Interesting thread

[S-Gray]

Why do i smell a "DAoC type invasion" all over again?

 

[GDW]

Heh just caught up with this thread...well done guys

 

[Xtro]

wonder if Mr H Ussein will post today then..

 

[stu]

You know how annoying it is when loads of total dicks from other forums invade here and make twats of themselves?


*clap clap*

 

[charl8tan]

I like they way the yanks seem to think we are all peaceful etc etc.
Borlz, tbh tbh tbh. Everyone knows that our elite forces are far superior to anything that the yanks have, hell, our army cooks are probably harder than their bloody marines .
Noticed a post on their site by one of ours mentioning the U571 thingy, think it was you tom, wasn't that a case of 'based' on something we, the brits, did as opposed to being total fiction??
I'm sure there's something in the credits about it.
The only thing I like about yanks is their women, lots of fit, easy birds that lurrrrve my accent .

 

[Tom]

Basically, the allies (or more accurately the geniuses in Bletchley Park) were able to crack the U-boat Enigma coding because a German U-boat captain, his boat badly damaged, for some unknown and unfathomable reason, did not destroy the book used to decypher the transmissions received. It would have been as simple as immersing the book in water, as the ink was designed to dissapate when wet.

U-571 is today a German War Grave, located @ 52-41N, 14-27W, and was sunk on the 28th of January 1944 off the west coast of Ireland, in deep water. All hands were lost. The Boat was attacked by a Royal Australian Air Force Shorts Sunderland from 461 Squadron. Oblt. Gustav Lussow was the commander/Captain. The boat had a rather long service life considering the time frame that it served in. The Enigma machines were acquired from U-110, under KptLt Lemp, & U-570, under KptLt Rahmlow. The U.S. Navy also secured an enigma & related code books from U-505, which is on permanent display at the Chicago Museum of Science & Industry. Thus, the storyline & text of the movie 'U-571' is a compilation of several events, but is fictional in it's arrangement. Acyual history will get a good laugh from this particular Hollywood dream-up...

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq91-1.htm

There is a truly excellent documentary from the Channel 4 website, called 'Station X', which does a very good job (over 4x 50min programmes) of explaining the whole Bletchley Park thing.

It's worth noting that the Americans initially poured scorn on the efforts of the code breakers, without whose aid, the war may very well have been lost. Many maritime vessels sailing the Atlantic were saved by the codebreakers (one of whom was the famous Alan Turing)

 

[charl8tan]

Aha, sweet. I know that they saved our asses with the breaking of the code. Makes me laugh that the yanks think they did everything and try to convince the world of this by making movies where the do all the stuff we've done.
And then they try and make sure they cover an even bigger audience by making games where they do everything (cue MOH).

 

[]SK[]

Natrats IRC quit msg is a great example of what your on about here.
Cant find it in my logs but its something like...

"War is gods way of teaching Americans Geography."

Class

 

[doh_boy]

Here's a bit of trivia, if you remember from the enigma film they constantly refered to 'blists' which meant bannister-lists. Now the grand-daughter of the couple who devised them is one of my best-mates




sorry pointless but I had to say it :uhoh:

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Tom[SHOTTEH]
It's worth noting that the Americans initially poured scorn on the efforts of the code breakers, without whose aid, the war may very well have been lost. Many maritime vessels sailing the Atlantic were saved by the codebreakers (one of whom was the famous Alan Turing)

If anything the Americans were actually too eager to exploit the codebreaking, it took monumental effort to prevent them acting on every single broken code to avoid the Germans becoming suspicious, in some cases convoys were actually allowed to be attacked even though the allies knew what would happen.

Some points, before you further demonise the American effort and glorify the British.

1. The Enigma was first broken by the Polish with help from the French spies gaining some blueprints, prior to the war, in fact, prior to the Nazi regime coming to power, they built the first "bombe" codebreaker, which formed the initial design used by Turing, in this matter he was building on the efforts of the unsung Polish geniuses who became trapped in Europe.

2. Codes were broken by brute force whenever the key combinations and code wheels became known (by a find on a sub), Turing was mainly responsible for trimming down the permutations using his mathematical skills, in most cases it was not enough and messages were decoded too late to be of any use, whenever the Germans replaced code books or changed a code wheel, it took months for the British to catch up.

3. The Americans provided the equipment to enable the codebreaking to become useful, Turing only had about a dozen machines to work with, once the Americans got involved he had over 300 and brute force codebreaking became a reality and provided information when it was most needed, not too late.

