Important Information and Q&A!

MagnusGOA

English WAR Community Manager
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
224
There has - rightfully - been much confusion circulating regarding the offers and promises by the EA Store and direct2drive. I can only say two things on this as of now:


  1. We remain steadfast on our current line: Open Beta access is not planned to be a part of the European SE Pre-Order offer. In fact, we haven't even launched the SE Pre-Order campaign yet. This is due August 28th.
  2. At the end of the day, EA is in charge of distributing WAR in Europe. This is not to say they are to blame - it takes two to tango. They, just as we, are involved in this and we need to find a solution to this mess. GOA seniors have engaged in dialogue with EA and we are all eagerly awaiting the result of this.
This is a very important issue which has a high priority for us for many reasons. Trust me, we are working hard to get an answer to this asap.


-Magnus
 

Linnet

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
412
The sites say it does (and various UK laws say they have to honour this or offer a full refund) but :\

Yeah but they can't refund what you haven't yet paid and so as long as they inform you if the advertising changes before the drop date (ie. to give you a chance to cancel) they're probably golden.

Anyhow, thanks Magnus for keeping up with this one. As you say, a lot of people would like to know this.
 

Malcolm

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
598
Hmm. Depends if 'Direct2Drive' counts as a community site?

I assumed community sites would be ones like these, which would have giveaways or competitions, etc. Surely direct2drive is just an 'online retailer'?

well it appears to be owned by IGN who run VN Boards community site, but I agree.
 

peo

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
84
Considering that, I'm guessing here, most european nations have advertisementlaws very similar to eachother in how they can promise things or not there will probably legally be only one recourse. Se will be given open beta and all that.
Which adds insult to injury for ce buyers (it was the primary reason why CE got closed beta and preview in the US) in Europe as the contents of the CE box gets seriously watered down in comparison.

But this is based on a guess of having similar laws regarding making promises about things in Europe, which I'm fairly certain there is due to the EU.
 

Torn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
19
Considering that, I'm guessing here, most european nations have advertisementlaws very similar to eachother in how they can promise things or not there will probably legally be only one recourse. Se will be given open beta and all that.
Which adds insult to injury for ce buyers (it was the primary reason why CE got closed beta and preview in the US) in Europe as the contents of the CE box gets seriously watered down in comparison.

But this is based on a guess of having similar laws regarding making promises about things in Europe, which I'm fairly certain there is due to the EU.

Yes, there are various trade laws that apply here. The applicable EU directive is 97/7/EC which has been implemented by all member states in their own laws (e.g. for the UK that would be the Distance Selling Regulations 2000). Basically, if open beta isn't included in the product (as was advertised at the time of ordering) then the customers have every right to a full refund (despite what D2D and EA say regarding 'no refunds on MMOs') - just provide them a 'notice of cancellation' in a durable format, and e-mail counts.

The thing is, the only two sites promising open beta I can find are the official EA site and Direct2Drive.co.uk - both digital download services, not physical pre-orders. Maybe that makes things easier? I'm hoping that the EU subscribers here will count as part of the 55,000 'SE' pre-orders, or that all affected people can be added onto the open beta without much fuss.

I'd rather not cancel, but the main reason for me behind ordering the d2d version was that I would get open-beta along with the headstart, to give me time to see which classes I liked. :C

Anway, the future options as I see them:
a) Mythic/GOA add EU EAstore & D2D SE pre-orders to open beta in good faith, or
b) if (a) can't be done, retailers apologise and make full refunds available to customers (they will be legally obliged to do this)

c) if open beta can't be done, then Mythic/GOA might email special codes to the pre-order download customers affected, with another unique in-game item, or some other bonus (such as extend the SE headstart to match those with CE). Thing is, that would get the CE and US people whining, so that's pretty unlikely.
 

Xandax

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
911
Considering that, I'm guessing here, most european nations have advertisementlaws very similar to eachother in how they can promise things or not there will probably legally be only one recourse. Se will be given open beta and all that.
Which adds insult to injury for ce buyers (it was the primary reason why CE got closed beta and preview in the US) in Europe as the contents of the CE box gets seriously watered down in comparison.

But this is based on a guess of having similar laws regarding making promises about things in Europe, which I'm fairly certain there is due to the EU.

Except it isn't necessarily GOA or even Mythic which have to "pay" for others mess up. Might just be the instances who advertised falsely to begin with.
 

Faya

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
361
I love, for this post only, to disturb the flow but in the GERMAN version of the News letter, SE is adverted with OB access.

Faya
 

peo

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
84
Except it isn't necessarily GOA or even Mythic which have to "pay" for others mess up. Might just be the instances who advertised falsely to begin with.

