Is this the future?

[civy]

Prime time fort takes are a thing of the past. So much AE and high rr tanks now that its impossible to take a door down.

1. Massive nerf to GTAOE
2. Massive nerf to repair door

Or this game will die a quick death imo.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Untrue, it just requires the other side to adapt and use new tactics. The mindless run up and smack the door no longer works.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Untrue, it just requires the other side to adapt and use new tactics.

Enlighten please. I'm not too proud to ask if someone knows superior tactics.

 

[civy]

Enlighten please. I'm not too proud to ask if someone knows superior tactics.

I would also like to know please

 

[Lubbock]

I would like to know too, atm Siege pad is down, so no siege engine, nukes have a a 4 second lag delay and enemy repairs door, tell us a tactic that works so we can get fortress takes going again.

 

[Mabs]

Prime time fort takes are a thing of the past. So much AE and high rr tanks now that its impossible to take a door down.

1. Massive nerf to GTAOE
2. Massive nerf to repair door

Or this game will die a quick death imo.

Enlighten please. I'm not too proud to ask if someone knows superior tactics.

1- reroll order
2- win

its not a complex strategy

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

1- reroll order
2- win

its not a complex strategy

I really should smack you hard for even daring to consider the possibility that there might be a good reason to play with the short arse smellies

But...

Its the same for Order as it is for us.

When we pile sorcs in a fort they may as well go home. So this isn't a 'side' issue, its a game balance bork.

 

[Mabs]

I really should smack you hard for even daring to consider the possibility that there might be a good reason to play with the short arse smellies

But...

Its the same for Order as it is for us.

When we pile sorcs in a fort they may as well go home. So this isn't a 'side' issue, its a game balance bork.

of course it is

i just have a reputation as a bitter synic that i like to maintain

 

[Grotnob]

of course it is

i just have a reputation as a bitter synic that i like to maintain

That's whot hapens when you go to a privite skool. You end up synical. :kissit:

 

[Pandemic]

the biggest problem is the repair of the door; the defendering BW's or Sorcs can be negated to a large extent by the attacking BW's or Sorcs. I've seen this at reikwald where when the inner door was attacked by destruction the sorcs all ran to the elevated shleves on each side making them most of them immune to being hit by rof then they aoe the battlements. result was all the BW's got massacred. However the door still couldnt be knocked down even with a ram up and lots of tanks hitting it due to the large number of tanks we had repairing the door

 

[mooSe_]

Maybe this will be improved when they restructure the forts/keeps.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

No magic secret except knockbacks, very handy for punting the offending tank away. Also ranged AE knockdown can get you into the lord room despite the ramps (although i agree the repairing does need a nerf - repairing should slow it not stop it entirely.

Also a WH/WE team can provide you crucial seconds to batter the door down with impunity if they pick and drop targets on the BM's or at the inside of the door before dying to the mass of enemies.

Not a magic bullet i agree, but it does make it just about viable.

 

[civy]

Until its sorted I guess I'm becomming the thing I h8 most. PvEer in RVR. I wont be going close to a defended keep or Fort while the game plays the way it does.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Until its sorted I guess I'm becomming the thing I h8 most. PvEer in RVR. I wont be going close to a defended keep or Fort while the game plays the way it does.

Somewhat ironic that with the rather excellent Domination system, Keep fights have been rather messed up by some overbuffing to Sorcs and BWs, even if some of it is indirect due to resist changes.

I think Order have a slight edge in the nasty AoE magic damage but engineer vs magus issues are relatively minor when compared to the effect that Rain of Fire and Pit of Shades are having in keep takes i.e. completely blocking any assault effectively.

Regarding the tactics posted above in Binarysurfer's post, although very valid points they are old tactics and the basic cornerstone of lord room pushes. The problem is that even a well healed tank dies in moments under the combined pressure of many PoS/RoF as appropriate. Sorcs and BWs on the walls can be rezzed/replaced faster than they can generally be killed. The situation gets worse in Lord Rooms with the bottleneck ramps.

The solution may simply be to stop the Sorc and BW spells stacking. This is already the case with Magus Dissolving Mist - you can only ever suffer the effects of one Dissolving Mist at a time, no matter how many Magi are casting it on the ground under you. It might be worth considering this for Sorcs and BWs but I don't know if this would over-weaken defenses.

 

[Grotnob]

It might be worth considering this for Sorcs and BWs but I don't know if this would over-weaken defenses.

If removing PoS/RoF's stacking would weaken defences too much, it indicates people are relying on the tactic too much. There's this other GTAoE thing called boiling oil, and it can be damage- and reload buffed to heck and back, making it do stupendous damage, but not many people actually bother with the War Engine buffs. Whack a tank wall just inside the outer gateway or inside the keep's door and stick some War Engines up on the hookpoints to disrupt the healers, and you can make it literally rain hurt over a much larger area without a Sorc or Bright Wizard in sight. Especially if you can co-ordinate your fire.