4. Turing, both during and after the war, was persecuted as a homosexual, he had a very rough time and escaped jail only by his wartime efforts, after the war he was treated just like every "rotton little faggot" by the British establishment, who later in a wave of McCarthyism branded hima security risk. he was eventually convicted and forced to endure hormone treatment to "cure" him, he committed suicide at 41 after eating a cyanide laden apple.

It is also worth noting that Enigma was in use by the Germans since the end of WW1, they considered it unbreakable and the Nazi government continued to think so and used it virtually unchanged until they added a fourth code wheel midway through the war, if anything the _major_ contributor to the codebreaking effort was the reluctance of the Germans to change the system regularly, if they had done so it would have been a different story.

 

[Tom]

i r humbled

 

[old.ignus]

I can't believe I missed the original thread, there was so much material for yank bashing when they started talking about the world wars. Ive been studying both for a while now and could have posted some interesting facts about the americans involvement.

 

[Tom]

Post em here, I'd be interested in that. I love history.

 

[charl8tan]

......changed my mind about typing what I was going to as I'd probably be sued.

 

[danger]

It is nice to see though, that there are some intelligent yanks there... rather than them all being "if you insult the flag I'll kick yo ass bwoy!!!" types. P.S Tom you stole my link

 

[bodhi]

I hope we go to war.It will irritate the living fuck out of the lowest class in our society - the "Not in my Name" unwashed hippies. You also have to remember that wars tend to make better TV and Films than a bunch of tree huggers standing around like retards outside Downing Street. Having said that it never ceases to amuse me when fights start at Anti-War protests.

 

[kameleon]

Not if there isn't anyone around to watch TV.

 

[old.ignus]

now you see thats the opinion of the cowardly "oh we're all sure to die if the war breaks out" bollocks. If its terrorists you're afraid of then be afrad now, I have no doubt that they're plotting some vile scheme as I type this, war or no war they hate us already. Iraq's army will be crushed and will pose no threat, we can all stop watching the skies and oil prices will fall so cheaper fuel for everyone except the taxed Brits, so can somebody please tell me why they don't want a war to happen somewhere else?

 

[xane]

Originally posted by bodhi
Having said that it never ceases to amuse me when fights start at Anti-War protests.

The hypocrisy does not end there.

One prominent group at the big anti-war rally was CND, now correct me if I am wrong but one of the main reasons going to war with Saddam is to prevent him from obtaining the WMD he so desparately wants, specifically nukes, so CND really are saying its okay for him to have nukes or we have to wait until he gets them before we go to war about it. I suppose you have to arm yourself with nukes before you can disarm, so in a way CND are creating a raison d'etre by letting him get them, so presumably they can demonstrate against him later in Baghdad(fat chance).

Another group was Greenpeace. Strange bedfellows for Saddam as Iraq is a major oil producer, in fact that is all Iraq can ever produce of worth, so Iraq is going to promote fossil fuels till its dying day, the main reason for Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was to capture more oilfields and thus increase its standing in OPEC, thereby controlling the oil market for its own purposes, i.e. flooding with cheaper oil and/or increasing the limits on oil production.

Also, during the last Gulf War, the "scorched earth" policy left by the Iraqis was not exactly environmentally friendly, over 600 oil wells burning, some for nearly a year, plus oil poured directly into the gulf, making it the biggest ever oil spill, twice as big as the previous record, and 20 times bigger than the Exxon Valdez oil spill in Alaska.

Of course, the allies are being blamed for environmental damage with their overuse of depleted uranium shells, no mention of the eco-horror perpetrated by the Iraqis, in addition to their liberal usage of chemical and biological weaponry.

I suppose the ultimate in hypocrisy must be american-bashing on the internet, a medium that would not have come into existance without the free-market idealised in the USA and their technological investment at the start

 

[Shocko]

CND - There's no proof whatsoever that Iraq has an active Nuclear policy. Blix's latest report states that it has been dead for many years now. Just because Blair/Bush say that Saddam wants, doesn't mean that does, or that he is attempting to get them.

Greenpeace - Whoever controls Iraq, is going to sell shit loads of oil... It also could be said, that there is some credability to the theory that the US is invading to gain access to Iraq's oil. If this is the case, and it could very well be, then it makes sense that Greenpeace would oppose the war.

If Nuclear weapons and Oil weren't issues, then you would expect these groups to oppose war. Since Nuclear weapons aren't an issue, and all sides want the Oil, it makes total sense that the groups will still be against the war.

Cama, it amazes me that on the various times that the US, or even Israel, has been discussed here, that you've totally abandoned your usual logical thought proccess, and utter sense, in favour of US-Fanboism. I just don't get it...

