Is a food crisis coming?

[Bugz]

Well what I'm not too sure of Tris - and I do respect your decision - is whether you don't care because you feel you cannot do anything to help (which isn't true) or because you simply don't care.

You have ability and potential and you could help. Perhaps you may not solve the problem but you may be able to help a village to survive - or to provide something to someone who will appreciate it so much.

And if you don't care because you just don't care - well that is your decision. I just think people need to realise that what they don't care about does affect us all in some way.

 

[tris-]

Well what I'm not too sure of Tris - and I do respect your decision - is whether you don't care because you feel you cannot do anything to help (which isn't true) or because you simply don't care.

Perhaps you may not solve the problem but you may be able to help a village to survive - or to provide something to someone who will appreciate it so much.

yes i could do that, if i could get to the village in question in person and do something directly. indirectly, i can do nothing.
i donated money to oxfam to buy specific things. the likely case is that money didnt get anywhere near what it should of, probably ended up in someones backpocket or used to buy the boss a new pc.
i have looked at volunteer work. but to do that costs thousands of pounds. i have to pay thousands of pounds if i want to go help someone. who helps me to do that then? no one. i dont have thousands of pounds to do such a thing.
i dont care in the sense that i do not feel anything for these people. they will die no matter what. the money i donated was apparently to help buy school books and feed school kids. only reason i did that is i feel education is the most important thing and possibly if one of these kids could survive through the school then fuck knows what he might end up doing. he him self could possibly change something if hes clever enough.
there is many things i cannot do anything about. these things, i dont see why i should waste time concerning my self with them.

 

[Bugz]

NABUUR.com - Nabuur | Your online volunteering opportunity

If you are worried about your money being used inappropriately or that you cannot do anything from where you are - check out Nabuur.com - it is a site where you and the people you help are connected 1 to 1. You can help through research, helping them with purchases, even trivial stuff like translating and aiding with website developments and so on.

Or take part in the many volunteering charities who don't work with money. There is the popular shoebox trust - fill a shoebox full of goodies and send it to the needy. Or there is the shoe trust itself - donate your shoes, which I believe are dontated straight to Africa (or used to make new shoes).

There's lots of opportunities to help

Oh and come on Tris - they will die no matter what? What a ridiculous statement. Your best friend will die no matter what - if he needs your help will you deny him it?

 

[tris-]

donate your shoes, which I believe are dontated straight to Africa (or used to make new shoes).

and when these african towns are controlled by militia groups, how do these people get what you send them?

 

[tris-]

Oh and come on Tris - they will die no matter what? What a ridiculous statement. Your best friend will die no matter what - if he needs your help will you deny him it?

my best friend isnt a complete stranger that lives a thousand miles away. by no matter what, i mean no matter what i do, they will die.

 

[Nate]

Kenya's having issues where the population are breeding so much they can't feed there children. There really should be something done to stop them shagging so much, Durex need to get out there!

 

[Golena]

The rest of your comments shocked me to be honest. These people are HUMAN BEINGS.

This evening I ate at KFC. In order for me to do that i'm fairly sure (although who knows with fast food these days) that a chicken had to die.

Now what connects me more with someone i've never met or ever will meet in an undeveloped country than with the chicken I ate for dinner? I probably share a closer genetic make up to the person in Africa but in truth that's about it.
Unless you believe that God made the world or that evolution is a figment of Darwins imagination then the chicken really isn't that much different to the person in Africa, I have to go a shorter distance down my descendants to get to a common spot with the African but that's it.

I am me purely and simply because of one rule of nature.. Survival of the fittest. You go on about compassion and all the other random actions that makes us human. What your doing when you do that is ignoring over a million years of who we are and concentrating on a few hundred years of what we've pretended to be..

Everything on this planet is here today because it's crawled over all the other things that didn't make it. Forget that at our peril. Now i'm not saying we shouldn't help if we are able to necessarily. But saying that people who choose to look out for themselves are ignorant is being ignorant. Your only on the earth because the long line of descendants that you come from chose themselves over the thing next to them, and 20000 years from now the things surviving on the planet will be able to look back and say exactly the same. The everyone can get along line is incorrect.. The worlds resources arn't going to become instantly balanced over night so everything on the planet has exactly what it needs without other things getting hurt. Nature simply doesn't work that way.

