Infiltrator vs. Nightshade

[Tacticus]

i]Originally posted by the_smurflord [/i]
Infiltrators are not over powered.



So having more weaponskill, more hitpoints, better styles...is not overpowered?

 

[case-rigantis]

Originally posted by Tacticus

And whoever is stupid enough to nag about buffbots not beeing part of the class balance is just plain...well stupid. All stealthers worth their salt use buffbots. Buffs is like your 6. speccline. If you dont use it, your gimped.

Hence why i discussed specc AF buff, and haste buff.

you sir are an idiot <checks his own sig yup rr4 unbuffbotted infi still there>

 

[naetha]

Originally posted by case-rigantis regarding Tacticus
You sir, are an idiot

 

[Falcon]

Those trying to make out they're skilled by not having a buffbot would have a lot more credibility to their posts if they weren't the same ones that never leave the (mostly buffed) infil zerg.

 

[old.ivan]

Originally posted by Tacticus


The urban legend that high lvl shades are stronger than infils is just that, an urban legend with no truth.

due to lower con, and lower af due to specc af buff, the shade can take less damage before he dies, he also has less str, so deals less damage than the infil, wich at the same time has superior styles, dragonfang and dual shadows.

So shade does less damage, and has less hp....if you cant see that Infil is better than shade class vs class then your silly.

Im sorry but thats plain stupid to compare Buffed Infil vs Buffed Shade imo, since you only pick on racial hp and str difference + druid buffs.
If a RR6+ shade goes against a similar RR Infil , buffs aside, and taking in consideration that all RAs are up, Shade will most likely win. [ AoP, WA etc ] However without RAs it'll depend on who lands first blow or if Infil lands DF.
But the fact that infils get 2,5 specpoints which is highest of all assassin classes as well as damage choice <thrust, slash> that is probably unfair advantage. Having 60 more AF is hardly advantegous. Cant really tell how beneficial is 20 speed haste buff, since albs get it on a timer off a theurg, which is very hard to find.

 

[Silenzio]

Originally posted by Tacticus
The infil will if all other things beeing equal always own a nightshade hands down.

2.5 specc points 2.2 specc points
Specc AF buff haste buff
Dragonfang diamondback
Dual shadows Garotte/achilles
superior race choice low con/str race


class vs class the infil is alot better.

Now over to RAs

Infil has Vanish+mastery of arms, shade has viper, wild arcana and avoid pain.

Avoid pain2= specc AF buff more or less.
Avoid pain3 is a slight advantage over the infil, so a rr3l9 shade have an advantage over a rr1 infil.

Vanish, double pas if the fight goes bad, and also a getaway tool if a zerg pops by.

Viper, 30 min timer, 14 points cost, effect is purgeable, and the require an unresisted dot to land.

Wild arcana, 5% chance for a crit per lvl each fight on debuff/dot. nice ra if you can afford it, but not reliable enough to be a fight breaker.

So basically the infil, especially the mercfil, will own any other assassin and most other classes too hands down

AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[dangle]

dont think i saw diamondback mentioned once in this thread lol, diamondback imo is just as good as DF if not better. why? coz most the gimpfils are too stupid to purge it since it aint teh uber 9 sec. Also to say 1 will always win over the other when buffs/equip is equal and also base ur judgement on stats, 2.5 spec pts & ns high quick blah blah well its complete bollox imo lol.
i certainly dont NEED my AP when the buffs are even, coz i run without a bot its mainly my tool to help me take down buffed infs.
i even once killed 3 buffed inf in a row in mids DF (not at same time), myself unbuffed. they were all rr4+, i had prob just hit rr6 at the time. im dragging on a bit here. i guess all i am trying to say is that inf certainly aint the assasin god every1 makes it out to be and NS is just as good, if not alot better in some cases.

 

[Wij]

SB still sux tho

 

[old.ivan]

Originally posted by dangle
and also base ur judgement on stats, 2.5 spec pts & ns high quick blah blah well its complete bollox imo lol.

Umm are you wearing completely SCd suit and use ablatives ?
Do you wear any miscellanious jewelry in game ?
Do the above items have +stats/skills on them ?
Why do you wear them, cause they occupy space and look pretty ?

... in short this game is all about the stats mate. Skill is probably important too, but not even close to the inventory you have.

PS: if your answers to the above questions are "No" , then your point taken and cudos for taking down 3 buffils solo.