Which seems to be EA in the EA-Store case.
 

Mehuge

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
188
.

I asked a question on the original Q&A thread on WHA which was asking why GOA chose to go with flash dispite the majority of the community seemingly not wanting it which I dont think has been answered. This is kind of the same question Nate posted above.

Q. Why did GOA choose to stick with the flash website dispite the community asking for a non-flash site?

I get the feeling the flash website is an embarrasing subject for GOA and the CMs have been instructed to not answer questions about it, we have discussed this several times on the beta boards and we never got any difinitive answeres there either. The one question we have now had answered doesnt really tell us anything except that we wont have an HTML version for release.

Is GOA not interested in the opinions of the community with regard to the flash website? Obviously the only answer you can give to this is yes, even if its really no.

Is the Account section of the website going to be in flash too? (crys it if it as I remember the pain and frustration of using DAoC account management)

Is the payment authorisation going to be better (seamlessly) integrated rather than jumping out to some third party website?

If I enter my credit card number incorrectly, will I have to wait 24 hours before I can try again like I did in DAoC? (which was rediculous quite frankly given the payment technologies available at the time)

Whilst some will defend flash, and make some very valid arguments for why its not really a problem, the fact remains that people have less issues with and are more happy with more standard html+css based websites. For one they use core browser abilities rather than relying on third party addons. And when was the last time you read a post complaining that www.warhammeronline.com does not load properly or work properly?
 

MagnusGOA

English WAR Community Manager
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
224
I love, for this post only, to disturb the flow but in the GERMAN version of the News letter, SE is adverted with OB access.

Faya

The information given out in the German newsletter is false. Ultimately, myself and my colleagues are responsible for the accuracy of the newsletter. What happened this month is an unfortunate combination of events and situations, but ultimately, it boil down to human error.

To repeat: SE Pre-Orders will not grant automatic Open Beta access anywhere in Europe, including Germany.

Unfortunately, Sterntaler is currently in Leipzig, so conveying this message to the German communities will not be a trivial task.


-Magnus
 

Faya

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
361
Thank you for the swift clarification :)
As much as i agree, humans make mistake, maybe sending out emails to german customers would help managing this thing, as it might aswell end in a very big uproar from the german side?
As it is, it actually IS making a big turmoil on english/other language fan sites..

Faya
 

Torn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
19
To repeat: SE Pre-Orders will not grant automatic Open Beta access anywhere in Europe, including Germany.

So.. any chance of Mythic / GOA - as a gesture of good will - letting into OB those that have ordered SE versions from EA's official store, and direct2drive, where it still says 'includes open beta access'?

I mean, the infrastructure's going to be in place for launch, right, so would it hurt that much to let in a few more (possibly tens of?) thousands of Europeans that have pre-ordered from the official EA online store?
 

Torn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
19
Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong... it could be that the 55,000 SE open beta will cover all of the EA Store and direct2drive.co.uk SE pre-orders (as they would be 'community sites')?

What happens if EAStore and direct2drive.co.uk sell more than 50,000 download pre-orders for the SE though? o_O

Some clarification on the position of EA's Online UK store and direct2drive.co.uk would be VERY appreciated, as well as details to how the 55,000 open beta keys for SE pre-orders are being divided up.
 

Skorn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
83
READ THIS!
Snipped from the August War Newsletter.
<snip>
Players can access the Open Beta in one of two ways:
]1. Pre-Order the Collector’s edition of the game and receive a code to join the Open Beta. For more information, visit the WAR Pre-Order page.
2. Starting the first week of September, visit the EA Store to sign up for one of the limited number of spots offered by them. This is on a first come, first serve basis.

Note: If you have been playing in the Closed Beta your access will continue into the Open Beta
<snip>
 

Torn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
19
READ THIS!
Snipped from the August War Newsletter.
<snip>
Players can access the Open Beta in one of two ways:
]1. Pre-Order the Collector’s edition of the game and receive a code to join the Open Beta. For more information, visit the WAR Pre-Order page.
2. Starting the first week of September, visit the EA Store to sign up for one of the limited number of spots offered by them. This is on a first come, first serve basis.

Note: If you have been playing in the Closed Beta your access will continue into the Open Beta
<snip>
Thanks for that Skorn. Pretty disappointing that both the official EA Store site AND direct2drive.co.uk are still (at the time of writing) saying that ordering through them will include open beta. That's almost scandalous. If it's now to be 'first come first served', why are they continuing to mislead customers?

Would others in my situation, as direct2drive customers, not be eligible for the EA 'giveaway'?



