Idea to lower effect of Pets in RvR

[aika]

mentalist ns is shit though, since its a double effect spell ( like Wizard ns), it gets resisted too often. Single heals can go for 550ish with full mentalist spec and some healing effec in template.

My personal opinion though is if you're healing on a mentalist - your grp is already fucked

and kagato: Most theurgists actually are Earth now. ( At least the ones grp'd).

 

[Sharkith]

Sorry I really don't see any justification for the whine. Very little has changed and even less that can't be solved by good play.

If you read it a bit more closely you will see the whine is actually about the lack of interrupts on Hib versus the other realms. The bar is a lot higher in Hib and everyone knows it - you should see how many Albs and Mids come to play on Hib and after kitting out their toons fuck off again because of it.

There are two possible solutions - reduce the interrupts on the other realms (as OP has suggested) or try to give the Hibs back something that gives them more. If I get you right you would not reduce the interrupts on Alb - would you then suggest that Hib needs something more?

In many ways you are right - the Theurg was not really played as an interrupt tool until relatively recently in the history of the game and so why nerf it because of one specialised use of the class? Thats a fair point.

It doesn't solve the basic realm imbalance though.

One suggestion might be to make aoe bombers less a bomb and more a sprite that can interrupt - but doing that makes them more like the Theurg....

Honestly it is easy to complain - solutions are harder to suggest.

Sharkith

p.s. are you the person who runs Eul btw?

 

[Kagato]

I made an armsman today she is 35 already , im brining in the pain

Hurrah ! Good taste.

 

[Kagato]

If you read it a bit more closely you will see the whine is actually about the lack of interrupts on Hib versus the other realms. The bar is a lot higher in Hib and everyone knows it - you should see how many Albs and Mids come to play on Hib and after kitting out their toons fuck off again because of it.

There are two possible solutions - reduce the interrupts on the other realms (as OP has suggested) or try to give the Hibs back something that gives them more. If I get you right you would not reduce the interrupts on Alb - would you then suggest that Hib needs something more?

In many ways you are right - the Theurg was not really played as an interrupt tool until relatively recently in the history of the game and so why nerf it because of one specialised use of the class? Thats a fair point.

It doesn't solve the basic realm imbalance though.

One suggestion might be to make aoe bombers less a bomb and more a sprite that can interrupt - but doing that makes them more like the Theurg....

Honestly it is easy to complain - solutions are harder to suggest.

Sharkith

p.s. are you the person who runs Eul btw?

Nope, my mid alt is fairly easy to spot, she's called KagatoIsOnHoliday and only comes out to play when I feel like winding a few mid friend/foes up ! And my hib alt comes out even less often as I just CBA to get the last few levels and kit up.

In fact if I'm playing anything other then my main, it's normally my buffbot, can't explain why but I actually enjoy playing the buffbot.

I'm convinced that most grouped theurgists are earth now, I've always liked the spec personally even before the nukes but still seems very unpopular. It's just not flashy or fun! However the point that interrupts need to be evened out between the realms may be right, however different realms having different advantages has always been a feature of the game.

We've never had instant CC and whined about it for years, and that never got changed either for example. And we've had to suffer double-spec for years and whined about it since day one and still we have to put up with it, therefore losing tank versitality.
Be a bit boring if all realms had the exact same benefits.

 

[Genedril]

Whilst I commend you for a well thought out reply, devoid of the typical childish and pointless insults seen in many posts here I have to disagree with you still.

No need to whine - I'd far rather be constructive

Yes there were some good Albion groups (though I wouldn't say TT were one of them) but the other realms still managed to achieve more with alot less simply due to having more key abilities on less classes, heck a Warden is nearly half a group by himself.
Secondly majority of the factors you mentioned like power pool and range became availible to ALL realms with toa, yes classes that previously had poor range or cast speed could improve themselves, but so can all the people they will be fighting against too! This was in no way a boost to Albion alone, and the class your all complaining about has remained mostly unchanged since release, certainly since old frontiers compared to all other albion spellcasters.
Heck it has actually been nerfed Range wise, nobody was complaining back when pets had 2,000 range, now at 1,875 everyones whining?

