Question Is this acceptable Policing?

[Will]

Or...a jury?

 

[Embattle]

I agree lets waste more money over a pisshead.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

This is a little hard to tell, the video doesn't show the whole story so I'm inclined to sit on the fence on this one.

Tasers are seriously fucked up. Regardless of what the police say, they are not non-lethal weapons; they have caused numerous deaths. They are frequently overused, used on people who are not a threat and many officers decide the repeat shocking is necessary, when it mostly isn't. The number of clips I've seen of people being tasered just 2-3 seconds after receiving a previous shock is stunning - of course in that time they can't move their hands to where you want them, you just fucking electrocuted them!

Tasers should only be allowed in the hands of highly trained individuals. Most police get a day or two of training at the absolute maximum. This is no way to treat training of a potentially fatal weapon.

 

[Jeros]

Would you rather the police carry guns?

I was actually surprised how many countries have armed police, we are part of the minority.

 

[Bugz]

Tasers should only be allowed in the hands of highly trained individuals. Most police get a day or two of training at the absolute maximum. This is no way to treat training of a potentially fatal weapon.

Most Police don't get to use them.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

No, there's very little need for every policeman to be armed in the UK. A baton is fine. Tasers are fine in theory, but only if used responsibly. Currently, they aren't.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Most Police don't get to use them.

That's soon to change though, they're rolling them out to most of them in the next few years.

 

[Bugz]

I bet most on the beat police officers won't get to use them.

Some areas of the country have one police officer per council estate.

The Police have it rough to be honest. Not a job I'd want to do.

 

[Jeros]

Some areas of the country have one police officer per council estate.

Yep sounds like my hometown

 

[Wazzerphuk]

They do, and I'm one of their few defenders on these boards for the most part. They perform an essential service, have a really tough job with poor working hours and not great pay, they deal with the worst things that can possibly happen and then they get sneering sniping abuse because some people have a problem with authority and can't detach the actions of individuals from the institution.

As someone with a family history of serious heart conditions, I would not want myself or anyone else to have a taser used on them. It's the lazy man's method of controlling a person.

 

[Bugz]

My dad use to work for the prison service; some of the worse prisons in the country and use to tell stories of how some of the biggest inmates may kick up a fuss and literally they would need 3-4 of these prison officers trying to restrain these big-fuck-off angry dudes. They had to play fair (by fair I mean within limits) whilst the big-fuck-off angry dudes were throwing punches, knee strikes etc.

Why should a tazer not be used in situations like those (except not in a prison ofc) to prevent any kind of physical contact? Excluding this video where obviously four men against a drunk man probably didn't need 2 taserings (if 1), the Police should have the right to taser someone they feel is a threat without getting close.

I really fail to see, except for a handful of special occurrences, why anyone would restrain arrest against the Police, unless they were in breach of a law or simply drunk & disorderly. If Police knocked on my door and said 'yo dude, we're arresting you for assault' (which I didn't do), I wouldn't fling my arms about like a mad man screaming. I'd go to the station, get a lawyer, clear my name and appeal for compensation if relevent.

I'm going off-tangent here but your view of lazy is just very one-sided. A Police officer with a family and a life of his own is worth more than the person in breach of the law in terms of physical safety (note - I'm not saying which deserves to live more!).

 

[00dave]

I agree with bugz. Have any of you people accusing the police of being lazy actually tried to restrain someone? Someone possibly high on drugs or completely drunk who have a temporarily high pain threshold? without causing them serious and/or permenant injury? The human body is capable of some wonderful things all by itself when the situation is right, and when you're angry and pumped full of adrenaline you're stronger than the average person.
Trust me often it's at least one person per limb, unless you're some kind of martial arts expert or you've broken a bone.

 

[Bodhi]

You don't get the whole story which irks me, whether this is by accident or careful editing is unclear. However from what we can see, I reckon if it was a gang of 4 youths with a tazer, clearly beating the shit out of someone on the ground who was in no position to put up a fight I would say it was fairly disgusting behaviour. Legally the rozzers are probably ok, however morally they are on very dodgy ground.

