Iran

[xane]

Also about the Iranian president, he's just trying to get his people united behind him and the best way to do that as Hitler and many other have found out is to blame a particular group of people.

The problem is, you never seem to hear about whats really going on in Iran.

 

[Mofo8]

Despite the fact that the Iranian PM may be a nutter, there's a fair amount of stuff supporting his claims:

The official numbers of jews killed at the Auschwitz camp complex has went from 9,000,000 (in an French documentary called Night and Fog) down to 135,000 (estimate based on documents held by the International Tracing Service of the Red Cross and corroborated by the German records captured by the Soviets and released to the Red Cross in 1989)

While the Auschwitz figure has come down the infamous 6,000,000 figure has not. Why?

I've no doubt that a large number of people died in these camps before and during WW2 (including a great number of non-jews), but why should it be a crime (as it is in many countries) to question the amount, and the method of their deaths? There's evidence that devastating typhus outbreaks were common in camps like these (as well as among the German civilian population during late WW2).

Zyklon B, the gas said to be using in the gas chambers was designed for delousing buildings - killing human body lice that are responsible for the spread of typhus. Experts have pointed out that the gas chambers at Auschwitz weren't air-tight and would have killed German's billeted across the road.

The official website of the camp admits that the gas chambers have been "partially" reconstructed.

It does appear as if this is the one area of history where one isn't allowed to ask questions. The Nazi's own estimates of the number of jews under their control was 4.5 million..... and 4.3 million individual claims for compensation were lodged with the West German government.

 

[ECA]

Shh mofo, rational thought is illegal, the thought police will be onto you in a flash.

 

[JBP|]

I wish i was allowed to post my opinions on these threads.

 

[Furr]

Why can't the EU gets its act together and form the european empire and fulfill the bibles prophecies. Then the world can ph33r us......

 

[Escape]

America called Iran out, by labelling it an 'Axis of Evil' and ripe for 'regime change'.

The plan of attack was probably:
2002 : Afghanistan
2003: Iraq
2004 : Iran
2005 : Syria

Four puppet governments later, the case for North Korea would be reviewed.

But Iraq's resistance ruined the schedule and Afghanistan is becoming harder to control. With America's resources tied up, the Iranian PM isn't going to wait around and bend over for GI Joe when he comes. He's devious or loopy enough to call out Israel and get the war started.

If only there was some possible way to remove our dependecy on oil, the rest of the world could then just leave the middle east. Then the Arabs would suddenly be back where they started.

Living in a hot, sandy area that no else cares about. We would be happy as there would be no need to be there, and the arabs would be happy because... well they'd probably end up killing each other, but it wouldn't be our problem.

Dude, read up on Middle Eastern history and find out what was going on there when Europe was barely literate

 

[Jonaldo]

Dude, read up on Middle Eastern history and find out what was going on there when Europe was barely literate

Then have a look what's happened since we learned to read and write.

 

[Furr]

Yes i know that there was a bunch of loverly empires there and its the cradle of human development.

Im not saying that they didn't achieve much they did have great empires and were arguably the cradle of human civilisation, although there are other locations like the Indus valley in the former greater India, now Pakistan, but they do (and always have) lived in a hot sandy area, and these days the middle east is controlled either by Monarchy's, Dictatorships or Islamic goverments following an extreme interpretation of the Koran. Iraq is technically now the only democracy in the area. Its all very good looking back at History but in this day and age they are backward.

Only the subject of Iraq... I don't think its going to last, I think whats going to happen is that when our military's leave they will quickly turn out to be a country just like Iran. With more oil.....

Ultimately I blame the Germans, if they hadn't bankrupted europe with 2 world wars maybe we the european empire's wouldn't have had to leave so fast, and maybe when the emipre were de-contructed they would have spent more time on sorting out proper borders and countries. But what has been done has been done.

But the empires were a good thing as they did spread democracy to some countries. Going back to India, yes Pakistan was a mistake, but India is now the largest stable demorcracy in the world instead of being a multitude of countries killing each other. So the British empire wasn't all that bad

 

[Tom]

But the first world war eliminated a large proportion of the monarchies that you apparently don't like - so much so that our own royal house changed its name to help avoid a similar fate.....

 

[Furr]

argh... well... I blame religion then...

I find it odd that Islam, Christianity and Judadism all stem from the same strain of religion. And now they all kill each other and other sects in their own religion.

Ban the practice of religion for world peace!

//can i just admit that im ranting and nothing i say here has been thought out.... im sorry, i'll try better from now on. Dont ban me please...

 

[Escape]

If democracy is so great, why does America fix it's elections?

 

[throdgrain]

But the empires were a good thing as they did spread democracy to some countries. Going back to India, yes Pakistan was a mistake, but India is now the largest stable demorcracy in the world instead of being a multitude of countries killing each other. So the British empire wasn't all that bad

British Empire was fucking great I thoguht

 

[xane]

Despite the fact that the Iranian PM may be a nutter, there's a fair amount of stuff supporting his claims:

His claim is that the whole thing was a "myth", that's rather different from just questioning numbers.

