Infil vs SB

[rvn]

DS - 0.80 growth rate, positional.

Garrotte - 0.75, anytime, movement reduction. Follow up Achilles - 1.05.

Garrotte/Achilles is a far better chain - and as its anytime is not avoidable by moving out of frontal arc.

Spec af vs charge and +%items = approx 30af difference - no biggie.

Slash neutral armour - why is that so great when NS have slash resistant armour?



Read the latest numbers Wyrrd just posted - LA is nowhere near subpar to CD.DW. Slash weak is irrelevant when all realms have elemental weapons.



So when hibs/mids take em back should we then nerf SBs/NS?



You have something better than DS - you have CS chains with higher growth rates. You have charges which get you close to infil af, and you have 20% haste on bots. NS is the best assassin in NF - and if you checked the game stats you'd find them top of the tree.

Why the fixation with DS? garr/ach will give you an average of 0.90 - compared to 0.80 from DS. Plus in CS you have hamstring/leaper - an excellent reactionery chain with 1.15/1.35 growth rates.

you forgot the dps you gain with speccing 50dw from offhand swining more often, as a nightshade you probably cant go both 50dw,50cs for maxiseing the style dmg in cs the same time as maximiseing the offhand swings.

 

[rvn]

So is wyrd a moron - seeing as in your mind experience = correct, and he is obviously far more experienced than you. And wyrd has asserted that the 3 are balanced.

So being as experienced, and therefore as knowledgable, you'll be able to produce the data, tests or proof that infils are more powerful - or are you just repeating heresay and whiny crap - the same whiny crap that just been entirely discredited?

if wyrd thinks sbs = infs he is a moron, but i dont think he has claimed that either, i think he just claimed that LA = DW

but lets ignore all the other factors shall we?

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

you forgot the dps you gain with speccing 50dw from offhand swining more often, as a nightshade you probably cant go both 50dw,50cs for maxiseing the style dmg in cs the same time as maximiseing the offhand swings.

The only point of 50dw is dual shadows.

1pt dw = 0.5% swing chance (or 0.68% depending on whose figures you accept). So a high rr ns won't get 50 cd - but 40 shouldn't be a problem, thus dropping a 5 (or 6.8%) chance to swing the offhand unstyled for base damage.

Wyrds just posted some figures on that too - make very interesting reading as now being in the LA driving seat he still maintains its superior to cd/dw.

Being more experienced shouldn't you know this? Or is it that knowledge and inteligence perhaps are separate from rps?

(Oh and wyrd has claimed that the three are balanced - really you should know better with your experience)

 

[rvn]

The only point of 50dw is dual shadows.

1pt dw = 0.5% swing chance (or 0.68% depending on whose figures you accept). So a high rr ns won't get 50 cd - but 40 shouldn't be a problem, thus dropping a 5 (or 6.8%) chance to swing the offhand unstyled for base damage.

Wyrds just posted some figures on that too - make very interesting reading as now being in the LA driving seat he still maintains its superior to cd/dw.

Being more experienced shouldn't you know this? Or is it that knowledge and inteligence perhaps are separate from rps?

(Oh and wyrd has claimed that the three are balanced - really you should know better with your experience)

i know that 100% based weapons suck extremely much when fighting enemys who can str/con debuff, have disease and singel str debuff.

and i know the impact of specc AF

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

i know that 100% based weapons suck extremely much when fighting enemys who can str/con debuff, have disease and singel str debuff.

and i know the impact of specc AF

Well its a start to know this.

Do you also know that mids can get af buff too - haldar runs with 718 af. Not too shabby.

And did you also know that by relying on a single stat SBs can overcap in a temp far more easily, and boost that stat significantly through a single RA purchase thus giving them more damage?

Did you not think whilst n00b ganking with n00byride to perhaps stop and research some of this - or could it be you were spending too much time gaining 'experience' to stop and think?

