ipad 3

[Bodhi]

I had an iPad for about 3 weeks. Got given it by work so I could get to grips with our mobile application. I ended up giving to it another guy on the team, as I couldn;t find anything it was actually good at. It was ok for browsing the web, until you either a) wanted to type something or b) needed Flash, in which case it became useless. The apps I found were OK, but you had to pay for them when the Android equivalent was free. Then I found out our app actually runs better in the browser of an Android Tablet than on an iPad. Oh and the battery life sucked massive amounts of cock, it wouldn;t remember out corporate wireless password for love nor money, and putting iOS 5 on it made it all sluggish and horrible.

Most overrated bag of shit I have ever used personally. Yes it was slick in places, and fairly easy to use, however no slicker or easier than my Xperia X10 smartphone, so the entire experience left me thoroughly whelmed. But it was shiny, so I expect it would be great for poncing about Starbucks looking important.

Think I'll ust have the Sony one instead tbh. Much nicer design, seems even slicker and has a TV remote in it too. I admire what they've done with the Tablet P as well, even if the black bar that links the screens gets in the way a bit. Still good to see someone trying something different, and not a "Look, we've got an iPad too!".

 

[Raven]

My sister in law has a ipad 2 which she was showing off about, I had a go and the only thing I could find on it that was even remotely useful was angry birds. Which is better on my andriod anyway (its free!).

Giant phone is giant phone

 

[soze]

My favourite apps are XBMC Commander, Mobile RSS HD and My NZB (all multiplatform) which lets me do my thing with no PC from anywhere. They are only useful if you have a way to fit them into your life. It is instant on so easier than booting my PC 90% of the time.

 

[Keitanz]

Keitanz have you tried, not for 5 minutes but tried properly an iPad and an Android tab? A fair few guys in work who are massively anti apple have changed there mind since being given one in work. I am similar i hate the cocky adverts but the devices and OS are solid.

I am going to give up defending them now but if the3 comes out with an IR sender and a screen option between 7 and 8 inches I will buy it.

Like wise with the asus tablet though, you don't really know which one you will prefer until you try.

But the Asus tab I linked above has far better specs than the iPad2.. and I doubt the iPad3 will improve that much over the iPad2 but we shall see... not to mention it's Android so it's better anyway

 

[soze]

I am lucky in that at my work we get to play with anything we are supposed to support so I have played with a few Android tabs. The only one that made we want to drop the money and replace the iPad was the Sony. I only have an iPad 1 and will only upgrade at full price if a device ticks all the boxes.

 

[Keitanz]

If I had the choice of getting an iPad2 for £100-150 I would, but not for anywhere near £300...... tbh it's same with all tablets.

 

[Hawkwind]

its more the restrictions of apps that can go on itunes that will kill the apple products if anything ... so retarded ...

Android market has much more variety ... and they both have the same amount of crap.

And i bet on samsung not sony.. think sony have had their day and are on the decline now ...

VITA i mean

Android app market is more also open to abuse by hackers. At least Apple keep some semblance of control and test all the apps for security issues. There have been one or two that slipped through the net but there are no major controls on the Android apps that I have seen. Not an apple phone user btw, BB for me due to work and can't be arsed to carry 2 phones. I do not like the iPhone as a phone product but I do have iPad and iTouch. The App store is great and you know things have been tested.

 

[Zenith.UK]

The guy in charge of the IT dept at work is pro-Apple. His desk is like an advert for all things Apple.
If work brought in iPads, iPhones or anything else Apple for us guys in the field, I would just hand them straight back. I literally would not accept them.

Right now I'm trialling out a BB Playbook to see if it fulfils our needs. Yes it does, but there are some things that would stop us from choosing it for everyone. In itself, it's an adequate piece of kit. Compared to others it's sorely lacking.

 

[caLLous]

A no-contract 16GB iPhone 4S sells for $649. According to its analysis, Apple pays $188 for the components per unit and $8 for the manufacturing. Costs of $196 on a $649 device make for profits of nearly 70 per cent.

I knew their margins were high but I didn't know they made that much on each one. No wonder they've got so much cash (and so many unhappy employees in their supply chain).

 

[soze]

Yeah Apple do not seem a very friendly company. Appalling work conditions and a lot of we never know it was that bad excuses. And no donations made to charity even though it could get them a tax break.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

$8 manufacturing, that's a disgrace

 

[MYstIC G]

Android app market is more also open to abuse by hackers. At least Apple keep some semblance of control and test all the apps for security issues. There have been one or two that slipped through the net but there are no major controls on the Android apps that I have seen. Not an apple phone user btw, BB for me due to work and can't be arsed to carry 2 phones. I do not like the iPhone as a phone product but I do have iPad and iTouch. The App store is great and you know things have been tested.