I could read up on who's exploiting who, or I could argue that we are exploiting the cows and demand that we ship them money and computers, and then yell that people who disagree with me are uneducated morons.

People have differing ways of looking at life. Because people don't have your view doesn't mean they are wrong. It's just a different view. In the old days we made horses pull our carts.. I assume that was also utterly unaceptable as well?

 

[Bugz]

You have a disgusting view on the situation in my opinion.

 

[Golena]

You have a disgusting view on the situation in my opinion.

That's because you've been raised in a posh neighbourhood with everything you ever wanted handed to you on a plate. You've no clue what you actually are or where you came from.

Trust me, when we actually reach the day when we really run out of stuff, and I don't mean when your sister uses the last of the milk from the fridge, you'll see very quickly how bubblewrapped that illusion is.

 

[Golena]

You have a disgusting view on the situation in my opinion.

In fact since your so educated on the situation.. Why are fields full of cattle doing nothing but providing McDonalds with a profit not a concern to you, but a kid in Africa is actually of interest?

I assume your answer will either contain religion (so there's no actual proof to back it up) or place the welfare of a human above another animal.
Why is your connection with another human stronger than your connection to a cow? Remember you can't use any concept of evolution in your argument, since that relies entirely on survival of the fittest, something which your arguing against!

Either that or you think we shouldn't farm animals for food, in which case i'm really wondering how all these people are going to be fed..

 

[Bugz]

That's because you've been raised in a posh neighbourhood with everything you ever wanted handed to you on a plate. You've no clue what you actually are or where you came from.

Trust me, when we actually reach the day when we really run out of stuff, and I don't mean when your sister uses the last of the milk from the fridge, you'll see very quickly how bubblewrapped that illusion is.

Before we delve too much into my past life:

I have been on council estates for about 75% of my life, some of which were located in the nasty end of SE London. My neighborhood is far from posh and my house is a council-built house. Oh and for those who believe I am in private school - I am not. Everything I say - I say from the mindset of a normal everyday person

Please get your facts right before you post nonsense.

Secondly, I have never judged or compared the value of animals or humans. I can relate more to humans, being the same as them, than I can animals. I live on a firm belief that people try to protect one another, because we're all the same.

You are trying to say that MEDC's exploiting the LEDC's is survival of the fittest? Would you consider a nuclear war being survival of the fittest? I don't know about you, but I believe in democracy, equal rulings and a chance for people to get along before we decide to play 'survival of the fittest' (an overused term used by many overrated people in the past).

In fact, why does everything in the world of economics point against survival of the fittest and more towards cooperation? Disproving of Adam Smith's Invisible Hand perhaps? Why is it when people work together, they command greater efficiency than if they worked alone?

From what I can see - your post is basically saying:
- MEDC's are strong
- LEDC's are weak
- Survival of the fittest: thus it is perfectly acceptable for MEDC's to exploit the LEDC's.

Was your arguement the same re: 9/11? Is it okey for terrorists to destroy lifes because it is 'survival of the fittest?' Are war-killings justified because it enables the stronger side to win?

Perhaps hundreds of years ago when democracy, civilization and human intelligence wasn't at the pinnacle it was today, survival of the fittest would be a valuable option...

Others feel free to contribute too IMO. It'd be nice to get a discussion going on an obviously passionate topic! Keep flaming and personal gripes non-existent though please as it helps to maintain a level of friendliness

 

[Binky the Bomb]

Ok, time out everyone.

For those who seem to care for staring people in the 3rd world.
A) Go do some charity work that takes you out their, go see for yourself.
B) THEN go preach about it.

As for the other side
A) Yes, you are entitled to your opinions, they are neither right or wrong, JUST opinions.
B) Just because the above don't agree, doesn't make them idiots. Just opinionated.

As for the those who have no opinion one way or the other, I'll ask you this: Read the following and answer the question below pls.