 

[rvn]

with a good infil specc you get the best of both, you cap both dex and str by 26.

and just that ws differance from being only 50% debuffed instead of 100% > extra ~150 - 250 hits in template

also find me one infil/ns/sb that has played their char for a while and agrees that infil is not > the rest

 

[rvn]

also infil has advantage in the stun-department


50% evade cut in half due to dw, 25% evade rate

infil evade stun (1hit)
75% chance of landing
sb evade stun (2hits)
75% chance on first swing
75% chance of second swing
56.25% chance to land stun

ofcourse the infil has to spend 45 more specc points to get 50thrust, compared to sb who needs to get 39LA to get these styles. The tradeoff is then 200hps vs 18.75% more chance to land stun.

this game isnt all numbers.

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

with a good infil specc you get the best of both, you cap both dex and str by 26.

and just that ws differance from being only 50% debuffed instead of 100% > extra ~150 - 250 hits in template

also find me one infil/ns/sb that has played their char for a while and agrees that infil is not > the rest

Yes you can - but you sacrifice something to get the extra 26 capped which on the SB you don't have to do. And of course they're not going to admit a SB is a decent class - they want godmode back! And if you listen to the players in the know then its the NS thats the assassin of choice. Why? because it can do everything the infil can do and more - incidentally that stun you were talking about where the infil pays 450 more points than the SB? Well the NS gets the same stun style at even less than the SB - but by your logic that makes the infil overpowered? Go figure....

What people 'believe' is not always the truth. There are far bigger class disparities in the game, and now you have TLs asserting the three assassins are balanced. For 10 patches they have remained untouched and they will remain untouched for another 10 (or more for my money).

(And trust me - this game is all numbers. Its built on numbers, and the numbers don't lie)

 

[wittor]

lol maybe you should play a bit more then reading vnboards 24/7
if u say that a Infil is balanced then ur wrong about it
oh btw those screens i gave u was w/o relics if i have to screen my dmg with relics then i have to take every swing one, cus it is everytime between 250 - 500

 

[Salamurhaaja]

oh btw those screens i gave u was w/o relics if i have to screen my dmg with relics then i have to take every swing one, cus it is everytime between 250 - 500

Strong. Bit 2 strong 4 me
Mebbe I skip playing my sb, cu in WoW unless something strange happens, hehe.

 

[wittor]

Strong. Bit 2 strong 4 me
Mebbe I skip playing my sb, cu in WoW unless something strange happens, hehe.

I can't hurt you , ur to cute !

 

[Arnor]

Just answer me this mistar smiley:

Are sb's and infils equal?

Just a straight up answer please, none of that "well there have been tests that might conclude to blablabla bullshit"

Yes or no, with equal rr/equipment and similar specs and no relic bonus, are sb's and infils equal?

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

Just answer me this mistar smiley:

Are sb's and infils equal?

Just a straight up answer please, none of that "well there have been tests that might conclude to blablabla bullshit"

Yes or no, with equal rr/equipment and similar specs and no relic bonus, are sb's and infils equal?

Are healers and clerics equal? no.

Are Armsmen and Warrior equal? No

Are wizards and runemasters equal? No

Are infils and SBs equal? They are comparable, and far more closely matched than any other class grouping. Are they identical? No - but its realms, not classes that are balanced. And the difference between NS>infil>Sb is measured in milimetres not miles (which more than be said of the other 3 examples....)

 

[Ghaladriel]

xDDD

 

[Vodkafairy]

funny how you start asskissing wyrd in almost every post now, seems like you dont have ANY experience of yourself at all ;p

when i get my calculator fixed ill show you some calculations based on wyrds data to prove it in a way you can hopefully accept. maybe you will shut up and accept the facts then

 

[Calo]

funny how you start asskissing wyrd in almost every post now, seems like you dont have ANY experience of yourself at all ;p

when i get my calculator fixed ill show you some calculations based on wyrds data to prove it in a way you can hopefully accept. maybe you will shut up and accept the facts then

but !
when u compare sb's to infils
and warri's to armsmens u can see that the difference between sb's & infils are only mm's and not miles if u see to the other example!

really!