 

[bodhi]

Originally posted by Shocko
CND - There's no proof whatsoever that Iraq has an active Nuclear policy. Blix's latest report states that it has been dead for many years now. Just because Blair/Bush say that Saddam wants, doesn't mean that does, or that he is attempting to get them.

Greenpeace - Whoever controls Iraq, is going to sell shit loads of oil... It also could be said, that there is some credability to the theory that the US is invading to gain access to Iraq's oil. If this is the case, and it could very well be, then it makes sense that Greenpeace would oppose the war.

If Nuclear weapons and Oil weren't issues, then you would expect these groups to oppose war. Since Nuclear weapons aren't an issue, and all sides want the Oil, it makes total sense that the groups will still be against the war.

Cama, it amazes me that on the various times that the US, or even Israel, has been discussed here, that you've totally abandoned your usual logical thought proccess, and utter sense, in favour of US-Fanboism. I just don't get it...

No. You just talk an inordinate amount of shite.

 

[Daffeh]

havent bothered to read the posts here...

could someone please kill those Yank's on that forum, before they grow up and do the world even more harm!

 

[bodhi]

After having read that other thread, I'm embarassed to know some of you. However, kamelion is getting singled out for particular ridicule, mainly due to not only the complete arse-juice he was posting (Attacking Iraq will start World War 3 eh? Please tell me where the hell you got that one from.) but also due to the fact that he thinks he knows what he's talking about.


In other words....


Dude, shut the fuck up.

 

[Daffeh]

just out of interest, do you EVER contribute ANYTHING worthwhile to a thread Bodhi?

i know i dont exactly add tons of inciteful knowledge to a thread, but you really take the buscuit.

Every post ive seen from you is a flame....chill out man

 

[old.D0LLySh33p]

For what it's worth, I went to the anti-war demo in London, and the one in Canterbury when Blair came to 'visit'.

Call me a tree hugging hippy, whatever...

 

[old.ignus]

And do you feel you achieved something, did you go home afterwards and sit back in your chair all smug and think 'well I've done my bit'

You see thats the problem with these anti war hippies, it makes them feel better to know they were involved in something that was against the war, so what a big group of people decided to go for a walk with stupid banners for one day, then went home and forgot about the whole thing. Those people who have travelled to Iraq and are using themselves as human shields now at least they're doing something that requires effort, stupid but still they're trying. The sooner Tony and George gets the war over with the sooner Tony can get back to sorting out the asylum problem, and the NHS problem, and the Judicial system problem, and the crime problems, and the.....

 

[Ash!]

old.ignus, Bodhi and XANE

Why do you hold the tree huggers and people who dont want conflict in such contempt. I always find it amazing that people like you take the moral high ground to demonise people who basically want to see and end to bloodshed and a peacefull sollution to it all. Of course all the groups you mention have a questionable agenda. No more questionable than the respective governments of the US, UK, Spain and Australia who would have us belive that they are in it to bring Saddam to book.
[/rant]

 

[Wij]

Um, I guess the answer is Moral Cowardice. Because you know your theory 'it could be resolved peacefully' is not going to be put to the test you can take the moral high ground without fear that in the end you will be proved wrong. It's the easy option, having your cake and eating it.

Also it doesn't really matter what the USA's motives are. Points of fact, there are rape gangs punishing dissenting villages. People are being executed. People are starving. Whatever the USA's motives are these will be a lot less common after Saddam has gone. If you thought you were about to be visited by the Fedayeen would you be all that worried about why the USA wanted rid of Saddam or would you just be glad of it ?

 

[Ash!]

Fair Point Wij. Cant disagree with that

 

[throdgrain]

Originally posted by Wij
Um, I guess the answer is Moral Cowardice. Because you know your theory 'it could be resolved peacefully' is not going to be put to the test you can take the moral high ground without fear that in the end you will be proved wrong. It's the easy option, having your cake and eating it.

Also it doesn't really matter what the USA's motives are. Points of fact, there are rape gangs punishing dissenting villages. People are being executed. People are starving. Whatever the USA's motives are these will be a lot less common after Saddam has gone. If you thought you were about to be visited by the Fedayeen would you be all that worried about why the USA wanted rid of Saddam or would you just be glad of it ?

Perhaps everyone here should simply read this and then stfu.

Btw, my comment early in this thread, to whit "cunts tbh" was regarding any form of insult offered by Americans to the British people.
Id sooner be on the Americans side than the French any day of the week. If the French had thier way then the first Gulf war would never had happened , let alone this one.