I'm sick of charging the relic

[old.Enigma]

Dear Middies,

Are you sick of getting a call saying relic raid in 1 hour. You go get your rams you port to Hadrians and our only tactic as always is "OK lets charge the relic hopefully noone will spot us."

These things get discussed . talk to your guild leaders they represent you in the alliance. To the allliance leaders I say listen to your realm. Even if you think they are wrong you go with what they say.

Anyway i may be the only person who feels this way so have set up a poll.

We do plan but we rarely tactical. Routes are planned Ram teams are planned with who hits the door. Theseare important and I appreciate the effort. But our tactics have moved not much further forward than beta.


P.S. This newb can't find the poll button tell me where or just post your Yes No maybe type answers below.

 

[old.Khain]

see what you are not told is we have a master master master plan..


We dont realy want to get the relics what the plan is we just keep costing the albs tons and tons in gold.. so they have to farm for more and more and more gold keeping them away from RvR cos they out number us so much.

thier is you thinking we are trying to get a relic....

We are not an allaince, we are a Hord, with realm communication.

I think one of the core issuse is the /who <guild> command where they only see a few ppl online so not botherd with that guild where the fact is they have 30 ppl online that are /anon so dont show.

Has a Guild GM i will say I have Never once been pre informed of any relic raid ever.

 

[Myshra]

jesus sat/sun relic raid was like a military operation in the unity alliance

get some dicipline

 

[Gimly]

Originally posted by Myshra
jesus sat/sun relic raid was like a military operation in the unity alliance

get some dicipline

Was not just the Unity... Knights of Albion were there also.

 

[old.Enigma]

Lets not change the subject albs no catfighting here

 

[Fightersuntzu]

Originally posted by Gimly



Was not just the Unity... Knights of Albion were there also.

Ahem, and EC too. We didnt sit on our asses all day y'know.

/smacks foolish realmies around with large trout(s)

 

[Ottar]

> Comments made by me on these boards (too) are not
> and will not, be on a personal lvl

Damn. I have just wrote and deleted 3 different replies to this thread, trying hard to not get personal. Failed each time ;(

To Enigna:

Sorry, my sympathies but raising that subject aint working.

Ottar

 

[Makwaerk]

Our long time planed raids, are allways leeked to the albs.. so we dont have much choice m8. The one hour preplanning is to protech against spies

 

[Ottar]

> Our long time planed raids, are allways leeked to the albs.. so we
> dont have much choice m8. The one hour preplanning is to protech
> against spies

1. The one-hour preplanning ain’t working.

2. Fear of alb spies is at least somewhat exagerated.

For comparison, think how often huge alb/hib forces have been spotted in Odin’s and Jamtland. That enables us to get people to relic keeps rather swiftly. Same happens to us - albs patroling Hadrians or just randomly running around there spot us. They really don’t have to have spies for that.

Ok, lets asume we have spies. Someone who has 2 accounts or has a friend/spouse on another realm, providing information on raids. What can we do?

Announcing raids 1 hour ahead? That would relay on that same spie or spies not being online suring that hour and therefore not able to pass on the info. If he is online, 1 hour is plenty of time to get people to their relic keeps. We, however, have farther to go and more people to assemble, therefore losing more from that short notice than we gain.

What can be done then, against spies?

Lets not use public channels. Raid leader informs guildmasters/officers of the time and place. Guildmasters/officers elect group leaders amongst their guilds. Each group leader pre-assembles his group. Each group leader then reports back to GM with numbers in his group. GM reports back to raidleader with number of groups, names of group leaders, total number of people and rams coming to the raid.

No public channel used. Not a word in as or guild chats. All people coming to the raid are deemed trustworthy by their guild officers. As a side effect, raidleader would have approximate idea of how many people are coming and a list of groupleaders. Having such list actually enables him to set specific tasks to specific groups, i.e employ tactical planning.

This still does nothing to insure us against people simply spotting us when we move through alb territory.

Ottar

 

[old.Chavez]

Wth ??? thought you did that already lol.

 

[old.Jadow]

Regarding spies...

