Infils before the huge LA nerf...

[Haldar]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
I have no problem with evade based stuns - they are less easy to use than anytimes or positionals.

NS has access in 1 weapon line to a low cost low duration stun.
SB has access in offhand line (meaning they can choose whichever main weapon spec they prefer) to a medium cost medium duration stun
Infil has access in 1 weapon line to a high cost high duration stun
All assassins have access in the CS line to a medium duration stun.

I don't see this as unbalancing. The difference is around 2 secs for most, and 4 for the largest gap.

You will hear a lot of whines about them though - none substantiated, and most without any thought.

(Thrust/pierce line based on str/dex to replace swords - agree, valid request)

1. rtfm
http://www.camelotherald.com/styles/style.php?s=60&line=2
Name: Dragonfang
Level: 50
Prerequisite: You evade
Attack: High Bonus
Defense: Low Penalty
Fatigue Cost: Low
Damage: Medium
Effect: Stunned
Stuns the target for a brief period of time.
Resist type: N/A
Duration: 9 seconds

2. i have already posted somewhere that it is 2.5-2.8 times harder to land CB-FG than Dragonfang. 2x bcoz it is 2nd in chain, and 0.5-0.8 bcoz Dfang is HIGH +to hit while both CB and FG are MEDIUM. To compensate for this, FG stun should be at least 2x longer than Dfang's....2x only bcoz it is at 39 spec......18 seconds of melee stun...scary eh?

[edit]
wrong about numbers...CB-FG doesnt require to evade twice in a row...i'd say it is something like 1.6-1.9....and 1.5x stun on FG....13.5 sec of stun is not bad too hehe

 

[Wiro]

Originally posted by Rollie
..but DF will hit most people for 250 giv or take, 9 second stun 250x5=1250 HP gone before you can respond..

I just wish it was that much
It's under 200 (including offhand swing) most of the time here, don't know about rr6+ mercfil's though Just really lucky when it hits for that much
Got 50+14 thrust and 29+14 DW

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Wiro
I just wish it was that much
It's under 200 (including offhand swing) most of the time here, don't know about rr6+ mercfil's though
Got 50+14 thrust and 29+14 DW

On my old scout 50+13 thrust and i cant remember it doing less than 230, usually around 250, i was of course buffed.

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
I have no problem with evade based stuns - they are less easy to use than anytimes or positionals.

NS has access in 1 weapon line to a low cost low duration stun.
SB has access in offhand line (meaning they can choose whichever main weapon spec they prefer) to a medium cost medium duration stun
Infil has access in 1 weapon line to a high cost high duration stun
All assassins have access in the CS line to a medium duration stun.

I don't see this as unbalancing. The difference is around 2 secs for most, and 4 for the largest gap.

Time is not the only factor with stun styles.
It is also the damage you can achive while the opponent is under the influence of stun.
If you have a stun style based directly off evade, that means you can spam evade based damage styles after the stun has been placed. This is a significant factor also.
This is not possible if it is second in chain, unless you evade twice in a row, and land both hits perfectly (no miss, evade, block, parry, fumbles or what else there can go wrong).

And an stun based directly off evade is way easy to use, it is just a matter of backing up ones styles - two buttons: Evade style -> Main Style, easy.

I've also avoided way more slams from shieldusers then I've ever avoided DFs, or diamonback, from assassins.
Also lookinging at attack bonus, then DF have high, FrostyGaze have Medium and Diamondback is also medium, wich combined with higher weaponskill makes DF even more easy to land then the other two.

 

[Wiro]

Originally posted by Rollie
On my old scout 50+13 thrust and i cant remember it doing less than 230, usually around 250, i was of course buffed.

:scared:

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by Xandax
Time is not the only factor with stun styles.
It is also the damage you can achive while the opponent is under the influence of stun.
If you have a stun style based directly off evade, that means you can spam evade based damage styles after the stun has been placed. This is a significant factor also.
This is not possible if it is second in chain, unless you evade twice in a row, and land both hits perfectly (no miss, evade, block, parry, fumbles or what else there can go wrong).

And an stun based directly off evade is way easy to use, it is just a matter of backing up ones styles - two buttons: Evade style -> Main Style, easy.

I've also avoided way more slams from shieldusers then I've ever avoided DFs, or diamonback, from assassins.
Also lookinging at attack bonus, then DF have high, FrostyGaze have Medium and Diamondback is also medium, wich combined with higher weaponskill makes DF even more easy to land then the other two.

Agree onthe post stun spamming - check should be against the first style, and then gone.

As for 'too easy, just set it as a backup' - well name a style that isn't? which class doesn't set up a reactionery style backed up by an anytime? Comeback/Garrotte followed by frosty Glaze/garotte - where's the 'skill' here?

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
Agree onthe post stun spamming - check should be against the first style, and then gone.