Approved does not = tested

If it did then they wouldn't have let through all the tethering apps, etc.

 

[Edmond]

I love it when people make these cost comparisons, yes they make 70% on the phone, but then do you think the stores have free rent/utilities and do all the staff work for free?

No of course not, its the same in all industries, people look at the raw figures and get all shitty, the final true profit on any product be it apple or anthing else is around 10%, and thats considered good

and dont forget that you then have 20% tax to pay on the profit too

 

[Keitanz]

Err Edmond? what? even if they got $20 profit each iPhone they'd still make a huge profit after paying all the bills.. purely because they sell so many of the god damn things..

Then they make all that money from the App Store (Apple take quite a lot of money from that..).. then iTunes and all that bullshit..

When I last checked, the Playstation 3 was actually costing Sony more than they were selling it for... the only profit they made were from games.. and they are still making a crap ton of money..


Not sure how you can defend them on this one... tbh I don't think they would be as successful if their products were half the price.. a lot of their fans are the kind of people who think the more expensive something is the better it is.

 

[Edmond]

No one said anything about how much money was made form apps and iTunes, we were talking about the phone itself, i was stating that people always look at the raw cost of a product and compare that to the selling price and think that the difference is pure profit, its not.

If you read what i said........i wasn't defending apple, i stated that all industries come under the same critisism because people dont look at other costs that come into play when running businesess.


By your logic, Sony should sell thier PS3 for £600 so they do make a profit, because if they sold it any cheaper, it wouldn't sell......oh hang on

 

[Keitanz]

People buy PS3's because they are the best console out there at the moment.. iPhone's are not the best phone out there yet people still buy them, you have to ask yourself why.. a lot use the build quality argument but a lot of phones are built insanely well..

Fact of the matter is they could be making $10-20 profit per phone and still be making a shit ton of profit after all the bills from the phones alone..

70% profit is just a disgrace for any company..

 

[Edmond]

What...???

Did you read what i said, they are not making 70% profit, you are looking at the difference of the raw cost to produce based on what they sell it for, that is not profit.

It then costs a company money to package, ship, advertise a product. They need a store to sell it in, staff to man that store, it all costs money

I wouldn't be suprised if they are only making $20 per phone, and yes because they sell loads of them they make a shed load of money. Seriously if the product was that shit then it would have stopped selling by now, its been on the market long enought for people to choose whether to buy i or not

I fit windows for my job, i buy a window for £300 and fit it for £485, by your reconing i make £185 profit? No, there is the cost of my premises to store the window in between delivery and fitting, the cost of the running of the van (deisel, tax, insurance) to get to the job. there are sundries like sealents and cleaners. I then have to dispose of the window we take out, skips are not cheap and i go through one every 7-10 days, and my fitters do not work for free, they get £60 per window that they fit

I am lucky to make £40 profit on that window, and then i have to pay £8.00 tax on that profit. So i am left with about £32.00. That is before i take a wage

 

[Keitanz]

Not saying that at all.. according to http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2117683/apple-confirms-million-iphone-4s-sales Apple have sold 4million of it's latest iPhone the 4S..

453 dollars multiplied by 4 million sales is $1,812,000,000 pre packaging/shipping/advertising etc

I really doubt advertising/shipping/packaging and all the other crap cost even 20% of that.. they are making a HUGE profit per phone even after all the costs, simply because they sell so many at such a high profit margin before they pay the other bills.


To be honest that 4million seems low.. http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/04/20/apple-sold-18-65-million-iphones-in-q2-2011/ says 18.65m iPhone's were sold in the second quarter of 2011, includes every iPhone though but still..

 

[old.user4556]

People buy PS3's because they are the best console out there at the moment.. iPhone's are not the best phone out there yet people still buy them

That's completely subjective and opinion.

The "best" is measured on what is the right product for you.

 

[Ch3tan]

Your argument is far too simplistic Ed. Apple don't need a store to sell it in, their stores are just there for advertising, because they can AFFORD to have a very shiney overstaffed store to promote their products. The store is not there purely for the iphone either, so you cannot begin to justify a 10% net profit.