Someone from Mid was quite bitter about this last night, so let me assure you guys of something.

To my knowledge we have no second accounters spying on what mids are up to. Frankly it'd be a pretty sad individual who did that while they could be having fun on their main account.

The last two relic raids were spotted because

1) I was running an alt up to excal to check just because emain was quiet &

2) I had left Jadow parked in benowyc the night before, had made a little food and gotten a little lost and when I got back experienced massive lag in the pennines, only to turn around and see a relic sized force hugging the zone wall.

Both of these can be put down to luck. We do have regular patrols in the pennines, this much is true, Generally it's people who are xping up there and offer to keep an eye open at the same time.

Don't get -too- paranoid about the whole thing!

Jadow
Level 50 Infiltrator
Saracen Gryphon Knight
Servants of The Lake

 

[krill-nyd]

This may be partly a cross-alliance issue. I've been in lots of 'plan the raid' chat groups. So many my heart sinks a bit these days when that chat group window pops. But these are usually for the Nemesis-led alliance. I hope and think some cross-alliance contact is being made but perhaps we need to think about more.

Getting a relic-sized force into a watched frontier undetected is ... well really hard. I remember Midgard used to be accused of having spies because we were able to react quickly to invaders in our frontier. That's because when holding the relics you tend to keep a close eye on your frontiers. This doesn't mean we aren't being spied on, seems unfortunately possible to me at the moment. But assuming we aren't I'd still expect a relic raid force to be spotted and some reaction to come fairly quickly. Finding a full defence force already inside the relic keep ... that's one thing but finding defenders arriving quickly is another.

Enigma, fair enough it's really frustrating to get out there and get back without a relic. It's annoying if you haven't been part of the planning, it may appear just as a big mess. But some people are spending lots of time planning and preparing, think how frustrating it is for them as well. Maybe offering some alternative tactics would be a more constructive response.

 

[Old Nicodemus]

Cross alliance communication is happening, however when it takes 20 mins for a pm to actually be answered then things break down.

Last Night the Fedaykin alliance went on a keep raid. It was just for fun and not really intended to be a relic attempt. However after we had taken Beno I was informed that the Nemesis allaince was massing in the PK.

Now I hold my hand up and admit that there were attempts to coordinate between us. However when leading a raid you do tend to have a lot of spam and a lot of quick decisions to make. Sometimes you ignore some things to concentrate on getting 40 odd people moving.

However. I pm'd a plan to the other alliance that would have worked very well. However I was ignored. Not a lot you can do about that really. So the end result was that we continued to have fun doing our raid (well defended albs, we'll get you next time )

In the end folks this game is all about having fun. I do agree about having more communication but sometimes in the heat of battle you tend to ignore things said to concentrate on kicking butt!

Nicodemus
Spiritmaster of over 40 winters

 

[old.Tbird]

Actually our planning needs to go back to real basics, while banging out my last bub last night I was watching guild chat during a RR and two of the quotes that stuck in my mind were 'agro worms AGAIN' and 'it wouldn't be a relic raid without running through an agro spawn'. Later that night I joined a 2nd raid and what happens, we run through the worms and a huge spawn of semi-transparent mobs (cth-something?).

Much as I realise the Alb frontier is harder to navigate than Hib or Mid some of our point men really must work out a safer route than the one we always seem to take.

 

[old.Revz]

The Alb frontier is one of our greatest defences

 

[Ardwan]

Aye, I must say that I am surpised by the amount of Albs that are killed in Pennines each time we move through there, so it is probably inevitable that you Middies will hit some too, unless you go the "safe route", which involves passing nearly every keep, and possibly seeing Albs.

 

[Solid]

No offence to the Middie Alliance but half the guildds that WOULD LIKE to come on a relic raid and WOULD LIKE to do there part dont get the chance because they are out of the loop.

I have mentioned this before to select raid leaders bit for god sakes, go get a list of all active guilds with 20+ active characters levels 40-50.

Its clear we are heavily outnumbered yet we still go in with no more than a 10 guild showing, when there are 25+ guilds with members in the 40-50 level range.

