will have a choice of 3 zones to fight in. 1 per pairing. The other 2 zones in each pairing will be locked.
From what Ive heard having control of the Tier 2, Tier 3 zones make taking the Tier 4 ones easier, but I've not seen it in practice or any concrete details on it.
There are also the scenarios, usually you have a choice of 2 in each pairing, and these contribute more towards capturing the zone, than plain open RvR does.

 

[Andrilyn]

Yeah I really hope they change the city siege before release (or short after release) as atm it's a rather anticlimax thing if this is suppose to be the "end game".
Don't take me wrong I've been playing WAR for quite a while now and I love almost all aspects of it but the City siege is, as it currently stands, horrible.
You basically do 1 PQ about 100 times then you lock down the city kicking out all defenders/attackers (depends on which side won the most PQ's) and then the rest goes and PvE's the city as everyone from the other side is kicked out.

So basically the end game is one big PvE battle against the enemy city lord (eventually after clearing another couple of PQs after the first one).
This was a major let down for me as you cant even defend your city lord as you can no longer enter your city after the first phase..
Personally I'd rather see it become something like DAoC's relics where everyone could defend eventhough it being zergy atleast you could put up a fight all the way back to their zone to prevent them capping the relic.

I hope they are putting alot of changes in now that the servers are down for 2 weeks and maybe the end game wasn't the thing they focussed on most but it's the thing that makes or breaks a game for most people and I hope they sort it out to make it more fun and actually let people defend their city throughout all phases of the city siege.

 

[LordjOX]

Seriously?
With noone to defend the city it loses its point imo :|

 

[Ardwan]

The problem they've come across with the City Sieges is they want everyone to participate, but they also want the final fight with the king to be an epic fight that requires a lot of work - Which would be impossible to implement if you also had hundreds of enemy players attacking you aswell.
It's hard enough as it is just doing the first stage, you have to capture some BOs and other tasks, then take down a pretty solid NPC lords, all the while with enemy players chipping away at you.

Unless you're all lvl40, completing those PQs is gonna be nigh on impossible.

 

[Downanael]

Seems they did fine tune the rvr and this is how it ended up,it looks they really fecked it up

FileFront

 

[Mithradir]

Well zerg is not my best thing but you will be able to see that happening on warhammer. I would love although to see a bit more wide rvr areas in order to have fun also the guys that would chose to make group runs.

 

[Mellon]

Seriously?
With noone to defend the city it loses its point imo :|

A bit at least yes... At the moment, the most common and most effective way to defend my home city is by fighting two zones away, or maybe even in another pairing. It would be nice if we could just cram 2k+ people inside the inevitable city... but I can see the tecnical problems.

What _is_ great though is the Keep/fortress that is the last zone that you need to take in two different pairings in order to assault the capitol. Defending the fortress and it's walls is a regular outdoors thing. Everyone can join. You have huge walls, some NPCs. You get to pour oil on people. There I find the real feeling of defending the outer walls of my city. Once the invading army is _inside_ the city, then it all breaks down to chaos and small group fighting, wich in an absurd way is sort of historically correct

I do believe my warcry to encourage lastline defenders of the city will be: "To the walls!". And I shall have to be content with having my citys skyline behind me rather than around me while I kill and die for the gods.

 

[Dervish]

I do believe my warcry to encourage lastline defenders of the city will be: "To the walls!". And I shall have to be content with having my citys skyline behind me rather than around me while I kill and die for the gods.

OMG launch the damn game already....