If we do start to use bio-fuels, which require us to use up food growing farm lands to support, then should we abolish the EU directive to 'Rest farmable land'. The reason I ask is that when it was introduced, they ment for it to help quell the rising 'Food mountains' I mentioned earlier. Instead, lazy farmers in France, Ireland and other area's of Europe (I know these two regions do it for a fact, i've travelled, i've seen it in action (Inaction?)) use it to claim grants, claiming to 'rest land' so they don't loose out cash for NOT growing something.

Confused? Here's the summary.
A) What the EU thinks.
Farmer rests land -> makes less money -> Give grant to make up amaount lost -> lessen food mountain.

B) What the farmer thinks.
Don't want to get off arse and sow 5 feilds with wheat -> Apply for grant and claim i'm 'Resting' it -> Don't have to do as much work, or claim dole -> Getting same income.

They spend millions in Ireland doing this, and more in mainland Europe (No idea if they do it in England, but prob do). Get rid of grants, farmer has to produce more. More wheats and whatnot, more materials for Bio-fuels, and no rise in the 'Food mountain'.

What I want to ask is A) Does that make sense? and B) If asked to, would you vote YES to abolish the grants in favour of more (and cheaper) bio-fuel?

 

[Bugz]

and when these african towns are controlled by militia groups, how do these people get what you send them?

Actually - that's a very good point and one that would have to be taken into consideration (I glossed over this before I'm afraid).

I believe about 25%? of countries in Africa currently have some kind of conflict occurring in them. I couldn't say how they are funded although I know some govt's have been involved in the past.

Again - could this be something MEDC way of life is to blame? Our conflicts have spurred on destructive technology after all.

It just goes to show that the problem the world has created has so many layers that it WOULD take a lot to solve. it does however support the idea that MEDC's are caught up in there somewhere and thus, we should take responsibility appropriately.

Edit - @ Binky - I think ANYTHING that encourages MEDCs to produce a share of biofuels is welcomed by me - especially if it is unused 'rest' land.

Anywho - I am off to bed now and I shall look forward to reading other people's opinions and the such tomorrow evening! Good night

 

[Golena]

Before we delve too much into my past life:

I have been on council estates for about 75% of my life, some of which were located in the nasty end of SE London. My neighborhood is far from posh and my house is a council-built house. Oh and for those who believe I am in private school - I am not. Everything I say - I say from the mindset of a normal everyday person

Please get your facts right before you post nonsense.

Bugz, your arguing your case well so don't take my comments as personal insults.

A council estate (even a rough one) in the south of England is a fairly cushy place to live given many people's alternatives. In fact i'd be pretty hard to find anywhere in the UK that really counted as up against it.
When I say you've had everything handed to you, i'm fairly sure you've never had to fight anyone to get enough to eat. You've never woken up in the morning and really worried that today you wouldn't actually be able to get any food. You've been to a school, private or not it's still a school. I'd imagine that you've never really feared for your life, and seen what happens to you when that moment arrives.

You've never really experienced being up against it, and for the record, neither have I personally. Survival of the fittest isn't simply as you might believe about killing everything near you, it never has been. Co-operating with fellow humans or other animals is needed to survive which is why we should do it. What that doesn't mean is we should blindly try and save everyone on the planet no matter what just because they are a human.. People these days have a horribly unhealthy attitude to death, which is that death is bad. It's going to happen to all of us someday no matter how much we put it off, yet we'll try and eek the last few minutes out of every person possible. When a horse breaks it's leg so it can't live properly anymore, we shoot it in the head. When a human does it we force them to continue existing, if they want to or not.

Now we've got a real resource issue on the planet at the moment. Go watch some nature documentaries and see how other species would deal with the problem. You'll find that maybe us all not making it wouldn't be a big deal for every other specied that evolved. Your arguments all seem to be based around the fact that the human race has stopped evolving, and that we've won. I think stuff like viruses and diseases might have a slightly different outlook on that situation.

Just look at the current climate wars raging on, with the attitude we all need to reduce our energy consumption by 10% or something. No-one has even bothered to ask the question, couldn't we just reduce our numbers by 10%. It's tabu to even think about it, but it's the sensible long term solution for our current over population problem. How that happens is something that's always going to be difficult, but clearly rushing in to help Africa's population double isn't something that's going to make it any easier.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Well apparently we arn't able to feed everyone, otherwise famine wouldn't happen.