I assume chat groups have been fixed to allow up to 50 members? Then get names of 2-3 high rank players from each guild, ontpo a scrap of paper and when you plan a raid, just /cg invite the whole list.

Those that can help will stay, at least you get to ask em.

 

[Venemous]

...

especially those cth-somethings...

 

[Venemous]

..

Hey my post was meant to be 2 posts up... aww it doesnt make sense now eheh

 

[trigali]

Originally posted by krill-nyd
Maybe offering some alternative tactics would be a more constructive response.

Hi Krill, good to see you around.

One of the things I regret about our keep-raiding strategy is that it is addressed exclusively to the 40+.

Now I do understand that below that level, the chances for a player to actually do anything better than cause lag is minimal.

However there must be a way to put to good use the very large force available in Midgard, the hundreds of 30-39 players. This would both possibly be a help to the spear-head of the attack (i.e. the high powered guys bashing at the uber guards and the keep doors) but would also restaure this sense of belonging that we once had in our realm and which now seems largely lost.

It does not take rocket science to find what us lower-levels could do, although I don't feel that these forums are really the best place to lay them out.

I do have 3-4 ideas though, which could be easily put into practice. Happy to share them if you want to msn/pm me.

 

[Cavex ElSaviour]

Defendind a relic isn't all fun and game too. If you're exping in lyon and u hear over the alliance chat: CALL TO ARMS, MIDDIES COMING FOR THE RELICS. its a pretty long ride back to excalibure. most times u arrive just in time to hear that the middies got slaughtered

 

[Myshra]

sorry albs, i meant how the thing was organised with leaders giving orders in just our alliance over /as, i know EC and knights were also there, i didn't mean that we did it solo

no hard feelings, lets just watch the middies bitch at each other

 

[ivan_tribbiani]

Originally posted by Cavex ElSaviour
Defendind a relic isn't all fun and game too. If you're exping in lyon and u hear over the alliance chat: CALL TO ARMS, MIDDIES COMING FOR THE RELICS. its a pretty long ride back to excalibure. most times u arrive just in time to hear that the middies got slaughtered

(i) Yup takes approx 15 minutes to get from Lyon to Sausage, and i gotta tell ya its no fun. You cant go AFK for the duration as you need to jump off the bloody train. So as it were at some point i personally heard 4 calls to arms. Doing the math : 15X 4 = 60 minutes and thats if i recall correctly within the duration of 10hours. 1/10 of playtime dedicated to Travelling. Not counting the actual defense time.

(ii) Usual keep defense scenario <through the eyes of an unskilled infiltrator> :

Run at your slug speed to Excalibur
Climb up, start camping tower, protecting casters.
20 minutes of lag and middies retreat/get slaughtered by guard spawn.
Due to the fact that everyone was late for relic defense initially doors are down substantially.
Do the running man ---> Wood runs.
Empty pockets at end of week.
Thinking of money hunting......the idea of starting from 30 gold which wont even be nuff for repairs scares you....

....Loop that, then decide what is required <im talking personalities here> not for Relic Raid but for Relic Defense.

To me relic defense is exciting and ill always answer a call to arms, but ultimately its very timedemanding and costly.

And to comment Ottar :

Yeah you can get frustrated with "unsuitable" tactics when at Relic Raids , but think how hard it is to capture it when you are outnumbered <usually at least 2/1> and annoyed by guard pops. And sneaking a sizable force through aggro spots and avoiding Albs is virtually impossible.

At the end of the day, when someone comes up with the masterplan for easy <defended> keep taking RvR experience will reach a whole new level. As it stands right now Zerging is the 'Common Utility' and outnumbering and levels usually determines the outcome in keep sieges.

 

[VidX]

Originally posted by old.Tbird
Actually our planning needs to go back to real basics, while banging out my last bub last night I was watching guild chat during a RR and two of the quotes that stuck in my mind were 'agro worms AGAIN' and 'it wouldn't be a relic raid without running through an agro spawn'. Later that night I joined a 2nd raid and what happens, we run through the worms and a huge spawn of semi-transparent mobs (cth-something?).