Poor show by the cops imo, and why they get a bad name these days.

 

[Bugz]

BBC News - Police hit with missiles at Park Lane 'Facebook' party

Police get bricks etc. thrown at them for trying to help people partying on an unstable structure.

If I was an officer and one of those little shits throw a bottle/brick at me, I would not hesitate to taser his fuckin face repeatedly. Then anyone arrested should have an instant 1000 fine & some kind of points scheme same for speeding (don't put them in prison - costs taxpayer too much).. Make the parents pay it if not. If noone pays - community service at 5.82 an hour or whatever minimum wage is.

Country is full of scum and going to shit in re: to social attitudes etc. Let the police have more power; make the complaints & control of the police be spread over a variety of institutions to reduce corruption & we're atleast getting somewhere.

 

[Ctuchik]

He was drunk for sure but the case against him for assaulting a policeman was dropped - is it really right to put the boot in on a guy you have just tasered - hes not armed and theres 4 policeman?

tasers only work when they are active. 5 seconds after they stop that the suspect is fit for fighting again.

so if he's pissed off enough he wont care about getting hit with it again.

 

[Chilly]

BBC News - Police hit with missiles at Park Lane 'Facebook' party

LOL at guy with tandem bike in the middle of carnage.

 

[rynnor]

Trust me often it's at least one person per limb, unless you're some kind of martial arts expert or you've broken a bone.

They had 4 guys on one middle aged drunk - you seriously suggesting thats not enough - hes not Arnold Schwarzenegger u know?

Edit - Its also suspicious that he refused to testify to the IPCC and at the same time the charge the police raised against him was dropped.

Sadly the IPCC is a joke - it lacks independance and only tends to investigate where someone is killed by the police (which it has to do) or cases that got some publicity and caused public outrage.

If a policeman just beats you up they wont really be interested unless you manage to get it filmed...

 

[Scouse]

rynnor (shock!)



I don't get why people are shocked by stories of people 'mistreating' police.

In my experience (as someone who has policemen family members and close friends) the vast majority of them are nasty little shits, drunk on their own power.

They tend to be unplesant to deal with, are quick to jump to assumptions and don't follow the laws they're supposed to uphold to the letter (which is a big deal).

I think most of them are wankers and, a bit like politicians, the desire to do it for a job knowing what you're going to have to deal with every day means you must have a bit of a screw loose.

This is the considered (not ranting) position of a well-educated, 36 year-old, never-violent law-abiding citizen (with no criminal record). But feel free to dismiss it out of hand

 

[Scouse]

Gah. I agreed with rynnor until his edit about the IPCC. Yes the IPCC is an arse, but it's also an arse for the cops - who tend to get investigated for trivial shit.

However, I suppose it's good to know that the 'cop cop's' are also wankers

 

[rynnor]

Gah. I agreed with rynnor until his edit about the IPCC. Yes the IPCC is an arse, but it's also an arse for the cops - who tend to get investigated for trivial shit.

However, I suppose it's good to know that the 'cop cop's' are also wankers

And I find myself agreeing with you - must be a Full Moon or something

Yeah it is also unfair that the genuinely innocent officers spend months under a cloud due to the beurocracy.

 

[Bugz]

rynnor (shock!)



I don't get why people are shocked by stories of people 'mistreating' police.

In my experience (as someone who has policemen family members and close friends) the vast majority of them are nasty little shits, drunk on their own power.

They tend to be unplesant to deal with, are quick to jump to assumptions and don't follow the laws they're supposed to uphold to the letter (which is a big deal).

I think most of them are wankers and, a bit like politicians, the desire to do it for a job knowing what you're going to have to deal with every day means you must have a bit of a screw loose.

This is the considered (not ranting) position of a well-educated, 36 year-old, never-violent law-abiding citizen (with no criminal record). But feel free to dismiss it out of hand

Your family members are wankers? Nice.