Sorry but your view is so incredibly nearsighted that someone should take your vote off you since your about to do something stupid with it!

Yes everyone in Africa could probably be fed if we shipped food to them from around the world where we have enough. Sorry I completely 100% disagree with the concept that what you've just described is in any way a good idea!
People get horribly upset if a plane full of people travels needlessly from here to America, but somehow shipping in millions of tons of food to Africa from somewhere else each day is acceptable!!



So what should we do, go through life simply trying to survive and ensure that no-one anywhere in the world dies, or go through life with some enjoyment doing what we want to do. You appear to think that simply having food and water is enough. Others of us evolved past the point of that when that first ape picked up a piece of wood. Your on a computer game forum.. Why exactly are you playing computer games not either out in a farm producing food or helping transport it to Africa? Or do you think being able to enjoy some spare time playing a game is more important than helping a starving child while spouting that others who are prepared to actually admit that to themselves are pricks?

The "someone dies every 5 seconds" advertising campaign is wonderful and all but pretty much meaningless. Take the population of the earth, divide it by the number of seconds your average person lives for. That's how many people die every second regardless of if you ship them food or not.
Insead of concentrating on how to supply food to keep someone with zero quality of life alive, how about trying to work out how the people here in 200 years can have food and a decent quality of life. Sorry the answer to that does in no way revolve around saving every starving child in Africa. All your doing is believing what someone who wants your money is telling you to do, not actually trying to make it better in the long term. There's a word for people like that.. it's called clueless sheep.. now go Baa like a good sheep!

I am not saying we should ship in food to support the population explosion in Africa. What i am saying is that we should demand everyone in the planet to do as the chinese do and restrict breeding and then help the africans rise on their feet so that we dont have to feed them anymore. Im quite sure ive made this clear in several occasions so try to do read what im actually saying. Now ofcourse some massive war/genocide/famine event could do this aswell (which is what people here are suggesting) but i dont think we have the right to wait for that to happen.

 

[tris-]

I am not saying we should ship in food to support the population explosion in Africa. What i am saying is that we should demand everyone in the planet to do as the chinese do and restrict breeding and then help the africans rise on their feet so that we dont have to feed them anymore. Im quite sure ive made this clear in several occasions so try to do read what im actually saying. Now ofcourse some massive war/genocide/famine event could do this aswell (which is what people here are suggesting) but i dont think we have the right to wait for that to happen.

or why not teach that the africans that when a man and woman fuck a kid is born? youd think they would of worked it out after the 30th kid but obviously not.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well i kept away from this since it's gone way past the point of commenting, as in, too much to comment on...BUT....this just had to be said:

so try to do read what im actually saying.

If that ain't ironic, i'm uncle sam and my bum farts lightning. Just...marvelous.

 

[Golena]

What i am saying is that we should demand everyone in the planet to do as the chinese do and restrict breeding and then help the africans rise on their feet so that we dont have to feed them anymore. Im quite sure ive made this clear in several occasions so try to do read what im actually saying.

How are you planning to police this in villages that don't have a water supply currently? Build a prison to throw people in that have more than one kid? Repopulate them to single sex colonies after they have reproduced? Shoot the second kid born in the head when it pops out? Fine someone without a house or food if they give birth again?

What your saying is that instead of leaving them to get on with it themselves your going to run in with guns and shoot them until they do it your way. What do you do when the first religious person claims they have a right to have more than one kid? Your saying we need to educate them.. What you actually mean is impose your view on how they should live on them. Having one kid each and no famine is your view on how they should live their life. What do you do if they disagree?

 

[Gorbachioo]

or why not teach that the africans that when a man and woman fuck a kid is born? youd think they would of worked it out after the 30th kid but obviously not.

And they called me a racist...

 

[tris-]

And they called me a racist...

what exactly is racist about what i said?

heres some definitions of racist since you dont actually know what it means

define: racist - Google Search

 

[Gorbachioo]

How are you planning to police this in villages that don't have a water supply currently? Build a prison to throw people in that have more than one kid? Repopulate them to single sex colonies after they have reproduced? Shoot the second kid born in the head when it pops out? Fine someone without a house or food if they give birth again?

