Iraq-Was it worth it ?

[L_Plates]

Oh yes im sure they will. They have already got some of the old police for who was known for killing people back into the so called NEW police force.


Just admit it America are in there for everything they can get.

 

[Ash!]

Originally posted by Flamin_Squirrel
Yeah I agree

I just hope when the Americans have got what they went in for (and i dont think it was oil) and things have settled down that they will benefit from being able to establish a government in a way they see fit.

I trust you mean the Iraqi people will be able to establish a government they see fit. I have a big problem with the whole American World Democracy tour 2001-2003. If the Iraqi's decide that they do not want Democracy then they should be allowed to live in the way they choose. I feel that will not be good enough for Bush etal. He seems to be hell bent on turning all countries in the world to his brand of Democracy and freedom. Freedom is just an illusion regardless of any country you live in

Regardless of whether Saddam has gone or not, the Majority of Iraqi people are still staring down the Barrel of somebody elses gun, its just somebody else is pulling the trigger

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I did indeed mean the people.

Yes you might be right about still being staring down the barrel of a gun, but hopefully democracy will be the 1st step to stoping that kind of thing.

 

[L_Plates]

Originally posted by Ash!
I trust you mean the Iraqi people will be able to establish a government they see fit. I have a big problem with the whole American World Democracy tour 2001-2003. If the Iraqi's decide that they do not want Democracy then they should be allowed to live in the way they choose. I feel that will not be good enough for Bush etal. He seems to be hell bent on turning all countries in the world to his brand of Democracy and freedom. Freedom is just an illusion regardless of any country you live in

Regardless of whether Saddam has gone or not, the Majority of Iraqi people are still staring down the Barrel of somebody elses gun, its just somebody else is pulling the trigger

At last someone i agree with


Bush is a power freak and expects everyone else to live the way he thinks is right !!

Well im sorry but he has no fucking chance. The iraq people would rather chop of there own nuts than live under american ideas and rules. AND I DONT BLAME THEM !

 

[Will]

What if George W. Bush had been President in 1941?

 

[L_Plates]

 

[Arnor]

flaming squirrel is kidding yeah?

surely noone can be _that_ gone?


anywhoo, ha-ha if your kidding


if your not, then im sorry. seriously...

 

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Kidding about what?

 

[dysfunction]

Originally posted by Ash!
If the Iraqi's decide that they do not want Democracy then they should be allowed to live in the way they choose. I feel that will not be good enough for Bush etal.

It sounds to me as though you have a problem with Democracy?

Although there is a flaw in your argument. ...

As you say if the people choose not to have a democracy...how can they choose if they are NOT a democracy???

There is no point getting rid of a dictatorship and replacing it with another. I bet if you ask most Iraqi's if they would like to be back under Saddam type rule again or have the freedoms offered by democracy (not ruled by America! but with people they have chosen) I bet they would choose Democracy anyday!!

 

[old.ignus]

Why oh why did we have to give up our empire. The American's would be begging us to join them if we hadn't. And Europe could fuck off.

 

[GDW]

America is only doing what Britain did in the last century, which to put it very basically was to put their stamp on weaker nations and exploit them.

Its all very well slagging off the US but wouldnt it be a bit more constuctive to say what they should be doing to stamp out terrorism... or am I loosing touch and is terrorism allowed now.

 

[Testin da Cable]

Originally posted by old.ignus
Why oh why did we have to give up our empire. The American's would be begging us to join them if we hadn't. And Europe could fuck off.

I love you Ignus

 

[L_Plates]

Originally posted by old.ignus
Why oh why did we have to give up our empire. The American's would be begging us to join them if we hadn't. And Europe could fuck off.

:great:

 

[xane]

Originally posted by old.ignus
Why oh why did we have to give up our empire. The American's would be begging us to join them if we hadn't. And Europe could fuck off.

Er, what do you mean by "give up", a majority of the British Empire was not given up willingly but became independent by some form of national concensus, achieved either through war (America, Zimbabwe) or by politics (India), or by agreement (Hong Kong).

Secondly, if we did have our empire then America would be part of it and there'd be no begging. In fact there wouldn't be a war in the first place as Iraq would have been part of the empire too as it was conceeded to us from the Ottomans after WW1

 

[SoWat]

What Britain did after WW1 is being repeated, almost exactly, by the US.

It's not a desire to give the Iraqi people democracy, it's a desire to ensure that a 'friendly' government is in place (a democracy would be a nice side-benefit) to provide the US with oil... all managed by US firms of course.

One good side effect is that the US *may* not resort to drilling in Antarctic now it has almost secured another supply.

 

[Sichama]

SoWat don't get me wrong i totaly agree with you its just that...

try using this line..

Originally posted by SoWat
One good side effect is that the US *may* not resort to drilling in Antarctic now it has almost secured another supply.

... to people that lost their loved ones during the war...
... lets see what reply you will get.

 

[SoWat]

I didn't mean it to come across as "Great, now the US won't drill in Antarctica... well worth the deaths"!

Like most ordinary citizens, I hold our armed forces lives in higher regard than than governments do.

 

[Ash!]

Originally posted by dysfunction
It sounds to me as though you have a problem with Democracy?

Although there is a flaw in your argument. ...

As you say if the people choose not to have a democracy...how can they choose if they are NOT a democracy???

There is no point getting rid of a dictatorship and replacing it with another. I bet if you ask most Iraqi's if they would like to be back under Saddam type rule again or have the freedoms offered by democracy (not ruled by America! but with people they have chosen) I bet they would choose Democracy anyday!!

On the contrary I have no problem at all with Democracy. Maybe there is a flaw in my logic but what I meant was that the Iraqi people should chose to live and run their country as they see fit.

Iran has moved to a more moderate islamic society as has Syria. You can say terrorism is still sponsored by the state. How different is that from the IRA fundraising on the streets of New York up until a few years ago.

What I have a problem with is that America and to some smaller degree is coercing the Iraqi people into a society that they may not want nor may it work for them anyway. Just as they have done in Afghanistan.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Ash!
Iran has moved to a more moderate islamic society as has Syria. You can say terrorism is still sponsored by the state. How different is that from the IRA fundraising on the streets of New York up until a few years ago.

You cannot use the word "moderate" in the same sentence discussing Syria. Maybe in the days of the previous ruler you could consider Syria had moved a long way since the days of Al Nidal.

Syria has become even more hardline since the current president came to power after the death of his father, he is Ba'athist to the extreme, the same kind of poltical views as Saddam Hussein, and the country is one of the more tightly controlled dictatorships in the ME with almost no internal foreign influence. Syria still has continued political control of Lebanon and is the only country opposed to normalizing relationships with Israel, an agreement ratified by all the other neighbouring countries, it is holding up the entire peace process.

Where Syrian sponsored terrorism deviates from the IRA is that it is government controlled and directed against Syria's enemies (mainly Israel) using the excuse of Palestinian freedom or religion. Whilst there is sympathy to the IRA cause in America, I doubt they get weapons from them and have set up training camps.

Syria is not an "islamic" country in the same vein as Iran or Saudi Arabia, it is more correctly an "arab nationalist" country, the religion has little to do with it, Syria antagonises it's arab islamic neighbours (Jordon, Turkey, Lebanon) as much as it does Israel, just like Iraq, it has no respect for its "muslim brothers".

 

[Wij]

You scare me sometimes man

 

[r32]

The war in Iraq was totally worth it. We got at least 2 weeks with Comical Ali on the telly every day. In fact, I reckon we should start on some more backwards countries to see if there are any more government ministers with a gift for comedy out there.