If the keys are now to be a 'free for all' because EA has severely messed up here and has not organised any coherent / sane form of key allocation of the 55,000 keys, come Sept 1st those keys are going to get snapped up in a few hours flat. That's going to leave tens of thousands of people that were promised open beta keys - which EA and d2d are contractually bound to deliver - left holding their privates and with the only option to 'suck it up or ask for a refund'.

This is far from satisfactory. Sorry if I'm coming across as a nag here, but could GOA / Mythic not communicate with EA & d2d in some way that allows all of the SE EU pre-orders there to get sent open beta keys? I mean the retail infrastructure is going in place anyway, as launch is only 10 days after the start of open beta.


Please, GOA / Mythic, if you are reading this -- as a gesture of goodwill -- give out OB keys (& the other in-game items like the ring, the camp, headstart) to those who were promised them at the time of purchase (i.e. EA & d2d SE online pre-orders, which are still advertising this).


Furthermore, if the SE pre-orders don't get open beta invites, how about the rest of the promised stuff? Here's what direct2drive.co.uk showed me at the time of purchase, and is still offering to customers that pre-order with them, along with the equivalent purchase page on EAStore uk (click for big):

 

Xandax

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
911
Well - heaven knows that I do not usually mind a good GOA bashing when there is something to it.
But it could be that GOA and/or Mythic have been in contact with EA Store and direct2drive who're just lazy with updating their web page or for some other reason.

It might very well be out of their hands, that these companies advertise as they do, especially when Magnus have stated the official GOA line for the product (a couple of times).

Complain to EA Store and direct2drive about their advertisement, because it could easily be a ploy from their side to get more people to buy from them, and then just afterwards claim they were in "good faith".


My beef in this however, is the same as usual, and something I've mentioned numerous times.
I find it incredible strange information provided in these threads which are of value to many potential CUSTOMERS aren't presented on GOA's website as well.
This information (pre-order) - along with a lot of other not there - is exactly why companies have web pages and why many people think GOAs is failing with communication with the community.
People look to the web sites for information, not 10 odd fan forums, lest they already are regulars there, and I would hope GOA expects to target more people then just "us". :twak:
So communication 101 would dictate to provide the information in the way it reaches most people - hence it also belongs on the web site. It should be common knowledge for everybody.
 

Faya

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
361
Die europäische Pre-Order Standard Edition gewährt euch _keinen_ automatischen Zugang zur Open Beta von Warhammer Online. Obwohl es zur Zeit etwas drunter und drüber geht, entschuldigt das natürlich nicht solch eine schwerwiegende Fehlinformation in unserem Newsletter.
Letztenendes war es das Community Management Team, welches für das Verfassen und die Genauigkeit des Newsletters verantwortlich war, und wir entschuldigen uns aufrichtig für die entstandene Verwirrung.

The EU pre order SE does NOT give automatic entry to the OB of WAR.
The fact that it is abit chaotic here at the moment of course doesnt excuse such a big error in our news letter.
In the end it was the CMT, which are responsibel for making the newsletter and we really apologize for the confusion this had caused.

I roughly translated the NEWS on the EU WAR page and i have to say, if you GOA can keep the speed up to give such information
:clap::clap::clap::drink:

This is a very good first step, hopefully followed by a crowd of more steps which ultimatly will be a huge crowd of customers for you and players for the comunity :)

Faya
 

Oldleaf

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
38
I fought Mythic an’ GOA would run equal in beta, information an’ retail. It looks like GOA is allready behind before da open beta starts. Dere is just not even any information while on da uvva side of da pool dere is lotza activity.

Will it be da same old story like in DAOC were we ’ad only da friday news while da Camelot ’erald ’as so much more information?
 

e0b1ff

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
45
I fought Mythic an’ GOA would run equal in beta, information an’ retail. It looks like GOA is allready behind before da open beta starts. Dere is just not even any information while on da uvva side of da pool dere is lotza activity.

Will it be da same old story like in DAOC were we ’ad only da friday news while da Camelot ’erald ’as so much more information?

and what is that in English?
 

pikeh

Resident Freddy
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Messages
5,032
I fought Mythic an’ GOA would run equal in beta, information an’ retail. It looks like GOA is allready behind before da open beta starts. Dere is just not even any information while on da uvva side of da pool dere is lotza activity.

Will it be da same old story like in DAOC were we ’ad only da friday news while da Camelot ’erald ’as so much more information?

Are you roleplaying an Orc or something?
 

Oldleaf

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
38
Me a big Orc an’ if da new world will not be born in time i go sharpen me blades an’ go afta da GOA clan to kick deir butts.
 

Skorn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
83
Well - heaven knows that I do not usually mind a good GOA bashing when there is something to it.
But it could be that GOA and/or Mythic have been in contact with EA Store and direct2drive who're just lazy with updating their web page or for some other reason.