As for 'too easy, just set it as a backup' - well name a style that isn't? which class doesn't set up a reactionery style backed up by an anytime? Comeback/Garrotte followed by frosty Glaze/garotte - where's the 'skill' here?

I don't know that - it was you that claimed evade based stuns are harder to pull off then getting a positional style off.

 

[Ironfoot]

and its FROSTY GAZE not FROSTY GLAZE
its not a fucking doughnut that Homer Simpson eats Dontouch you freaking retard !!!

 

[Silenzio]

tbh i like em both...

i meen simpson's toons

 

[BidAccount]

Positionals are harder 1v1 where both classes are aware of position.

Large scale then positionals are much easier - watch the Firbie heros with LW next FgvFg or multigroup fight. Normal tactic is wait for Mez, run behind target then 9sec stun. Or if no mez at least one will try to get the rear stun off. As an infil I'd love a rear positional 9 sec stun - but that would be overpowering and far too easy to land.

Or brutalize - very easy to land. Engage till block (and at 50 spec how hard is that!) Then whap! Stunned.

Slams easier to fire - its anytime, but without a hit bonus its going to miss or be negated more. But then the sensible shield user try to get a side/rear position before trying it.

So evade based stuns aren't a big deal - plus they're quite easy to avoid. I know of a few SBs who have that trick down to a T - and I'm not telling you how they do it because it F**king annoying.

 

[Ironfoot]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy


As an infil I'd love a rear positional 9 sec stun - but that would be overpowering and far too easy to land.

And DF on a charcter with 50% evade isn't just as easy if not easier to land ?

Please could you stop abusing class A narcotic substances as they are clearly depleting your brain cell count

 

[Silenzio]

Originally posted by Ironfoot
And DF on a charcter with 50% evade isn't just as easy if not easier to land ?

Who? vs Who?

 

[Ironfoot]

Originally posted by Silenzio
Who? vs Who?

Ifnil vs the rest of the world. As in they have 50% evade and can spam a style that gives a 9 sec stun directly off an evade.

Appologies for poor sentence construction in previous reply

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by Ironfoot
And DF on a charcter with 50% evade isn't just as easy if not easier to land ?

Please could you stop abusing class A narcotic substances as they are clearly depleting your brain cell count

I don't have 50% evade - no bb.

And against a dual wielder my evade is capped at 25%.

And DF only works on mainhand evades - most evades are offhand due to the 'to hit' bonus on mainhand. It can then be evaded, parried or evaded - or just plain miss/fumble.

Plus its quite easy to avoid if you know how.

So no, it isn't frankly.

 

[Silenzio]

Originally posted by Ironfoot
Ifnil vs the rest of the world. As in they have 50% evade and can spam a style that gives a 9 sec stun directly off an evade.

Appologies for poor sentence construction in previous reply

was not bout "poor" sentence


but... rlly
50% evade is kinda hard to reach... need bb dodg,,,

a non dualwielding enemy...

and now trust me with the new parry/blok fix is damn hard to land a style on a tank ... wich ever style..

 

[Ironfoot]

Originally posted by Silenzio

50% evade is kinda hard to reach... need bb dodg,,,

a

50% evade cap is not that hard to reach especially with the high dex / qui races. Yes you would need a rake of good buffs. But you can hit evade cap easily with just buffs.

Obviously if you run unbotted (which in this day an age is very very very rare for most assassins) you would need to invest heavily in Dodger, But with a bot you can get to 50% quite comfortably with maybe dodger 1 if none at all.

Evade 7 = 35% evade + modifier from qui/dex. it is not that difficult to cap evade

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by Ironfoot
50% evade cap is not that hard to reach especially with the high dex / qui races. Yes you would need a rake of good buffs. But you can hit evade cap easily with just buffs.

Obviously if you run unbotted (which in this day an age is very very very rare for most assassins) you would need to invest heavily in Dodger, But with a bot you can get to 50% quite comfortably with maybe dodger 1 if none at all.

Evade 7 = 35% evade + modifier from qui/dex. it is not that difficult to cap evade

its harder then u think....

http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?threadid=86910


read that link. i may have capped evade vs a 2h pally with 20 weapon or sum ;d

 

[Ironfoot]

Originally posted by froler-mid
its harder then u think....

http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?threadid=86910


read that link. i may have capped evade vs a 2h pally with 20 weapon or sum ;d

Thanks for the link remi was an informative read

 

[Silenzio]

thats more or less what i ment ;P

 

[BidAccount]

Don't assume everyone has a bb.

The powergamers do, but most of the casual players don't. there's a lot more than you think that don't have one.

 

[Ironfoot]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
Don't assume everyone has a bb.

The powergamers do, but most of the casual players don't. there's a lot more than you think that don't have one.

care to explain why the primary buffing class has among the greatest number of players then (in the case of clerics the highest number period ?

from duskwave

Class Characters
1 Cleric 2,525 <========== hmmm guess most of those 2069 infils don't play with bots then ?
2 Paladin 2,222
3 Necromancer 2,095
4 Infiltrator 2,069
5 Wizard 2,051
6 Shaman 2,045
7 Shadowblade 1,749 <========== hmmm guess most of those 1749 SBs don't play with bots then ?

