Infil vs SB

[Framfall]

http://xandau.no-ip.com/~djinn/dmglog.htm

Judochop hitting Indriid in this test. The dmg looks totally normal to me, and I do know that it can be boosted some with an additional 5% style bonus and so forth, like for instance Forb has. Critical add dmg lines have been removed - what you see is the "pure" initial dmg.
The dmg in this test looks just a wee bit heavier than what I recall doing pre-NF using the exact same spec and equipment setup without the 20% bonus from relics we have now. My dmg before NF using heat on SB/NS averaged between 200-250, sometimes closing up to 270'ish. Doing some 300 hits in this test, averaging dmg on 250-270 or thereabout, slightly higher than before NF. Looks as expected for having 20% bonus to me.

Like Smilewhenyoustathat states, I agree aswell - An eventual Infil dmg bug would manifest itself in a REALLY obvious way. And technically it doesn't sound plausible that the Infil class itself would "suffer" from higher dmg output regardless fighting with slash, DW, CS or thrust.

Speculate for yourselves, people.

Thanks to Indriid for the test~

ZzzzzZzzzzzzZzzzzz

 

[rvn]

you only have aug str2 and no str cap? :<

 

[Khartoum]

The highest dmg ive taken from a PA is summat like 1200 from Varg, no inf has ever hit me that hard b4. admittedly i didnt have the right vest on and I was down maybe 5% from melee resists but still pretty impressive.

If I was an SB i'd ask him how to spec and what weapons to use, very rare a SB ever takes me out one on one but he hits like a truck the size of a very large thing.

Varg wields 2h, there's your answer to the 1xxx dmg PA.

 

[Khartoum]

ZzzzzZzzzzzzZzzzzz

That's probably what most others go through when they see you raving, being convinced the Inf class alone and isolated is bugged, doing extreme dmg with it's general skill lines available across the realms - but only when used on an inf!!

You're off on a limb. 20% relic + 10% style + 15% heater bonus. Duhh..

 

[Gesta]

Varg wields 2h, there's your answer to the 1xxx dmg PA.

This i know

2000+ dmg in 2 swings is kinda cool imo

 

[Vodkafairy]

well if there would be a bug, its definitely not in any specline but it could be that infils are on a higher damage table than ns/sb. either way, the most important advantages of infils are-

dual shadows, spec af, slash neutral armor, thrust/slash option

where sb's have shit LA mechanics, no spec af, slash weak armor when they can only spec slash

and atm they have relics, it all leads to an obvious point: infils win.

ns have a disadvantage because they have bugger all good styles, i wish we had ANYTHING that comes near dual shadows or doublefrost, but we don't. also we dont have spec af, which leads to infils winning most fights

using af charges and having conc based haste, ok, i can live with that. but i really think CD needs a proper anytime next to taunt.. something comparable to dual shadows/doublefrost. then im happy

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

Varg wields 2h, there's your answer to the 1xxx dmg PA.

But all the SBs say the 2H is a worthless ability

Why do i get the dinstinct impression that a vocal minority have leapt to an incorrect conclusion and are going to defend it regardless.

 

[Indrid]

But all the SBs say the 2H is a worthless ability

Why do i get the dinstinct impression that a vocal minority have leapt to an incorrect conclusion and are going to defend it regardless.

2h is nice, and crits nice aswell.. but u need 50sword, and 50cs for it to be good.. and u have to sacriface other things then.. and i tried 44sword+17 50cs+17 and i didnt hit for much more than 800 with 5.7sword. and i wouldnt call that very good.. those hits varg did with his 2h was a crit on 200-400, = 800+400 = 1200, and he had str relics.. but forb did 1200 PA on me with 1handers.. with 50+19slash and 39+19cs.. how do u explain that.. that was the mainhand damage btw.. battler.. as hard as a 2h 5.7spd..

explain plz

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

well if there would be a bug, its definitely not in any specline but it could be that infils are on a higher damage table than ns/sb. either way, the most important advantages of infils are-

dual shadows, spec af, slash neutral armor, thrust/slash option

DS - 0.80 growth rate, positional.

Garrotte - 0.75, anytime, movement reduction. Follow up Achilles - 1.05.

Garrotte/Achilles is a far better chain - and as its anytime is not avoidable by moving out of frontal arc.

Spec af vs charge and +%items = approx 30af difference - no biggie.

Slash neutral armour - why is that so great when NS have slash resistant armour?

where sb's have shit LA mechanics, no spec af, slash weak armor when they can only spec slash

Read the latest numbers Wyrrd just posted - LA is nowhere near subpar to CD.DW. Slash weak is irrelevant when all realms have elemental weapons.

and atm they have relics, it all leads to an obvious point: infils win.

So when hibs/mids take em back should we then nerf SBs/NS?

ns have a disadvantage because they have bugger all good styles, i wish we had ANYTHING that comes near dual shadows or doublefrost, but we don't. also we dont have spec af, which leads to infils winning most fights.

You have something better than DS - you have CS chains with higher growth rates. You have charges which get you close to infil af, and you have 20% haste on bots. NS is the best assassin in NF - and if you checked the game stats you'd find them top of the tree.