 

[Shovel]

His claim is that the whole thing was a "myth", that's rather different from just questioning numbers.

Precisely. Furthermore whilst Mofo8 may have a point regarding the 'untouchable' state of Holocaust statistics, it's quite important not to get sidetracked from the reasons *why* the Iranian loon was up there saying what he said.

A quest for the improved accuracy of c20 European history books this ain't.

 

[Gengi]

I think one of the points that may have been missed here is the fact that the President of Iran is a follower of the cult of the Mhadi.

That is quite possibly a far more pertinent thing to be thinking about as Iran gets its hands on Nuclear weapons, as the Mhadi cult believes that the Mhadi will come and rule the earth only after some sort of big stylee war, an armageddon if you will, he is the moslem equivalent of Jesus doing the repeat act.

When religious nutters, of whatever stripe, get into places of power with the means and the opportunity to achieve what they believe is right then its time to sit up and take note.

Just my take on it


later

 

[Tom]

I think its safe to assume that Iran will never be allowed to possess nuclear weapons.

 

[Will]

What are we going to do, invade them? I'm sure that would lead to more hatred of the West. And it isn't like we are following our obligations under the NPT either.

Sorry, this is really something for another thread.

 

[Tom]

If the USA doesn't do it, Israel will.

 

[throdgrain]

I think its safe to assume that Iran will never be allowed to possess nuclear weapons.

I wish that were true, but I cant be so certain

 

[old.Tohtori]

And who, pray do tell, SHOULD own nuclear weapons?

 

[Whipped]

Santa?

 

[SheepCow]

No one should, all they will do these days is lead to the end of the planet. Why can't we all just get along? *****.

 

[throdgrain]

And who, pray do tell, SHOULD own nuclear weapons?

In an ideal world no one of course
In the real world, WE should

 

[Guest]

You can only have nukes if the americans say its ok, apart from if you get the russian scientists to make yours for you, like the chinese did, but we are scared of them so we dont invade, we just let them run people over in tanks and then make trade agreements with them. Double standards anyone ?

 

[ECA]

Absolutely not brooky, because china are our friends, so they can torture people and supress human rights, its those ragheads in the desert we should be worried about.

:touch:

 

[throdgrain]

Oh gord you idealists
Theres no point going on about that stuff, we have to deal in reality nothing else.
(I do agree with you though, its ludicrous)

 

[old.user4556]

And who, pray do tell, SHOULD own nuclear weapons?

Certainly not Iran/Iraq.

I think there is a difference between a "peace loving country " like the UK/USA having nuclear weapons and immature countries with poor control harbouring extremists.

If the person in power is an extremist (which the Iranian PM sounds like he us), i'd imagine he'd use them or threaten them without thinking twice.

Personally, I think the west should invade, bulldoze the entire country and take the oil - stop all this fucking about and politics. Show them who's in charge.*






























* meant to be read with humour

 

[Uncle Sick]

Personally, I think the west should invade, bulldoze the entire country and take the oil - stop all this fucking about and politics. Show them who's in charge.*

I fully agreed with you up to this point:

* meant to be read with humour

 

[Mofo8]

I think one of the points that may have been missed here is the fact that the President of Iran is a follower of the cult of the Mhadi.

That is quite possibly a far more pertinent thing to be thinking about as Iran gets its hands on Nuclear weapons, as the Mhadi cult believes that the Mhadi will come and rule the earth only after some sort of big stylee war, an armageddon if you will, he is the moslem equivalent of Jesus doing the repeat act.

When religious nutters, of whatever stripe, get into places of power with the means and the opportunity to achieve what they believe is right then its time to sit up and take note.

Just my take on it


later

So.... that makes it perfectly OK to fully support the state of Israel whose foundation is based solely on the fact that THEY say they are God's chosen people, and that God gave them that land. I'm not anti-semitic, but I abhor Zionism.... the idea that the jews have a God-given right to that land, and that because of that they can justify any ongoing mistreatment of Palestinians/arabs. Plus.... they're still waiting on their messiah.

Then you have the ungodly alliance they've got with the Christian right in America. They too, like the Mhadi, believe in one big happy cleansing Armageddon, when all us sinners will be left on Earth to suffer the wars, plagues and famines while the chosen are raptured up into Heaven. They would appear to have a lot in common with the Iranian PM.

It is pretty amazing that the three great monotheistic religions, who have so much in common, can't get on a bit better.... but people like Bush and Ariel Sharon should bear as much responsibility for this as the Saddam Husseins, Bin Ladens and Mahmoud Ahmadinejads of this world. Bollocks to the lot of them!

 

[old.user4556]

I fully agreed with you up to this point:

I threw that in to prevent the PC brigade getting ripped into me.