Fought TT and they were a very very good group. Fought PE and they made me cry / leave my guild group / quit.

How you think wardens are half a group is beyond me. Good wardens are good but then any good player is good so that's not the point. They've got resists and BG (so have friars and pallys) they can pinch heal and they can interupt (in melee) but then so can any tank. They're not going to dps in a group - ever. If they're running celerity for the train to increase DPS for the other tanks then they're not going to be BG'ing anyone. By the way, in case you haven't noticed I've never asked for a theurg nerf so that's all moot either way.

I'm not denying that others got the bonuses but the increased power pool = a hell of a lot more pets (+ therefore interupts) and the bolt range petting just means they can sit that little further back.

Only major differance is that earth spec now has an nuke and aoe nuke, but no RvR theurgists spec it anyway because they all want stun or caster pets, so even thats a mute point. And of cause that is Albions PBT, which means few groups ever have even 10 second pbt, let alone higher.

Sorry I really don't see any justification for the whine. Very little has changed and even less that can't be solved by good play.

Two major specs for grouped theurgs are high earth (for interupts) and 41 ice for snares and roots and sub spec earth for the pet. Earthers can send their pets out and use their AoE to take out enemy pets.

Stun pets (wind?) are generally used by solo's or.... well in some groups that run the setup they're there for dps (spirit debuff from cabbie?) but then they're not there for the interupts really.

Double spec is a pita - you do get plate mind. And I agree with you that all realms need to keep some differences. But what hib does need is a decent ranged interupt class. Doesn't need to be bolt ranged (sorcs aoe mezz and theurgs), doesn't need to be BD pets but they do need something.

Before someone says vamps then I'd say - great interupter in melee range but then so are other classes in other realms (valks, mincers etc).

 

[Mabs]

the whine is actually about the lack of interrupts on Hib versus the other realms.

yes cos the insta 5sec reuse amnesia is so prevelant on the other realms

having read the ENTIRE thread (yes i actually am that bored), i can only say this

yes there may be a problem , and yes people are aware of it, but going

"WAA WAA ITS NOT FAIR, NERF THE OTHER 2 REALMS BUT NOT ME COS IM SO BADLY DONE TO " really isnt going to work, especially when all 3 sides are doing it
end result ? -> implication that infact its WAD

 

[Mabs]

oh forgot to add;

someone on VN had a good suggestion (no, really, trust me on this), it went like this :

the new healing class PVE lifedrainprocdd thing they get self buff, which is PVE only, should work on realm pets aswell

 

[Genedril]

yes cos the insta 5sec reuse amnesia is so prevelant on the other realms

having read the ENTIRE thread (yes i actually am that bored), i can only say this

yes there may be a problem , and yes people are aware of it, but going

"WAA WAA ITS NOT FAIR, NERF THE OTHER 2 REALMS BUT NOT ME COS IM SO BADLY DONE TO " really isnt going to work, especially when all 3 sides are doing it
end result ? -> implication that infact its WAD

So they can interupt (if it resists) every 5 seconds? That is like pet interupts from Alb and Mid how?

 

[Tuthmes]

Amnesia doesnt interrupt and going; "WAA WAA ITS NOT FAIR" works.

 

[aika]

A good idea is to run with 2 bards

 

[CorNokZ]

2 druids and 6 bards.. Assist train with DDs and druids shearing

This setup cannot go wrong

 

[Genedril]

2 NATURE druids and 6 bards.. Assist train with DDs and druids petting the bitches that wont die.

This setup cannot go wrong

Edited for correctness.

 

[Genedril]

Amnesia doesnt interrupt and going; "WAA WAA ITS NOT FAIR" works.

It does interrupt - if the bard crosses their fingers and sings 'I should be so lucky' while mashing their head against their desk because they've got a shed load of pets on them and no one has cleared them off again.

 

[CorNokZ]

Edited for correctness.

I thought that was kinda implied..