Much as I realise the Alb frontier is harder to navigate than Hib or Mid some of our point men really must work out a safer route than the one we always seem to take.

GRR!

Pennines is a hell-hole!

Spawns change position to be right in front of you...

Hell, the mountains and keeps move around too!

Grr @ the Drakes that seem to always be right in front of you, even when you are halfway across the zone from them.

I think I'm gonna go walkies in the Pennines some day, nothing to lose not that I'm 50.

 

[old.Tbird]

Originally posted by trigali
However there must be a way to put to good use the very large force available in Midgard, the hundreds of 30-39 players.

Without sounding like i'm putting them down cannon fodder is the expression that comes to mind, every swing a guard/Alb takes on a 30+ is one less on a 40+ damage dealer. The only very real danger is that you'll lose a lot to exp deaths just getting there.

 

[krill-nyd]

Solid, I kind of agree but people also need to acknowledge the work that is done. I've spent literally hours and hours in alliance meetings and command group cg's and I'm not a raid leader or can even make lots of raids: the raid leaders must spend loads of time doing this. So while I agree, it's nice to note that some people are really trying and putting in lots of work but it's not easy. I once put an email list together for the alliance to try and help communicate. ... that was fun I can tell you.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not flaming back. If there are guilds out of the loop then they need to be brought in, it's a serious problem, I agree entirely. Thereis an alliance forum as well (not the stratics one it's moved) and I see hardly anyone there. If we knew all guilds would check it we coudl post times there, discuss plans in advance etc.

I hate seeing the flaming in as that happened after the raid: both from those criticising and those defending their work. Much nicer to see Shabish calling people out to Albionland because it's fun.

 

[Ottar]

> I do have 3-4 ideas though, which could be easily put into practice.
> Happy to share them if you want to msn/pm me.

Dejavu time. Had the same argument in late beta with then GM of TU. Sorry but I think you are going at it from the wrong end. For those 3-4, pretty much every on assumes those sub 40 characters are assembled into different force(s) and then lead to do something meaningful.

At present, we can observe very little capacity to get a smaller, 40+ force of supposedly RvR veterans to organize. If we included more people in a chaos, we would simply create a bigger chaos. And feeding more realmpoints to them albs.

Those sub 40 people would have to get organized by themselves. Sadly, there is noone to do it for them. Im quite certain, that if a person showed up on one of those raidplanning chatgroups and told that “gentlemen, next time you go raiding, give me 24h notice and I will get you 6 full groups of people from levels 30 to 40, a healer and a pbt runie in each, with whom I can do this and that and perhaps even that for you, so you have better chances of actually getting a relic”. If he then delivered on such a promise.. hell, I vow on my 99% quality Hellskor made hammer, I get full group of EoO to level the bugger to 50 asap so he can come lead us big guys instead. Any takers?

Ottar

 

[Solid]

Ottar my SB is 40 I can do that for ya

OK next rrelic raid I will coordinate the sub 40 guys
and the rest of the folowing week u and EoO PL me to 50? sound good?

 

[old.Tbird]

Originally posted by ivan_tribbiani
(i) Yup takes approx 15 minutes to get from Lyon to Sausage, and i gotta tell ya its no fun. You cant go AFK for the duration as you need to jump off the bloody train.

I've never played Alb but looking at your horse routes you at least 'appear' to have a horse to Cornwall close to Lyonesse, try getting a call when in a Malm group you have to cross better part of 3 zones before you even get to a horse

 

[Jupitus]

Originally posted by old.Tbird

I've never played Alb but looking at your horse routes you at least 'appear' to have a horse to Cornwall close to Lyonesse, try getting a call when in a Malm group you have to cross better part of 3 zones before you even get to a horse

That's for those who are hunting in Lyonesse (it's still a good 10 minute trip without speed to the closest horse at the famous Yarley farm, and god help anyone who's killed one too many of their piggies whilst cooking up the morning's bacon butties)... the equivalent of Malmo would (I think) be Dartmoor, and sure enough that's quite a trek to get back from - try to do it at speed and you'd be better advised to simply flick a bogey at Golestandt instead