Why the fixation with DS? garr/ach will give you an average of 0.90 - compared to 0.80 from DS. Plus in CS you have hamstring/leaper - an excellent reactionery chain with 1.15/1.35 growth rates.

 

[Runolas]

But all the SBs say the 2H is a worthless ability

Why do i get the dinstinct impression that a vocal minority have leapt to an incorrect conclusion and are going to defend it regardless.

2H can be very effective in some situations, but as Varg as stated himself in a differnt post not long ago he is outgunned when facing equall RR Inf. This was prior to NF where he had MoA3 and haste if I'm not mistaken. So you basicly need 2BB's + high RR to get this to work and now there is no MoA.

 

[Framfall]

DS - 0.80 growth rate, positional.

Garrotte - 0.75, anytime, movement reduction. Follow up Achilles - 1.05.

Garrotte/Achilles is a far better chain - and as its anytime is not avoidable by moving out of frontal arc.

Spec af vs charge and +%items = approx 30af difference - no biggie.

Slash neutral armour - why is that so great when NS have slash resistant armour?



Read the latest numbers Wyrrd just posted - LA is nowhere near subpar to CD.DW. Slash weak is irrelevant when all realms have elemental weapons.



So when hibs/mids take em back should we then nerf SBs/NS?



You have something better than DS - you have CS chains with higher growth rates. You have charges which get you close to infil af, and you have 20% haste on bots. NS is the best assassin in NF - and if you checked the game stats you'd find them top of the tree.

Why the fixation with DS? garr/ach will give you an average of 0.90 - compared to 0.80 from DS. Plus in CS you have hamstring/leaper - an excellent reactionery chain with 1.15/1.35 growth rates.

ZzzzzZzzzz

 

[Ging]

But all the SBs say the 2H is a worthless ability

Why do i get the dinstinct impression that a vocal minority have leapt to an incorrect conclusion and are going to defend it regardless.

TBH Varg was and still is an EXceptional player - that makes a difference...

 

[Framfall]

That's probably what most others go through when they see you raving, being convinced the Inf class alone and isolated is bugged, doing extreme dmg with it's general skill lines available across the realms - but only when used on an inf!!

You're off on a limb. 20% relic + 10% style + 15% heater bonus. Duhh..

Your main being a SCOUT and your INF was cannonfodder in the old realm and probaly are now your point is like...ZzzzZzzzz to me.

let me know how you came to the conclusion I think as I do? fucking moron

 

[fotm]

DS - 0.80 growth rate, positional.

Garrotte - 0.75, anytime, movement reduction. Follow up Achilles - 1.05.


Why the fixation with DS? garr/ach will give you an average of 0.90 - compared to 0.80 from DS. Plus in CS you have hamstring/leaper - an excellent reactionery chain with 1.15/1.35 growth rates.

Who gives a shit about numbers on a paper? maybe you should actually play your liddul rr4 infil instead of reading retarded threads on VN.

Critfils today are strong, but mercfils is alot harder to kill so dont come here with something you "read" about, stupid VN retard

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

Who gives a shit about numbers on a paper? maybe you should actually play your liddul rr4 infil instead of reading retarded threads on VN.

Critfils today are strong, but mercfils is alot harder to kill so dont come here with something you "read" about, stupid VN retard

Oh dear me.

What more reliable - idiot whines like yours or figures derived from tests that show the growth rates.

I'm sure mythic would love top receive your insightful and reasoned analysis.

 

[Haldar]

hmm...think i'll say something.

1) in OF i never had a clean victory vs Forb. it was close fight always with either of us winning and losing, despite all 3 str relics in Mid.

both had high envenom.
both had som
his slash wpns met mine 19% resist to slash while my heat+slash were countered by his 16% heat and 26% slash.
no stun on his part vs hard-to-get on mine.
my spec was optimized for versatility and damage, his too (as it turns).
2388hp and 718af on my side are nothing to sneer about.
haste was not always available for me, dunno for him.

why?

2) several days ago i hit some luri NS for 295 dmg pre-resists with garrote. i was not debuffed. and generally i hit hib stealthers for FAR more dmg than alb ones.

there are some more facts which i cant remember now....but still...

i draw a conclusion from all this - it has to be something with spec AF buffs clerics got. "normal" AF charge bring my AF to 718 and reduce dmg i get by roughly 13% (by tests i made back in May 2003, hope they are still valid now), but it seems that spec AF, which increases infi's AF up to ~730 (not much diff, eh?), gives much more protection.

maybe it increases not only AF, but absorb as well?

i dont know it for sure ofc and would like to see it tested.

 

[Chronictank]

sb vrs infil movie proved that cleric af shifted the balance
ill have a delve tonight and host it for those who duno wtf im talking about

 

[Gesta]

also, to give SBs HAMMER specc?!?! uhm. in all the legends and stories where assasins have been a part of the story ive never ever ever heard about an assasin with hammer also. the name Shadowblade indicates that its someone wielding sharp objects, not crushing ones. sry pal, that aint gonna happen

but mythic allowed minstrels to wear chain, not that i normally wear chain (maybe only on the weekends) but you aint sneaking anywhere wearing chain so that comment doesn't hold and to try climbing wearing chain mail you'd prolly need to be one strong puppy.