 

[Vodkafairy]

ah its fucking bullshit, infils >> sb's by a longshot, anyone who has played rvr properly with a stealther knows it. just this guy is obsessed with one guy, one set of tests and numbers.

and lol at calling rvn unexperienced hes prolly one of the most skilled players excal has ever known

 

[Chrstffr]

can i add something?

 

[Appollo]

ah its fucking bullshit, infils >> sb's by a longshot, anyone who has played rvr properly with a stealther knows it. just this guy is obsessed with one guy, one set of tests and numbers.

and lol at calling rvn unexperienced hes prolly one of the most skilled players excal has ever known

as i said, sb's in the right hands with right equip/ra's > all

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

Vodka & friends.

Its funny how 'everyone knows', but the same small handful rant about it. And that small handfull ignore anything and everything except what they want to believe regardless. New data is in - use it, perhaps it is one of the reasons SBs have been left as is. perhaps another is that they are, except for a minor tweak or two - and which class couldn't use a tweak or two - they are fine as is.

But you keep ranting and securing the NS top of the tree position.

 

[Ging]

omg this thread is still going on????

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

omg this thread is still going on????

As long as there are SBs there will be whining.

 

[Leel]

Just some icing on the cake here, saracen got by far the best racial resists for an assassin as well, thrust and slash and heat racial resists:-P
And norse hunters got 5% cold etc. Norse hunters and saracen infils are teh evul.

 

[Oli7er]

i dont care bout the ingame whatevers, but intellectually smiley pwns most of vodka and gang by a longshot go on peons, jump on me

 

[Jaapi]

Luckily the conversations in here are handled through keyboard, otherwise ISmileWhileILickWyrdsAss would be in a hurry to get his tongue out to make a statement.

 

[Jaapi]

i dont care bout the ingame whatevers, but intellectually smiley pwns most of vodka and gang by a longshot go on peons, jump on me

Actually you're not quite right. Intellect comes from 2 different things, raw data and knowledge that comes with experience. Which is something he lacks.

 

[Framfall]

as i said, sb's in the right hands with right equip/ra's > all

Well no offence Elajt, you are by far the hardest Inf out there, pre NF or post NF.

You usually are quite non biased but now you are just talking bollocks.

 

[Salamurhaaja]

as i said, sb's in the right hands with right equip/ra's > all

Sir, may I say that you are total smeee...
smeee...
smeee...
Oh forget it Sir.

<Lie mode on>

Sir, you are totally correct. How I haven't seen it before. Now it makes perfect sense.

 

[Ketinna]

As long as there are SBs there will be whining.

Younger people tend to care less about getting a challenge from the game, and if you want challenge you roll SB if you wanna win easy you roll Inf, and therefore there is a bigger population among younger people rolling inf, and there is also a bigger number of whiners in the young section or?

so in teori inf whine more but mythic figured this out and gave the Infs more speccpoints, and created a anticlimax where there would be little whine from the inf that has the biggest population.

 

[Arnor]

Are healers and clerics equal? no.

Are Armsmen and Warrior equal? No

Are wizards and runemasters equal? No

Are infils and SBs equal? They are comparable, and far more closely matched than any other class grouping. Are they identical? No - but its realms, not classes that are balanced. And the difference between NS>infil>Sb is measured in milimetres not miles (which more than be said of the other 3 examples....)

lol, you just had to didnt you?

tell me why armsmen and warriors arent equal btw, and wizards and rm's too please.
Armsmans biggest prob is pally imo, and wizards prob is prolly sorc. Why take a wizzie over a sorc, why take an arms over a pally.

healers... well we all know they are overpowered sons of bitches, no argument there.


And if sbs and infs are so damn closely matched, how are then zerkers/bm's/mercs?