You do realise the majority of iphones are stored and sold by other companies, mainly the mobile networks. The profit apple make from the iphone, and the price premium they charge is DISGUSTING. Compared to a samsung, htc or sony top end phone, the iphone is around £150 more and probably costs less to make. And that is without discussing the ethical implications of their manufacturer, foxconn.

 

[Keitanz]

That's completely subjective and opinion.

The "best" is measured on what is the right product for you.

Well it's either xbox 360 or ps3.. two products if you want top end gaming and you don't want to bother with a PC... compare that to the 100's of phones and that's what I was trying to say ;c

 

[Edmond]

Just as an instance, Nike spend $1.2 billion per year on advertising alone. and Adidas $900 million. These people spend so much on pushing thier products you wouldn't believe

So lets say you invent a product that you sell 4 million units of, and you make £20 profit (after everything is paid for, in you hand) are you going to say to the end user,

"here, have £15 back cos i feel so guilty by making so much money"

???????

Going back to what i was initially trying to say, apple do not make $453 pure profit on an iPhone, they make good money, yes, because they have a product that sells very, very well, whether you agree with it or not. My arguement was not trying to defend or slag off Apple, i dont care if like them or hate them tbh

They are hardly going get to sales of 1 million and say, "well i think we have sold enough of that, so lets take it off the market", that would be industrial suicide for a company

Also i forgot to mention, what about development costs for all these phones and gadgets that get sold, that must run into millions too?

 

[Edmond]

That's completely subjective and opinion.

The "best" is measured on what is the right product for you.

Exactlly, and if someone is willing to pay £150 more for an iPhone rather than a HTC or Galaxy, then let them do it, Apple aren't gonna stop them are they, and if it were your company and could see the $$ signs racking up, you wouldn't either

 

[Keitanz]

I actually know a lot of people who have only bought iPhone's just because their friends have one.

Nike/Adidas do sooo much more advertising than Apple it's a joke really.. sponsoring sportsmen and a crap ton of adverts etc... can't really compare those especially since it's the mobile phone companies who do most advertising for Apple.

 

[old.user4556]

@Edmond, indeed.

Samsung Galaxy S2 sim free - £450

+

iPod Touch 8GB - £169

Total = £619

or:

iPhone 4S 16 GB sim free = £500

Total = £500

This was the clincher for me, a "phone and iPod" for less than an Android handset. In addition, the iPhone 4S is still going to command good money 12 to 18 months down the line, I reckon you'll get at least £200 back on it if it's in mint condition which makes the total cost ownership of the handset even cheaper.

Granted, you can put music on the S2 and use it for music like an iPod, but the whole iTunes integration and the absolute ease of having iTunes and iPod functionality built into the handset makes it an instant hit with Joe Public.

 

[soze]

Are people saying Apple should drop the price because it costs so little? That's crazy Apple will charge what people are willing to pay. I agree that the factories that make it should pay a lot more to the staff but if you can sell 7 million handsets for £500 plus you will. The reason Android phones are so much cheaper imo is because of the choice. There are 5 or more high end handsets at all times and that changes every 6 months. You want iOS you get a iPhone simple as it makes setting the price easy.

 

[Vae]

In terms of Gross margins for Apple a 3.5 ratio between retail price and manufacturing price would not seem unusual (it can be as high as 10+ times for luxury fashion brands) as Apple are a cross between a luxury brand and a commodity brand. However, as Edmond pointed out, this is not the whole picture.

In terms of making a profit Apple will have Retail, Wholesale and itunes income streams. The wholesale price to the mobile phone companies for the £499 (which is £416 exc VAT) model might be £250 to their cost of £125 ($196 quoted above) giving a profit per item of £125 (gross margin 50%). (the Mobile companies would then get the £166 profit to cover their costs).

For retail it would probably break down as follows:
Sale price £499
less VAT (£83)
Net sale price £416
less Cost (£125)
Gross profit per iphone £291 (70%)
less staff costs (£42) (say 10% of net sales for a large turnover company like Apple)
less Rent/Rates (£63) (say 15% for Apple)
less other store costs (£42) (Repairs, Utilities, marketing materials etc)
Net Profit £144 (34.6%)

These net contributions then have to cover the R&D costs, Marketing and Advertising, Head office costs, Despatch, Warehousing etc.

Apples last quarter results show a 28.5% net margin (presumably after tax) of $13.06b from turnover of $46.33. Gross margin was 44.7% partly due to the mix between Retail and Wholesale or indicating that either the cost price given earlier in the thread is too low (as it doesn't include delivery) or that the margins on their other products are much lower.

Hope that explains the situation a bit more.