Infiltrator vs. Nightshade

[deaz-]

Infiltrator vs. Nightshade
-------------------------------
I want to hear your meaning about who is the bedst assasian. My friend defently think that the NS's pwns Infil's...ehm...?

why does NS's "pwns" Infil's *cough*... ?

Bedst Regards, DEAz

 

[Coim-]

Infils have Dragonfang. Hope that cleared things up for you.

 

[-fwapp-]

if the ns has purge up and inf doesnt then maybe

 

[old.CrazyMuppet]

infil vs nightshade is balanced if both are RR6+.

Lower than RR5 tends to lean more toward the infil.

 

[Tacticus]

The infil will if all other things beeing equal always own a nightshade hands down.

2.5 specc points 2.2 specc points
Specc AF buff haste buff
Dragonfang diamondback
Dual shadows Garotte/achilles
superior race choice low con/str race


class vs class the infil is alot better.

Now over to RAs

Infil has Vanish+mastery of arms, shade has viper, wild arcana and avoid pain.

Avoid pain2= specc AF buff more or less.
Avoid pain3 is a slight advantage over the infil, so a rr3l9 shade have an advantage over a rr1 infil.

Vanish, double pas if the fight goes bad, and also a getaway tool if a zerg pops by.

Viper, 30 min timer, 14 points cost, effect is purgeable, and the require an unresisted dot to land.

Wild arcana, 5% chance for a crit per lvl each fight on debuff/dot. nice ra if you can afford it, but not reliable enough to be a fight breaker.

So basically the infil, especially the mercfil, will own any other assassin and most other classes too hands down

 

[kaine_1]

To be honest, Im not sure what Tacticious is on about.

I think by 'spec af buff' he is assuming the Infil has a buffbot, as Infils certainly dont have access to any form of 'spell' or buff.

Perhaps he thought the question meant 'whats best, infil & buffbot, or ns?'

Also, when making your class comparison, you have somehow combined the best elements of 2 different specs ie. a critical strike (vanish & pa), and also somehow a mercfil (50 dw)....this is err...impossible? (unless you spec like 3 stealth or something)

Your reasoning is pretty flawed and biased methinks, Tacticious, were you raped by some Infil, and held a grudge ever since?, or are you just another sb still crying about LA being nerfed?

Anyway, they are a pretty even match, though from what Ive read lower realm rank infils tend to outperform lower rr NS's, having said that, at higher rr's (5+), NS are about even.

 

[liste]

imo:

Low RR inf > NS

high RR NS > inf


As it is, Vanish is bugged. in most instances it is fairly useless. Mastery of Arms is bugged too. there are varrying reports about how, either level 0 1 or 2 in this skill works. everything above doesnt.

Viper is _uber_, in conjunction mastery of arcana. Add avoid pain, and you have a very good RA sheet.

Buffless, the shade has the advantage regarding attackspeed, due to higher quickness, in general. Buffed, the difference is minimal to non existant.

the matter of resist tables:

pierce shades has penalty vs infil, blade shade is neutral.

Slash infil has penalty vs nightshade, thrust infil in neutral.

in 1on1's these resist matter alot, whereas in ganksquads they're less important.


All facts added together, i'd personally roll a Blade shade, if only because they also has bonus on shadow blades.

 

[succi]

High rr shade vs high rr inf ( critspec ) is equal , only if shade has active RA's up

Shade vs any decent mercfil , shade has 30/40 % chance of winning using ap3 and purge

 

[tonita]

Mastery of arms will be fixed on 1.64

 

[[PS]Fool]

If both are buff botted, to an equal level, and both have simmilar equipment - no heal procs for instance - and there is no PA i think it comse down to luck.

If its vs a mercfiltrator, its not that hard to avoid Dual shaddows - and as they are likely to be backing up with DF, they will have pants dmg..but its just basicly luck - who gets the stun in first..

Though i have to say, if one of the players is..ahh..a bit crap, then they will proly loose

 

[SingerOfSoul]

alb leather lubs da pierce, where as hib leather is neutral. nuff said imo

 

[the_smurflord]

Shadowblade - neutral to infil, -15% to nightshades
Thrust Infiltrator - neutral to nightshades, -15% to shadowblades
Slash Infiltrator - +15% to shadowblades, -15% to nighshades
Pierce Nightshade = -15% to shadowblades, -15% to infiltrators
Blade Nightshade = +15% to shadowblades, neutral to infiltrators.

Seems to me when it comes to assassins vs assassins, the bladeshade is the best spec, even with a 100% strength based weapon. The spectrum blade style would also come in very handy.

 

[Harhr]

The max -% an armor type can have is 10%

 

[the_smurflord]

Originally posted by Harhr
The max -% an armor type can have is 10%

I thought it was 15%. But in any case the point above still stands, regardless of the figure.

 

[old.Emma]

Actually after some testing by a NS..

AP1 > Spec AF

AP1 gives a higher damage reduction than Spec AF.

They worked it out to be roughly 4x% reduction with AP3 meaning you get ~13-15% reduction in damage to you per level of AP.

 

[smincy]

Originally posted by the_smurflord
Shadowblade - neutral to infil, -15% to nightshades
Thrust Infiltrator - neutral to nightshades, -15% to shadowblades
Slash Infiltrator - +15% to shadowblades, -15% to nighshades
Pierce Nightshade = -15% to shadowblades, -15% to infiltrators
Blade Nightshade = +15% to shadowblades, neutral to infiltrators.