To be honest - I could pull the situation around, argue the exact opposite points with exactly the same beginning and opening 'oh looks I knows police officers and I don't do bad things,' but it's irrelevent as your talking about a handful of people you know and me the same.

Unless there is some way of proving that 'the vast majority of police officers have done this, blah blah blah, done that, blah blah, blah' then it's a mute discussion really.

By the way Rynnor, dave was quoting me in that and as such I do not think he was directly refering to that video.

For every bad copper, I'd wager there is another good copper atleast.

 

[Dukat]

I'm not generally a 'fan' of the police, but I really dislike people passing judgement on things like this from thier comfortable arm-chair view in the calm light of day.

Its easy to point out mistakes, dish out blame and generally criticise people's actions when you get to watch a video that can be slowed down, paused, replayed and zoomed in on, then carefully considered and reviewed over a glass of wine - but just for one second try thinking about this from the point of view of one of the officers there ?

Like 00dave said, unless anyone here has actually been in a situation like that you can't even begin to say what people are capable of, even then its not really something anyone can poke holes in based on a short video which starts after the whole thing's started anyway.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I understand fully that some people wil require more forceful treatment for controls than others.

The problem is they use it for everyone, regardless of age or danger. Elderly people have been tasered for not immediately doing what has been asked of them - are they really a danger and need to be shocked to be put under control? No, you just need to talk to them.

 

[Garaen]

That's not excessive force, if someone is resisting after breaking the law they should use any force they can. You say 4 policemen on one drunk is excessive? What if this drunk had a knife, one drunk can still kill a policeman, what if the drunk was also a drug addict with a blood laced syringe as a weapon? All it takes is a pin prick to give someone a death sentence.

 

[rynnor]

That's not excessive force, if someone is resisting after breaking the law they should use any force they can. You say 4 policemen on one drunk is excessive? What if this drunk had a knife, one drunk can still kill a policeman, what if the drunk was also a drug addict with a blood laced syringe as a weapon? All it takes is a pin prick to give someone a death sentence.

Lol - nice way to distort an arguement with extreme what if scenarios - ok what if he was deaf and couldnt understand what the officers were saying, what if he were a diabetic going into shock rather than a drunk, what if he'd just had a stroke?

Edit - oh and what if he had alzheimers and was confused - do you believe the average policeman is up to a complicated psychiatric assesment from a few seconds involvement? Thats why they shouldnt just batter people.

 

[Bugz]

Oh yea Rynnor - a drunk person having a stroke or a drunk person with Alzheimers is JUST AS LIKELY TO OCCUR as people carrying knifes & druggies.

 

[Bodhi]

Oh yea Rynnor - a drunk person having a stroke or a drunk person with Alzheimers is JUST AS LIKELY TO OCCUR as people carrying knifes & druggies.

This is true. Our town is awash with potheads causing trouble. They're eating all the crisps in the fucking all night garage for starters.

 

[rynnor]

Oh yea Rynnor - a drunk person having a stroke or a drunk person with Alzheimers is JUST AS LIKELY TO OCCUR as people carrying knifes & druggies.

Yes? Are you seriously telling me you have carried out detailed statistical analysis on this or what?

Theres over 700,000 people with Alzheimers in the uk - thats over 1% of the UK population - 150,000 people have a Stroke in the UK each year.

 

[Bugz]

Okey - and how many are drunk at the time?

Or are you suggesting a drunk guy looks similair to a guy having a stroke? Your then basing this off the evidence you do not have as to how the guy was acting previously. If he did punch one of the officers in the face; then he obviously wasn't having a stroke was he?

Your kidding yourself either way lol.

 

[Garaen]

Lol - nice way to distort an arguement with extreme what if scenarios

If you genuinely believe what I mentioned are extreme "what if" scenarios then I don't know whether to admire or pitty your fairytale outlook on life.

Like I said earlier, I'm not going to comment on the incident which was recorded due to not knowing the full facts, but I would wager that 4 policemen wouldn't hammer someone (with a taser) because he was having a stroke.