Interesting discussion topic...well...slightly.

[old.Tohtori]

Claim: Without slavery, there would be no rap music.

Discuss.

Simple meh?

 

[~Yuckfou~]

*waits*

 

[Deadmanwalking]

Troll at 12 o'clock.

Requesting back up over. I say we ban him now and lock this thread, as we all know what is going to happen.

 

[throdgrain]

Another reason that slavery was bad I suppose ...

 

[old.Tohtori]

I actually don't see what this "troll" thing is, since it's thrown at every other post and their cousin.

I just simplified the discussion starter. Just wanted to know other peoples opinions, ideas, views on the matter.

 

[Doh_boy]

No, I think it's an interesting discussion. The inferrence being that rap music came about due to a sense of anger, fustration and rebellion in the Afro-american youth of the 70s. I disagree, while I admit that the atmosphere in america at that time coloured the musical landscape I feel that rap music was just an evolution of music. While it's true that the musical genre's of black america were nurtured by slaves they too were an evolution of the music of their african ancestors. The best you can argue is that without slavery the black americans who contributed to music wouldn't have been alive if not for slavery (their parents wouldn't have met etc).

 

[Bullitt]

If it wasn't for the black influence in early music we'd be left with the fucking riverdance

 

[Doh_boy]

If it wasn't for the black influence in early music we'd be left with the fucking riverdance

I'm not saying that we could do without black music I'm just saying that there didn't need to be african slaves in america for the music to develop.

 

[babs]

I always thought it developed from disco basically.

Anyway, I'm not sure Vanilla Ice comes from a background of slavery.

/me hums Ice Ice Baby for the rest of the afternoon.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well it is believed that hiphop evolved from blues/soul music and that soul music came originally from the slaves of the southern states.(missisippi etc).

I just wonder what an effect it would've had if there was only the "white" music around. Would it be more purely rock 'n roll because there was no soul music and only country music.

Afterall hiphop/rap, nowadays especially, is a lovechild of soul and country.

 

[Doh_boy]

Well it is believed that hiphop evolved from blues/soul music and that soul music came originally from the slaves of the southern states.(missisippi etc).

I just wonder what an effect it would've had if there was only the "white" music around. Would it be more purely rock 'n roll because there was no soul music and only country music.

Afterall hiphop/rap, nowadays especially, is a lovechild of soul and country.

I was under the impression that rock and roll was borne from the afro-americans as well. It was slang for sex, or something. I'd imagine quite a lot would have been different if slavery hadn't happened. Too much has happened since for us (or at least me) to even guess confidently about what would be different. Personally I feel music would have evolved much as it has done but maybe africa would have been more influtential.

 

[Bullitt]

I'm not saying that we could do without black music I'm just saying that there didn't need to be african slaves in america for the music to develop.

It was tongue in cheek, i'm not saying we would need to be that to develop. What i think though is that (like animation or any creative form) we borrowed a hell of a lot from their style to evolve and create our own.

Like america produced animation (Disney), the East took it and made it their own and now we're borrowing that style back to influence our western style again.

I beleive this is also true with early music.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Actually i think anime is older then the disney style of animation.

Atleast in book form, not sure about the video format. Have to check up a bit of info on that one before i can say for sure.

But true, noone can say what the music would be these days if this or that was different in the past, but i like to speculate.

Take games for instance, what if Wolfenstein was a flop to begin with and FPS never would've evolved to such a "big thing" in the industry?

 

[granny]

The conditions that rap music came out of were nothing to do with slavery but a product of late-20th century capitalism. Those social conditions would have come about with or without slavery, the slavery was just a factor in it being blacks who were more likely to be impoverished bearing the brunt of a harsh and racist social climate.

Let's be honest too, even if there wasn't a large slave-descended black population which were the focus of the racism it would have been someone else, Mexicans, Hispanics, whatever. Maybe without slavery something like rap would have come out of a more predominantly Hispanic culture instead?

 

[old.user4556]

Granny has a fair point.

But I agree with the first point, music as we know it today decended from blacks and in turn slavery.

Without BB King / Chuck Berry etc there would probably have been no Beatles (afterall they did cover his songs to start with), no rock'n'roll, no rap, no soul, no country, no rhythm and blues that spurned a whole catalogue of white artists whos influences can be traced back to the early roots of rock'n'roll and slavery.

G

 

[Tom]

Well, music as I know it came from Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven.

Thats beside the point though. I think its impossible to say 'what if' in this instance, because you're talking about a form of music that has developed over many generations to finally express itself as some kind of 'rant' against 'the machine'.

Personally, I hate rap with a passion. If slavery = rap then slavery = bad.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

Personally, I hate rap with a passion. If slavery = rap then slavery = bad.

Nice to see you are against slavery because it might have spawned rap music.

 

[nath]

Tom, would I be wrong in saying that when you think of rap/hiphop you're thinking of Eminiem, 50 cent and their ilk. Gangster rap, essentially? If so, be aware that it is a sub genre of hiphop but there's lots better out there. I quite like a lot of hip hop - however, I fucking despise gangster rap.

 

[tris-]

beastie boys

 

[Will]

I think he meant The Herbaliser, rather than The Beastie Boys. I know which I prefer.

 

[old.user4556]

Vanilla Ice


























/taxi

 

[nath]

Don't be silly. I was talking about MC Hammer. His music touched my soul, man.

 

[Tom]

Tom, would I be wrong in saying that when you think of rap/hiphop you're thinking of Eminiem, 50 cent and their ilk. Gangster rap, essentially? If so, be aware that it is a sub genre of hiphop but there's lots better out there. I quite like a lot of hip hop - however, I fucking despise gangster rap.

I just hate the whole thing with a passion. Every time it comes on the radio (which isn't much on R5Live or R4), I have to turn it off. It doesn't matter what they're saying, how fast the beat is, what they look like, its just meaningless shite. I can appreciate the talent of someone like Eminem, but being skilled at songwriting and speaking quickly doesn't really endear me to the music (which is often resampled). The one with the sample from The Police Every Breath I Take was fucking annoying, at least The Police had the talent to create a good song in the first place.

IMFO of course!

 

[nath]

Ahh, as I thought. Decent hiphop is rare in mainstream media. So basically, I'm right there with you - the hiphop you hate is the hiphop I hate, but be aware that there's lots more around, with talented artists producing quality tracks.

 

[Uncle Sick]

It's all a matter of personal taste... though I agree with Tom.
Rap, Hip Hop... whatever - it makes my ear weep in agony.

 

[Sissyfoo]

If there had been no slavery then the music today would be unrecognisable.

...I can't say whether that is a good thing or a bad thing tbh.

~looks at the shelves full of cheap, crap ass hip hop wannabes and teen bopper boy bands~ :/

 

[RandomBastard]

Slavery was always bad.
However if slavery gave rise to rap music... then it gave rise to garage and urban rnb. In which case it was just plain evil.

 

[Ch3tan]

Maybe we'd all be listening to David Hasselhoff croon like they love to in Germany.

 

[Jupitus]

Rap, Hip Hop... whatever - it makes my ear weep in agony.

Having a Van Gogh moment, Unc?

 

[Uncle Sick]

*sends right ear to Jup, with love*