(As a side note, war engines need resists, k? All very well loving up their damage on players, and having them the single target engines able to kill other engines in maybe 8 shots (excluding oil), but when RDPS classes can run up and kill it in seconds, what's the point of counterbattery fire? Also a load of the hookpoint positions are functionally useless unless you enjoy looking at a screen full of battlement, tree, hill, Fortress guard's arse or other random piece of scenery which somehow manages to restrict 95% of your field of fire, or else the weapon's range falls just short of being able to hit anything. )

 

[Tallen]

Somewhat ironic that with the rather excellent Domination system, Keep fights have been rather messed up by some overbuffing to Sorcs and BWs, even if some of it is indirect due to resist changes.

Recently it's become apparent that the domination system has contributed to screwing up orvr. As if the grinding SC's and PQ's to cap a zone wasn't tedious enough, now we get to sit camping a BO in the middle of nowhere for 2 hours because the zerg thought it would be a great idea to cap them all before taking the keeps.....and thus begins endless hours of arguments and bitching.

PoS has made taking keeps very difficult, sat defending a keep the other day and the BW RoF wiped around 3 WB's of destro before they even reached the tank wall...recently sorcs seem to have figured out how to PoS onto battlements, through doors and somehow into the lord room from the bottom level again (which i thought had been fixed?).

At this moment in time it's a very frustrating game to play and unless something is done to fix this crap it won't be long before we get another forced transfer...

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Recently it's become apparent that the domination system has contributed to screwing up orvr. As if the grinding SC's and PQ's to cap a zone wasn't tedious enough, now we get to sit camping a BO in the middle of nowhere for 2 hours because the zerg thought it would be a great idea to cap them all before taking the keeps.....and thus begins endless hours of arguments and bitching.

PoS has made taking keeps very difficult, sat defending a keep the other day and the BW RoF wiped around 3 WB's of destro before they even reached the tank wall...recently sorcs seem to have figured out how to PoS onto battlements, through doors and somehow into the lord room from the bottom level again (which i thought had been fixed?).

At this moment in time it's a very frustrating game to play and unless something is done to fix this crap it won't be long before we get another forced transfer...

I agree that issues with PoS and RoF need to be addressed as a matter of urgency. Effectively now keep battles are decided by who has the most BWs or Sorcs. BWs btw have always been casting through the floor and into places they shouldn't. Not saying all, just saying enough so that we notice. I'm pretty sure there have always been sorcs that abuse the LoS thing too, I'm not trying to lay blame at either side in particular.

I disagree regarding the Domination system. I'd prefer not to share what we do on open forums but BOs are not an issue for us and we don't sit on them for 2 hours. Generally speaking, oRvR has become much more mobile and frantic if anything.

Mini rant:

For me personally the whole ranged AoE thing is particularly frustrating because pretty much every ranged class on the Order side can AoE from a long way off (certainly the casters anyway) and Magi can't even remotely compete with that. Previously I'd favoured the Magus being close quarters Magic DPS if we get the appropriate lovin' somewhere down the line but I'm starting to rethink this position - We simply can't compete at the moment in any meaningful way when it comes to sieges. If I'm very lucky I can drop dissolving mist on the ram pad when defending (and even then not always, due to distance). I can target enemies on battlements with AoE once every 60 secs with my rank 2 morale. Whoop de doo. That will change the face of any battle. I can run really close to the battlements and die trying to get my standard AoE off, or I can sit back and wait for the tanks to do their thing, occasionally dropping my relatively feeble 100' anytime DoT on targets of opportunity.

Going by forums (yes, I know, a dodgy source of info if ever there was one but when its all you have you take it) there is no sign of any of the major issues Magi are asking for to be addressed in the near future. Being the poor cousin to every other caster or ranged DPS in the game is getting a bit old now.

 

[civy]

Going by forums (yes, I know, a dodgy source of info if ever there was one but when its all you have you take it) there is no sign of any of the major issues Magi are asking for to be addressed in the near future. Being the poor cousin to every other caster or ranged DPS in the game is getting a bit old now.

My SW feels your pain. She has been specced as MDPS for 3 months now as her ranged dps just plain sucks.

My advice is roll a alt. T1/T2 and I hope T3 has been a blast this week. I'll return to t4 when game breaking ( to me) issues are sorted.

edit: An idea for ROF/PoS. Made them a dmg pool for say 4k dmg. They will dish out their dmg over time till the pool is exhausted. SO if 20 peeps are in the pool they will only take200 dmg each but if 4 are in teh pool they get hit for 1k each. The numbers ofc are just thrown out there and would need balancing.

 

[Lubbock]

Aye RoF needs a nerf <playing a BW myself> atm keep takes and fort fights are impossible.
RoF needs something done before it was quite sucky, did between 100 to 200 damage to tanks and that is just not very good, så we need a boost to it, but atm its too much.
So i think the idea with RoF and PoS not being stackable is the best solution, that way people have to be smart and spread their AoE out instead of just stacking at door.
But just the ramblings of a mad Dane.