It might very well be out of their hands, that these companies advertise as they do, especially when Magnus have stated the official GOA line for the product (a couple of times).

Complain to EA Store and direct2drive about their advertisement, because it could easily be a ploy from their side to get more people to buy from them, and then just afterwards claim they were in "good faith".


My beef in this however, is the same as usual, and something I've mentioned numerous times.
I find it incredible strange information provided in these threads which are of value to many potential CUSTOMERS aren't presented on GOA's website as well.
This information (pre-order) - along with a lot of other not there - is exactly why companies have web pages and why many people think GOAs is failing with communication with the community.
People look to the web sites for information, not 10 odd fan forums, lest they already are regulars there, and I would hope GOA expects to target more people then just "us". :twak:
So communication 101 would dictate to provide the information in the way it reaches most people - hence it also belongs on the web site. It should be common knowledge for everybody.

I think that for whatever reason, the website takes a long time to be updated (Tech. issues?), but I for one am glad we get the news here as soon as Magnus or Ian can verify it, I'm sure the website will show the details as soon as it can be done.
No disrespect, I understand your frustration, as do many others.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I say what I think.
 

Skorn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
83
Thanks for that Skorn. Pretty disappointing that both the official EA Store site AND direct2drive.co.uk are still (at the time of writing) saying that ordering through them will include open beta. That's almost scandalous. If it's now to be 'first come first served', why are they continuing to mislead customers?

Would others in my situation, as direct2drive customers, not be eligible for the EA 'giveaway'?



If the keys are now to be a 'free for all' because EA has severely messed up here and has not organised any coherent / sane form of key allocation of the 55,000 keys, come Sept 1st those keys are going to get snapped up in a few hours flat. That's going to leave tens of thousands of people that were promised open beta keys - which EA and d2d are contractually bound to deliver - left holding their privates and with the only option to 'suck it up or ask for a refund'.

This is far from satisfactory. Sorry if I'm coming across as a nag here, but could GOA / Mythic not communicate with EA & d2d in some way that allows all of the SE EU pre-orders there to get sent open beta keys? I mean the retail infrastructure is going in place anyway, as launch is only 10 days after the start of open beta.


Please, GOA / Mythic, if you are reading this -- as a gesture of goodwill -- give out OB keys (& the other in-game items like the ring, the camp, headstart) to those who were promised them at the time of purchase (i.e. EA & d2d SE online pre-orders, which are still advertising this).


Furthermore, if the SE pre-orders don't get open beta invites, how about the rest of the promised stuff? Here's what direct2drive.co.uk showed me at the time of purchase, and is still offering to customers that pre-order with them, along with the equivalent purchase page on EAStore uk (click for big):


N.P. Torn, I woudn't count the chickens before they hatch just yet, there must be some kind of communication breakdown in one direction or the other somewhere and to change the advertised pre-order benifits would be a massive fopar. I'm sure that the guys at GOA are trying to resolve this issue A.S.A.P., and hopefully to the benefit of customers that have pre-ordered with OB in mind!
I for one have not pre-ordered yet, and I am keeping a very close eye on how this problem is dealt with, as I think that it will be an indicator of how all other problems are treated.
On a side note, what's the benifit of pre-ordering a direct download, if you don't get something extra (OB), from what I can see it costs more than pre-ordering an se box.
I hope you get exactly what you ordered Torn and the same to everybody else that ordered the direct download from these sites!

And to EA and D2D if you don't deliver, I'm gonna sing a little song for you, it goes like this; IT'S TO LATE TO POLOGIZE...... IT'S TO LATE.........

peace out..
 

Xandax

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
911
Question: When the realm war pages get active (is that day 1 of live?), will we be able to get XML source as we did with DAoC? (hopefully more stable sources, but... :) )
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
It's not that unmonitored, it's written by 4 games journalists who write for a number of other places too :)

Think he meant more that the language isn't always the cleanest. A bit like FH then :)
 

peo

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
84
I wonder if it would be possible for GoA to make sure CE holders get preferential treatment in the downloading of the OB.
Would do some good as we pay for it in the added cost of the CE afterall, it also would mean that we have a better chance of getting in the OB in time if the downloading site lacks the bandwidth to handle all of the downloaders.
 

Xandax

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
911
Are you actually complimenting them? you have to translate german news to actually know what's going on and you complimenting them? What the hell

Yes - it is incredible in my book that we still have to go through these hoops to know what is going on. Language translations should not be a means to obfuscate the "news".
When it isn't posted somewhere hidden in a fan forum so we're not sure we'll see it, it is posted on another language and we'll have to rely on community translations.

Use the website, post news. Simple.
 

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