To be honest with yourself on any given night you port to emain or where ever else you do your stuff how many afk clerics do you see at apk ?

I know how many I see at mpk and it ain't single numbers and 1 buffer can easily fully buff 2 infils / SBs. So even as a casual gamer it is still possibe to get buffs off one of the Powergamers bots who is parked in TK. Unless you are gonna now tell me you are a purist and when some one buffs you your shift-right click them off before heading out to battle.

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by Ironfoot
care to explain why the primary buffing class has among the greatest number of players then (in the case of clerics the highest number period ?

from duskwave

Class Characters
1 Cleric 2,525 <========== hmmm guess most of those 2069 infils don't play with bots then ?
2 Paladin 2,222
3 Necromancer 2,095
4 Infiltrator 2,069
5 Wizard 2,051
6 Shaman 2,045
7 Shadowblade 1,749 <========== hmmm guess most of those 1749 SBs don't play with bots then ?

To be honest with yourself on any given night you port to emain or where ever else you do your stuff how many afk clerics do you see at apk ?

I know how many I see at mpk and it ain't single numbers and 1 buffer can easily fully buff 2 infils / SBs

Few nights back did a check round the infils/scouts lurking at amg. less than half were buffed - and some of the buffed ones were sharing bots.

Because it can be done, do not assume everyone does it. Unless of course you are a powergamer who assumes that everyone else is?

 

[Silenzio]

my bb have webdisplayoff


mmm and anyway im running umbuffed since 2 month

and is nice... when im sure hib r not zerging odin

or mid's are arround atk as soloer...

1vs1 is still nice even if they r buffed... more satisfaction

2vs1 im dead in no time ;P



and btw not only stealtehr use bb... regular group use em too

 

[Ironfoot]

Originally posted by donttouchpoopy
I have no problem with evade based stuns - they are less easy to use than anytimes or positionals.

NS has access in 1 weapon line to a low cost low duration stun.
SB has access in offhand line (meaning they can choose whichever main weapon spec they prefer) to a medium cost medium duration stun
Infil has access in 1 weapon line to a high cost high duration stun
All assassins have access in the CS line to a medium duration stun.

medium cost for frost gaze ?

errmmm

training 39 + 39 in 2 spec lines costs more than training 50 in 1. Remember you cant just say its at 39 LA because LA is useless without base weapon spec which invariably is trained to at least the same level of LA

allow me to show you in case your math is a little sub par

SB to train to 39axe 39LA = 1558 points
Infil to train 50 thrust = 1274 points

difference = 284

total spec points available without autotrain

SB = 3253
Infil 3706

difference = 453

therefore to get access to an evade stun a SB has to make sacrifices to either env or CS, gimping stealth is notrelly an option for any assassin.

By contrast an infil can still fill out all the necessary skill lines without relly sacrificing anything.

Please explain

 

[Silenzio]

im runnin out from the office... so... il be quick

if have 453 more spec point cuz they have to spec in a wole spec line wher thers no decent style cept the lvl 50 one...

and cuz we have lower hp and less base damage

happy WE

 

[Ironfoot]

Originally posted by Silenzio
im runnin out from the office... so... il be quick

if have 453 more spec point cuz they have to spec in a wole spec line wher thers no decent style cept the lvl 50 one...

and cuz we have lower hp and less base damage

happy WE

50-100 base HP @ level 50 does not = 453 more spec points which in turn does not equal the ghetto dd NS get.

Your reasons although they are "technically" true as its the shit mythic put in the patch notes with the major assassin changes back in 1.4x does not mean it is equal.

If you think its equal then would you be happy to trade the 453 spec points + df from your infil for my 100ish hp on my SB ?

Can you honestly say you would think that would be a fair trade off for you ?

Fact is of course you can't

 

[jua-]

Originally posted by Rollie
and remove evade based stuns from all assasins, that will level the playing field alot also. Giv Sb str/dex based wep as well

inf hits you with str /const debuff you purge your str returns. your hits remain 500 hp less

you hit the inf with dext/quick he purges everything returns.. clap clap

 

[Nazghul-]

Originally posted by jua-
inf hits you with str /const debuff you purge your str returns. your hits remain 500 hp less

you hit the inf with dext/quick he purges everything returns.. clap clap

you use both str/con AND dex/qui debuffs then as a sb /cheer

 

[BidAccount]

Originally posted by Nazghul-
you use both str/con AND dex/qui debuffs then as a sb /cheer

What makes you think the infil hasn't done the same.....

 

[tirinerfed]

I still like my nerfed LA
but is not fair that infils got stun move after evade and there
2.5 specc pts is over the hill


but i understand why they make infil robots they sound overpowerd .................


Tiri lvl 50 SZ and a proud mid playler