 

[BigE]

Aye RoF needs a nerf <playing a BW myself> atm keep takes and fort fights are impossible.
RoF needs something done before it was quite sucky, did between 100 to 200 damage to tanks and that is just not very good, så we need a boost to it, but atm its too much.
So i think the idea with RoF and PoS not being stackable is the best solution, that way people have to be smart and spread their AoE out instead of just stacking at door.
But just the ramblings of a mad Dane.

nerf mad danes...

But on the subject, I think both sides agree that these spells are dominating keep takes and somethign needs to be done.. I thinkt he not stacking idea seems to be the a good idea

 

[Grotnob]

edit: An idea for ROF/PoS. Made them a dmg pool for say 4k dmg. They will dish out their dmg over time till the pool is exhausted. SO if 20 peeps are in the pool they will only take200 dmg each but if 4 are in teh pool they get hit for 1k each. The numbers ofc are just thrown out there and would need balancing.

I see where you're going with this one, but if it worked as you suggest, it would encourage people to run into the AoE to spread out the damage, thereby mitigating the spell's killing power.

All that really needs to happen is to stop PoS/RoF stacking with itself, so the people in the AoE only get hit by one, and not three or more. The stacking's the killzone creator, not the spell's damage on it's own.

Oh, and raise the resistance cap a bit, too.

 

[Santa's little helper]

Dude, the game has been dying a loooooooooooooong time

 

[Faeldawn]

I disagree regarding the Domination system. I'd prefer not to share what we do on open forums but BOs are not an issue for us and we don't sit on them for 2 hours. Generally speaking, oRvR has become much more mobile and frantic if anything.

I know how to make the system work, it's not rocket science to wait until the keep timers are at 25 minutes then cap the BO's all at once,unfortunately preventing the zerg capping BO's in their RP frenzy is often impossible and as such you normally wind-up protecting them for a long time. The point here I think was that this causes a lot of arguments and bitching when players play the old "i pay my subs" card

 

[Faeldawn]

I see where you're going with this one, but if it worked as you suggest, it would encourage people to run into the AoE to spread out the damage, thereby mitigating the spell's killing power.

All that really needs to happen is to stop PoS/RoF stacking with itself, so the people in the AoE only get hit by one, and not three or more. The stacking's the killzone creator, not the spell's damage on it's own.

Oh, and raise the resistance cap a bit, too.

I see your point, but thats a huge nerf to the classes and not a fix to the problem, do that and they all reroll magus and engineers, then they get nerfed and we wind up with a tank/melee-dominated game until the nerf-bat rolls on and we wind up with a nerf/boost frenzied shambles like DAoC again where no classes have any kind of discernable balance to them.

Imo the resistance/damage balance needs fixing for those two spells, thats all.

 

[Calaen]

A big problem is that almost every class has a knock back so even as a WE being able to get up to the battlements, it's very difficult to get more than one kill and stay inside. You are either knocked off outside the keep or knocked down into the the keep with no where to go.

Add into this that WE's have been forced to treachery which means we got to circle strafe all fight to get our abilities off, trying to actually stay on the battlements when you are up there is a right old laugh.

Throw on top of that the fact that a guy who;s head I am standing on is out of range you got one fucked up mdps class I know others are suffering from this, but I cannot comment because I only experience it myself.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I'd say nerf the damage on all the AoEs that are doing similar-to-single-target damage.

Diminishing returns on stacked RoF etc. would be nice too, just to stop sickening killzones.
(the "one GTAOE at a time" idea works for me, but not for targetted AoEs - they're harder to spam away and you need to be in los )

That or just have the BW need to be in LoS of the target for the entire duration (and stop it ticking after the BW dies - not sure if this is server lag but I seem to get a couple of ticks at least after I've killed the BW doing the damage...)

 

[Guyton]

Range is also an issue the BW and egineer aoe spells have longer range than that of sorcs and magus. As a healer I just can't keep sorcs alive long enough for them to get close enough to a keep to actually attack it before they are mowed down by the aoe spam.

though the "bug" of RoF going through the floor of keeps is a pain to most at least DoK's can do the same with their AoE heals - so nice not to have to run into a lord room unless its absolutely necessary, I know its not great but destruction gets some love too - sometimes

 

[Gahn]

Aoe is gone out of control really, they need to fix the Fall Over dmg and the stacking thingie, the fact that i have to run the game at fastest framerate hence not seeing the aoe shit doens't help me also .
The Chosen's Auras are pretty sick atm to add it over.

 

[Ctuchik]

No magic secret except knockbacks, very handy for punting the offending tank away.

well sure, but then you still have to deal with the masses of GTAOE sorcs/magus/BW's/whatever the other GTAOE class order has.

sure getting rid of the tankwall helps, but its not that thats killing you. its all the fucking AE's thats still gonna pound you after the tankwall is scattered.

 

[Ctuchik]

The Chosen's Auras are pretty sick atm to add it over.

they aint worse then the KOTBS's auras