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

So Haldar is running with 718af (mental note to self - leave hroft alone if spotted), and an infil has marginally more than that.

Says to me this is a non issue - again we're talking mm vs miles, and there are far bigger game issues affecting far far more people than a handful of disgruntled SBs.

 

[Haldar]

sb vrs infil movie proved that cleric af shifted the balance
ill have a delve tonight and host it for those who duno wtf im talking about

delves are available on net...real results with at least 100 swing with spec af and w/o it are needed.

also, to give SBs HAMMER specc?!?! uhm. in all the legends and stories where assasins have been a part of the story ive never ever ever heard about an assasin with hammer also. the name Shadowblade indicates that its someone wielding sharp objects, not crushing ones. sry pal, that aint gonna happen

blackjacks are thief/assasin weapons.

but mythic allowed minstrels to wear chain, not that i normally wear chain (maybe only on the weekends) but you aint sneaking anywhere wearing chain so that comment doesn't hold and to try climbing wearing chain mail you'd prolly need to be one strong puppy.

yep. wore chainmail, know it by own skin.

 

[Zeratuhl]

well doing PA with a 2h hammer would look kinda funneh and unrealistic too i mean ur supposed slit it apart with something sharp not bash it with a meat hammer imo. but thats just me

 

[Salamurhaaja]

Lotsa good old whine in this thread.

Merry Chrismas to everyone

My sub running out 16th December. Might take few runs before it just for fun :x

 

[Arnor]

just wondering after all this whine.

Do infils/albs/anyone actually mean/say/hint that sb's and infils are equal(if equally equipped/rr/relics) ?

 

[Veg]

errr, try again, there are screenies posted of damage like that.

Nope. There are pictures of a few attacks. Not entire rounds of fights (where damage is actually what you are all complaining it to be).
I could post pics of <insert class here> doing silly amounts of damage, yet it would be a compliation of fights, which doesn't prove anything.

 

[Jimmi]

You know what.

I hope Mythic fucks over the SB class even more, so less of the stuff on the picture will happen, because you'll all QQ to death.

5 mins ago on Brynja Bridge:

 

[Jimmi]

Oh and some nice dmg on achilles heal:

 

[rvn]

Oh dear me.

What more reliable - idiot whines like yours or figures derived from tests that show the growth rates.

I'm sure mythic would love top receive your insightful and reasoned analysis.

unexperienced players like yourself are very reliable yes

100% str weapons suck for stealthers, as you are going to be debuffed against those enemys that you can hit, and you are going to ride the zephyr if its an archer

then add the differance of specc af and you have yourself two disadvantages that makes a big differance.

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

unexperienced players like yourself are very reliable yes

100% str weapons suck for stealthers, as you are going to be debuffed against those enemys that you can hit, and you are going to ride the zephyr if its an archer

then add the differance of specc af and you have yourself two disadvantages that makes a big differance.

Oh? so how experienced a player do you have to be to understand mathematics and mechanics? or how experienced a view would you like? How about the guy who did a lot of the work on how styles and growth rates work? Or how LA mechanics function? You know - the one whos just been appointed zerker Tl and blown virtually all of the misconceived whiny crap that SBs have been posting for 10 patches out of the water?

RPs do not equal intelligence. They do not equal understanding of mechanics. They do not make you right. They do possibly make you a sad individual for spending too much time in an imaginary world were your self importance is determined by a number on a screen.

 

[rvn]

Oh? so how experienced a player do you have to be to understand mathematics and mechanics? or how experienced a view would you like? How about the guy who did a lot of the work on how styles and growth rates work? Or how LA mechanics function? You know - the one whos just been appointed zerker Tl and blown virtually all of the misconceived whiny crap that SBs have been posting for 10 patches out of the water?

RPs do not equal intelligence. They do not equal understanding of mechanics. They do not make you right. They do possibly make you a sad individual for spending too much time in an imaginary world were your self importance is determined by a number on a screen.

as you say sb = infil, when experienced ppl _really_ know the differance of being str/con debuffed for 100%, and not just 50% and the differance with spec af, more specc points, better armor table (even if lw weaps remove a part of that).

i can respect wyrd for mastering the numbers, but you are just a moron trying to justify your infils overpowered state.

and as far as i can tell you havnt done a shit in calculations or anything here, just basicly said QQ in another way to the sbs

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

as you say sb = infil, when experienced ppl _really_ know the differance of being str/con debuffed for 100%, and not just 50% and the differance with spec af, more specc points, better armor table (even if lw weaps remove a part of that).

i can respect wyrd for mastering the numbers, but you are just a moron trying to justify your infils overpowered state.

So is wyrd a moron - seeing as in your mind experience = correct, and he is obviously far more experienced than you. And wyrd has asserted that the 3 are balanced.

So being as experienced, and therefore as knowledgable, you'll be able to produce the data, tests or proof that infils are more powerful - or are you just repeating heresay and whiny crap - the same whiny crap that just been entirely discredited?