 

[Genedril]

I thought that was kinda implied..

True - nicotine gum makes me lose the obvious and have to state it in bold though .

 

[Kagato]

Double spec is a pita - you do get plate mind. And I agree with you that all realms need to keep some differences. But what hib does need is a decent ranged interupt class. Doesn't need to be bolt ranged (sorcs aoe mezz and theurgs), doesn't need to be BD pets but they do need something.

Problem is 'plate' gets used as an excuse for all albions melee weaknesses and has since day 1.
We have to suffer double-spec because we get plate
We can't Evade because we get plate
Even though plate wearing npc's can.

Like it's really that much of a benefit anymore, back in the early old frontiers days yes I agree, but the game has advanced on so much more since then that the meagre extra absorb differance between plate and chain is insignificant compared to all the other major factors you need to worry about in RvR.
And that's before you even start bringing timers into the equation.

I really don't think base chance to Evade + plate is going to untip the balance in RvR compared to mid/hib heavy tanks being able to fully spec both 2H, 1Hand AND shield and have high parry still.

And I don't think removing double-spec would either, however I don't actually want them to remove double spec, I probably still wouldn't bother with a shield if they did, I'd just rather they actually gave double spec some real advantage for all the extra wasted spec points, if it actually reduced damage variance tighter for example rather then just up to base level.

However that's getting off topic, and not aimed directly at your reply, more a moan in general seeing as it got brought up!

 

[Maeloch]

Problem is 'plate' gets used as an excuse for all albions melee weaknesses and has since day 1.
We have to suffer double-spec because we get plate
We can't Evade because we get plate
Even though plate wearing npc's can...

Well you can't expect it all on a plate :lol:

 

[Genedril]

Kag - I only brought up plate as part of the double spec thing you raised (which I agree is a bit wrong) but then mids their free 2-hand and we both agree that the realms need the differences as it keeps it interesting.
Doesn't plate give higher AF too? I could be wrong here as I've never had a plate wearer. TBH the more abilites that have been 'shared' across the realms the less there is that little bit of interest but that's a different discussion.

Well you can't expect it all on a plate :lol:

That's so bad it's quite good...

 

[Kagato]

Well you can't expect it all on a plate :lol:

I'm....speachlesss, that is just so so bad you should be ashamed lol !

 

[Tuthmes]

A good idea is to run with 2 bards

I dont like it, a ment can dish out dps if needed.

 

[Puppet]

Problem is 'plate' gets used as an excuse for all albions melee weaknesses and has since day 1.
We have to suffer double-spec because we get plate
We can't Evade because we get plate
Even though plate wearing npc's can.

Like it's really that much of a benefit anymore, back in the early old frontiers days yes I agree, but the game has advanced on so much more since then that the meagre extra absorb differance between plate and chain is insignificant compared to all the other major factors you need to worry about in RvR.
And that's before you even start bringing timers into the equation.

I really don't think base chance to Evade + plate is going to untip the balance in RvR compared to mid/hib heavy tanks being able to fully spec both 2H, 1Hand AND shield and have high parry still.

And I don't think removing double-spec would either, however I don't actually want them to remove double spec, I probably still wouldn't bother with a shield if they did, I'd just rather they actually gave double spec some real advantage for all the extra wasted spec points, if it actually reduced damage variance tighter for example rather then just up to base level.

Only warriors can spec full 1H, 2H, Shield and have good Parry. Heroes (and Champs) also have to spec for both lines if they wanna dish out damage with both weapons. Saying Plate isn't an advantage is not really fair either, it adds 5% absorb and a considerable amount of AF which helps reduce damage by quite a bit *all the time* . Most popular heavy-tank specs resolve around 50 2H, 42 Shield and atleast some in 1H. I don't think Doublespeccing is that huge downside anymore since most higher-RR heavytanks will go roughly 50 modified 1H anyhow to be able to do something in 1H mode.