 

[dangle]

Yep you are right i do contradict what i just in a way, with the very nice SC kit i have. But i am not saying its just down to skill, i think it has alot more to do with luck and experience i.e my experience has tought me to dodge about a bit whenever an inf evades, that certainly dont take skill but it can win u alot of fights.
and with the luck there just seems ns has more chances to get lucky during the fight with purge AP WA and the seemingly unpurgable diamondback

 

[Wij]

If they scrap LA for SBs and give them H2H instead then this could be a 3-way fight

 

[tonita]

Nerf savages!>_<
btw h2h's not what make savages overpowerd, sb's with hth with no multi hits << mercinfil

 

[Wij]

Multihits are based on the H2H spec. 2H Savages DO NOT multihit They are still very good tho.

H2H SBs would therefore multihit depending on how many points they dropped into H2H.

gifv h2h sbs plz !!!!!!!!!1

 

[[PS]Fool]

Quad PA. Tbh.

 

[mele]

Slash inf > SB < slash NS
Thrust inf > SB with purge down > NS with RA´s down
Mercinf thrust > Shadowzerk > BMNS (never seen one)
rr10 NS RA´s UP > rr10 Inf with RA´s UP = rr10 SB with Purge UP

 

[Wij]

Originally posted by [PS]Fool
Quad PA. Tbh.

No. It would be a 1h PA plus 3 unstyled 1h hits. Still good but not likely to happen that often.

givf h2h sb !!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tacticus]

So basically a class with more weaponskill, more hitpoints, better styles, is not better?

Yes a good nightshade can kill a bad infil. And a bad nightshade can sometimes get lucky and win over a good infil. But due to things like dragonfang, dual shadows and more damage, and more hitpoints...the infil is better at all realm ranks.

Case-Rigantis, rr4 is a a weeks work if your good. So come back when you got a bit more rvr experience then laugh at me.

I am against buffbots, but im not blind nor stupid. Buffbots have come to stay, and with stealthers it has to be concidered for balance, since nearly all stealthers are buffed.

People who deny that infils > all other assassins. (all other things beeing equal, skill, buffs, SC, jewelry etc) Are most likely infiltrators, and to blinded by their own class and not able to look at it objectively.

Infiltrators will be nerfed, it is only a question of time.


Ofcourse i meet a rr2 infil in epic armour, he wont stand a chance, but thats the same with all classes.

 

[Tacticus]

One more thing, if you want to prove me wrong, make a case for it. Not just try to appear leet by typing a silly one liner.

Board warriors are so last decade.

I forgot to comment on diamondback aswell.

Infils have more weaponskill, that means less evades for his enemies and more for him, easier chance of getting off dragonfang wich is 9 seconds and do more damage than diamondback.

 

[old.m0000]

Originally posted by Tacticus
The infil will if all other things beeing equal always own a nightshade hands down.

2.5 specc points 2.2 specc points
Specc AF buff haste buff
Dragonfang diamondback
Dual shadows Garotte/achilles
superior race choice low con/str race


class vs class the infil is alot better.

Now over to RAs

Infil has Vanish+mastery of arms, shade has viper, wild arcana and avoid pain.

Avoid pain2= specc AF buff more or less.
Avoid pain3 is a slight advantage over the infil, so a rr3l9 shade have an advantage over a rr1 infil.

Vanish, double pas if the fight goes bad, and also a getaway tool if a zerg pops by.

Viper, 30 min timer, 14 points cost, effect is purgeable, and the require an unresisted dot to land.

Wild arcana, 5% chance for a crit per lvl each fight on debuff/dot. nice ra if you can afford it, but not reliable enough to be a fight breaker.

So basically the infil, especially the mercfil, will own any other assassin and most other classes too hands down

As a tank NSs are the one i feer the most because all that are rr3+ seem to have wild arcana level 2 or more - and ive had a crit debuff on me thats reduced my hp from 1800 to 1060, so yeah its a damn good RA - NS definatly own infils hands down at rr6/7+ vs same RR infil.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by liste
because stabbing people with a blunt instrument, is unlikely to perforate anything.


its like digging a hole with a noodle, see?

yeah, and getting hit with 2 axes swinging at head-lvl is LIKELY to chop your fucking head off. Perforate ARTERY sounds like it should cause some heavy fricking bleeding doesnt it?
Being hit by a hammer thats as big as you are, swung by a troll should be a cause of major injury, but hey if your lucky its only 3-400 ish dmg. thats not even 1/5th of my hps.



your trying to bring sense into daoc, dont bother.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by old.m0000
As a tank NSs are the one i feer the most because all that are rr3+ seem to have wild arcana level 2 or more - and ive had a crit debuff on me thats reduced my hp from 1800 to 1060, so yeah its a damn good RA - NS definatly own infils hands down at rr6/7+ vs same RR infil.

dont think I would say "own infil hands down" since all the inf needs is a lucky evade, while the ns needs to have all ra's up, and dot not get resisted.