Seems to me when it comes to assassins vs assassins, the bladeshade is the best spec, even with a 100% strength based weapon. The spectrum blade style would also come in very handy.

may be a stupid question, but why cant an infiltrator spec crush ? that way they will be neutral to misgard leather wearers and have a bonus against hibernian leather ?

 

[liste]

because stabbing people with a blunt instrument, is unlikely to perforate anything.


its like digging a hole with a noodle, see?

 

[smincy]

makes no diferense, this is a game, if you spec crush, you can still use your PA chain just the same as if you had sword/dirks.

anyone have a 'sensible' reason ?

 

[the_smurflord]

Ever tried to garotte someone with a brick?

 

[smincy]

Originally posted by the_smurflord
Ever tried to garotte someone with a brick?

ok perhaps il rephrase the question. is there anything, in the game, to make speccing crush no feasable...

i.e. do critical strike not work with crush weapons ?

-edit just noticed that infs cant spec in crush doh! :doh:

but if someone had said, infs dont go crush cause they cant spec in it, istead of "its like digging a hole with a noodle, see?" it would have saved alot of time

incase you misunderstood my question, i was asking why there arent any crush infs, not asking why they werent aloud to spec crush (which i didnt know )

 

[Shike]

Originally posted by liste
because stabbing people with a blunt instrument, is unlikely to perforate anything.


its like digging a hole with a noodle, see?

hihi, I actually saw a woman with a huge grey pet that looked very angry at me when I was walking in the city the other day, I swear!!!

 

[Yussef]

Can Perforate with Staves!!11

 

[liste]

reason i answered like i did, was because i assumed that you knew that no assassins can spec crush.

the staff-PA is stupid and shouldn't have been in, since their reason for no crush spec, is most likely based on that very thing i replied.

 

[pudzy]

tbh the most op'd assasin is a mercfil FROM the avi's I've watched, the class looks great, but nightshade's are pretty dam ngood too imo. SB's need a thruat damage line with some decent reactionary style's and I think thing's will be easier.

 

[old.ivan]

Originally posted by the_smurflord
Ever tried to garotte someone with a brick?

But somehow SBs manage to PA/Garotte with a rather "tiny" albeit 2H War axe hehehe go figure

 

[Gef]

I'm sure if somebody gave me a large spikey steel mace I could perforate a few arteries. Most probably take someones head clean off, lots of blood, very messy...

To compete with Infils as a Shade you have to have RR5/6+ and only then when you have purge and AP3 up can you stand a fighting chance. Not fun when you have to wait 30 odd mins for your actives to come back up.

Infils are now sitting firmly on top of the assasin pile, like SB's once were. Think there are going to be some 'tweaks' when the style review comes round though.

 

[Tacticus]

No im not an SB, i used to play a nightshade tho, but i much prefer the group RvR aspect than the soloing stealther one.

And whoever is stupid enough to nag about buffbots not beeing part of the class balance is just plain...well stupid. All stealthers worth their salt use buffbots. Buffs is like your 6. speccline. If you dont use it, your gimped.

Hence why i discussed specc AF buff, and haste buff.

The thread is to discuss infil vs nightshade performance, and the infiltrator all things beeing equal, both fully buffed, both with pierce type weapons , MP full suit, spellcrafting and of similar player skill, will win a fight 1v1 against a shade.

The urban legend that high lvl shades are stronger than infils is just that, an urban legend with no truth.

due to lower con, and lower af due to specc af buff, the shade can take less damage before he dies, he also has less str, so deals less damage than the infil, wich at the same time has superior styles, dragonfang and dual shadows.

So shade does less damage, and has less hp....if you cant see that Infil is better than shade class vs class then your silly.

Shades imo is balanced, its a solid class that can keep their own in most cases. Infiltrators on the other hand will very likely get a nerf as they are overpowered.

 

[kaine_1]

Originally posted by Tacticus
And whoever is stupid enough to nag about buffbots not beeing part of the class balance is just plain...well stupid. All stealthers worth their salt use buffbots. Buffs is like your 6. speccline. If you dont use it, your gimped.

It was me.

I dont use a buffbot, and I dont feel Im 'gimped' because of it. Sure I dont have the advantages others with buffbots have, and Im by no means 'nagging' about buffbots.

Its just the question was which class is better, not 'My buffbot is better than yours.....'

 

[the_smurflord]

Infiltrators are not over powered.
Buffbotted infiltrators are over powered, because that's like having 2 characters vs your target not 1.

Class balance should always based around the class itself, not various ways people like to abuse the system to get easy kills.

And as for the comment that "All stealthers worth their salt use buffbots" is just stupid. The really skillful stealthers, the ones really worth their salt, dont need them. You're just refering the ones who rack up huge amount of easy rps because it makes them feel big and important. Some of us like to play the game as it was intended, 1 on 1, not 2 on 1. Anything less is just deluding yourself.
It's like praising someone for riding a works Ducati on the Tour De France.

 

[Tacticus]

Buffs are here to stay, Mythic want buffbots to stay. So suck it up.

You cant say the game was intended that way so im a purist and want it to stay that way. The games evolved, now its buffbots. No matter how good you are, if your unbuffed and meet a buffed foe, you will 99/100 die.