I think doublespeccing is much more of an issue for paladins. If you want to have doublespeccing removed (which I doubt will happen in current game-phase) it is much better to argue for it from the pally-PoV then from the Arms-PoV (where it barely makes any difference except if you wanna go full 2H full parry which is hardly a favourable spec for any group-RvR).

 

[Sharkith]

I'm....speachlesss, that is just so so bad you should be ashamed lol !

You should read guild chat.....

 

[Seanpaul]

Forest ambusher for animists for a start.

Buff to enchantments line for chanters giving some sort of spam.

Maybe an elemental damage wisp system, starts with castable buff to determine their damage type (heat/cold etc) and effect (AoE/Single target snare/multiple strike) then they fire off wisps like animist bombers which chase the target until the effect is applied. (Caster pet casts them/Melee pets proc them maybe making the duel wielding underhill friend useful as they could potentially proc loads.)

Possibly even having a necro mode spell to make the enchanter invulnerable until the pet is killed, but on a timer to make up for the crippling of the casters effectiveness itself.

 

[Kagato]

Only warriors can spec full 1H, 2H, Shield and have good Parry. Heroes (and Champs) also have to spec for both lines if they wanna dish out damage with both weapons. Saying Plate isn't an advantage is not really fair either, it adds 5% absorb and a considerable amount of AF which helps reduce damage by quite a bit *all the time* . Most popular heavy-tank specs resolve around 50 2H, 42 Shield and atleast some in 1H. I don't think Doublespeccing is that huge downside anymore since most higher-RR heavytanks will go roughly 50 modified 1H anyhow to be able to do something in 1H mode.

I think doublespeccing is much more of an issue for paladins. If you want to have doublespeccing removed (which I doubt will happen in current game-phase) it is much better to argue for it from the pally-PoV then from the Arms-PoV (where it barely makes any difference except if you wanna go full 2H full parry which is hardly a favourable spec for any group-RvR).

I agree, that Warriors win most of all out of the favourable spec systems amongst the heavy tanks.

And I also agree that it's much more an issue for paladins.

However as I mentioned before, whilst it would be better then no change at all I'm not that bothered about having double spec totally removed, I just think it should provide some benefit for the huge waste of points that it is, rather then merely bring us up to the same standards as those who don't need to double spec.

Of cause if I was low RR then I may well be argueing more for it to be totally removed, it does hinder the newbies much more.

 

[Maeloch]

You should read guild chat.....

How many heretics does it take to change a lightbulb? None, they live in eternal darkness. If I told that joke to a mid I'd have to translate it - they only speak Norse Code. I once went to DC and the keep lord was a water beetle - it was Mob Rule, etc etc. :lol::worthy:

 

[Sharkith]

oh noes - I have to put up with it out of game too now.....

 

[Kagato]

thank god im an Alb

Think i'd of tried alot harder to kill him back in the excalibur NF glory days if I knew his jokes where that bad!

 

[Puppet]

Of cause if I was low RR then I may well be argueing more for it to be totally removed, it does hinder the newbies much more.

It mostly hinders newbies who want to spec like you and still have respectable parry. While I do see your point the spec is inferiour for almost all aspects of the game and how it is played on Ywain.

For a 'newbie' a RR3-spec of 50 2H/Pole, 42 Shield, 37 1H-Weapon and 13 Parry will do fine, because Slam is worth having, especially if you are going to be grouping, zerg-surfing etc etc.

I understand that for your way of speccing it cuts out on Parry-points by a considerable margin, but that's not the norm for most players. Even so, you hit the parry-cap (50%) with your RR while having Snapshot, so for your case it don't matter much either.

In the end I do think it should be removed simply for the sake of Paladins and Arms in no way being overpowered in the game currently.

And if you think about it, it's just one of those things which shows how imbalanced Midgard is. Adding all distinct advantages Midgard has in aspects all over the game makes you wonder sometimes

 

[Genedril]

oh noes - I have to put up with it out of game too now.....

I've been missing those jokes. Maybe I should send more time on Hib.

 

[Sharkith]

I've been missing those jokes. Maybe I should send more time on Hib.

sick puppy!