 

[tonita]

yeah Arnor nearly looks like fg of mids vs fg of albs

 

[old.Xarr]

Originally posted by Arnor
dont think I would say "own infil hands down" since all the inf needs is a lucky evade, while the ns needs to have all ra's up, and dot not get resisted.

yer. it seems that ns (and sb) needs to have 30 minute ra's up just to have a shot at taking down the infil, while the infil only needs to evade (which isn't that hard really).

 

[old.Normengast]

An inf will most definately own a NS if the first comes with a full party.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tacticus]

So if a shade, gets a crit on his debuff. 15% chance in a fight if he has WA3 as i have. After the Critcheck, we get the resist check, debuff is a lvl 47 spell, so it is often outright resisted. Nothing worse than seeing your debuff criticals for an aditional 100 points. Then getting Your target resists the effect.

Then the debuff value is 118(dont remember exact here).

That means the crit can be from 1-118 points.

So to get a good crit, you have to get the RNG to get a number favoring you 3 times in a row, and have an RA. Where the infil only need to evade once, wich will happen more often than not due to the aforementioned weaponskill, without any RAs.

Nightshades of same RR as an Infil might win, but as i stated before, if all things are equal the infil will more often than not win. If the infil is mercfil specced he will nearly always win. Dont understand why any infil speccs different when mercfil specc is so incredibly strong.

 

[dangle]

forgetting something?

all the NS needs is an evade as well, 4-5 sec stun then hamstring chain is pretty damn hard to come back from unless u got IP, ad infs dont have it do they? just my opinion ofc but i onlt see DF being better than diamondback when its used against something with alot more hp that can IP.

 

[[PS]Fool]

Who said that the only ppl saying infs would loose to NS's are infs? I kinda want ppl to stop making my class into a kinda joke (ok it would have advantages..more drops etc..but anyway) - i have little problems with infs. They need a lucky evade sure, but with capped qui and red druid haste, even if they evade its likely that we will hit them again - plus the fact that anyone whos played more than a week of rvr will realise to run through or strafe when they evade. Then theres the fact that there are so many fotm powerleveld infs, even up to rr4-5 that still have little idea how to play there class (due to stealther zergs all the time, i immagin) that are also are easy to beat. Sure, good infs vs good NS, the inf is more likely to win - but i wouldent say that infs are that much abouve us.

 

[scarffs]

I fear NS's more then infils, probably because when i get targeted by one, my survival ratio is much lower.

 

[Tacticus]

forgetting something?
all the NS needs is an evade as well, 4-5 sec stun then hamstring chain is pretty damn hard to come back from unless u got IP, ad infs dont have it do they? just my opinion ofc but i onlt see DF being better than diamondback when its used against something with alot more hp that can IP.


No im not forgetting diamondback, but due to higher weaponskill on the infils side, he will have a higher evade ratio compared to the shade. After my diamondback ends however the infil can dragonfang me. If a shade get dragonfanged hes usually dead before the effect is over, or very close to death.

said that the only ppl saying infs would loose to NS's are infs? I kinda want ppl to stop making my class into a kinda joke (ok it would have advantages..more drops etc..but anyway) - i have little problems with infs. They need a lucky evade sure, but with capped qui and red druid haste, even if they evade its likely that we will hit them again - plus the fact that anyone whos played more than a week of rvr will realise to run through or strafe when they evade. Then theres the fact that there are so many fotm powerleveld infs, even up to rr4-5 that still have little idea how to play there class (due to stealther zergs all the time, i immagin) that are also are easy to beat. Sure, good infs vs good NS, the inf is more likely to win - but i wouldent say that infs are that much abouve us.

The nightshade is far from a joke, i think its a balanced and solid class. Just a shame that the infiltrator is better by quite a margin.

Running through or strafing dont work on unlagged targets who /face you when they see you using that trick. And as i said earlier all things including skill beeing equal, so basically you agree with me. Good Infil vs Good shade, and the infil has the odds in his favour.


I fear NS's more then infils, probably because when i get targeted by one, my survival ratio is much lower.

What class would that be?