What your saying is that instead of leaving them to get on with it themselves your going to run in with guns and shoot them until they do it your way. What do you do when the first religious person claims they have a right to have more than one kid? Your saying we need to educate them.. What you actually mean is impose your view on how they should live on them. Having one kid each and no famine is your view on how they should live their life. What do you do if they disagree?

Im not saying its easy. One way to do it i guess would be to deny aid untill the goverments have sorted it out. As in village by village. Its either that or the war/genocide/famine thing i talked about. Either one WILL happen sooner or later and i think its our duty to work it out. If we fail then it happens, but thats not an excuse not to try. (If you want to, we can discuss ways of doing it)

Well if they choose to destroy their societies then we cant help them. But if they realise what has to be done then we should help them do that. All you need is 51% of the people anyway. And dont forget that the chinese have done it already and things in their rural communities arent that much different from Africa. (And yes i know it hasnt worked perfectly, but there has been alot of progress)

 

[Gorbachioo]

what exactly is racist about what i said?

heres some definitions of racist since you dont actually know what it means

define: racist - Google Search

Tris just go live your little life and ignore others. You have no responsibility for anyone so enjoy that!

 

[tris-]

Tris just go live your little life and ignore others. You have no responsibility for anyone so enjoy that!

is that another way to say you were wrong?

 

[Gorbachioo]

is that another way to say you were wrong?

Yes ok, you'e not a racist. Happy now? I never actually said that though, but you have to agree that its a little wierd that i get called a racist when you and tohtori make comments like that.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Interesting Gorb, you're not doing anything but voting to help, while i am actually, yet i'm the a-hole.

You're ignoring all points i've made and call my posts ignorant, yet you're the one who's misunderstood.

I'm not a racist, nor have i called you one, but somehow, in your little world, it's happened.

And funny enough:

"One way to do it i guess would be to deny aid untill the goverments have sorted it out."

I said this on another thread and you called me a racist.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Interesting Gorb, you're not doing anything but voting to help, while i am actually, yet i'm the a-hole.

You're ignoring all points i've made and call my posts ignorant, yet you're the one who's misunderstood.

I'm not a racist, nor have i called you one, but somehow, in your little world, it's happened.

And funny enough:

"One way to do it i guess would be to deny aid untill the goverments have sorted it out."

I said this on another thread and you called me a racist.

And what exactly did you say? I find that hard to believe. Also, it was just one suggestion. Its a tricky subject but i know that it theres an answer. If the chinese made it work then why cant the africans?

I vote and try to change peoples attitudes. Those are the two things that might solve the problem. And if you feel that i have ignored some of your points then repost them and i'll comment on them.

 

[tris-]

Yes ok, you'e not a racist. Happy now? I never actually said that though, but you have to agree that its a little wierd that i get called a racist when you and tohtori make comments like that.

i never called you a racist, so i dont know what the hell youre going on about.

what exactly is wrong with my comment?

 

[Chronictank]

And what exactly did you say? I find that hard to believe. Also, it was just one suggestion. Its a tricky subject but i know that it theres an answer. If the chinese made it work then why cant the africans?

I vote and try to change peoples attitudes. Those are the two things that might solve the problem. And if you feel that i have ignored some of your points then repost them and i'll comment on them.

The Chinese never got to the state the african nations have, their government developed naturally without outside intervention for the most part
most of all though they have money and economic stability

 

[old.Tohtori]

And what exactly did you say? I find that hard to believe. Also, it was just one suggestion. Its a tricky subject but i know that it theres an answer. If the chinese made it work then why cant the africans?

I vote and try to change peoples attitudes. Those are the two things that might solve the problem. And if you feel that i have ignored some of your points then repost them and i'll comment on them.

If it's just one suggestion, how did you find it "reasonable" to bash down my "suggestion" with racism claims etc on the other thread?

About reposting points i've made, how about...no. Read up yourself and notice what you've ignored. I'm not here to please you.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Interesting Gorb, you're not doing anything but voting to help, while i am actually, yet i'm the a-hole.

And btw, i have done the little things too. Ive given money to charity, ive bought the energy saving lamps, ive controlled my water use etc. I just didnt want to make an issue out of it because i know that its nothing. So dont use that on me.