Idea to lower effect of Pets in RvR

[Gahn]

In last years pets went from a form of annoyance to one of the most important keys to shut down enemy Healers.
Without having to penalize the pet classes, i was wondering if it shouldn't be a good idea to attach to Taunt a PvP effect.
Something in the line of forcing all pets in Radius to stop the performing action for 2-3 seconds might be a good start imo.
Thoughts?

 

[old.Eyez]

things like that wont happen!

The game have been like this with pets since the launch, some ppl are just so bad that they dont take the pets of the healers!

But it is funny when playing a theurg, to screw a fg when pets on everthing

But the pets aint the problems it is the ppl in the grp there is the problem if u dont get the pets off the healrs

So no need of a change, and i dont think EA will make such a big change anyway, the game is dieing atm!

 

[Septina]

things like that wont happen!

The game have been like this with pets since the launch, some ppl are just so bad that they dont take the pets of the healers!

But it is funny when playing a theurg, to screw a fg when pets on everthing

But the pets aint the problems it is the ppl in the grp there is the problem if u dont get the pets off the healrs

So no need of a change, and i dont think EA will make such a big change anyway, the game is dieing atm!

Damn, and i just ran out of cluepons.

 

[Tuthmes]

Should have rolled mid or alb then Gahn.

Anyways the warlord ability Cowering Bellow does exactly what you proposed. So get a ment and hero with warlord in your group.

 

[Maeloch]

Should have rolled mid or alb then Gahn.

Anyways the warlord ability Cowering Bellow does exactly what you proposed. So get a ment and hero with warlord in your group.

It doesn't work on BD pets, or caster pets in general, not quite figured it out (or it roots them but they still cast). It's bugged somehow anyhow. Get bothering your TL on that Gahn, I'm working on the ment one!

 

[Gahn]

Should have rolled mid or alb then Gahn.

Anyways the warlord ability Cowering Bellow does exactly what you proposed. So get a ment and hero with warlord in your group.

Cb got a too long timer, it gets resisted quite alot and in fact doesn't work on Bd pets, it's only reliable on the 1st wave of Theurg Pets and on ML10 Pets (actually that's hilarious seeing the reactions), effectively turning it in an almost useless ability.

things like that wont happen!

The game have been like this with pets since the launch, some ppl are just so bad that they dont take the pets of the healers!

But it is funny when playing a theurg, to screw a fg when pets on everthing

But the pets aint the problems it is the ppl in the grp there is the problem if u dont get the pets off the healrs

So no need of a change, and i dont think EA will make such a big change anyway, the game is dieing atm!

don't even start to try and shit me about clearing 2x theurg pets + Ml10 Cabbie and Petstrel one with Tanks and or a single Aoe caster cause it's a ridicolous argument Eyez ...

 

[Tuthmes]

Pretty sure I rawked Brite with it on my hero, but then again that whas a couple of years ago :|

Not sure about the range, or if it can be resisted, or if it's broken like you said. The bd pets need a big phat nerf anyways.

 

[Tuthmes]

Yeah Gahn playing hib means you will be always 1 or 2 steps behind, because you need to take care of the pets first

Also tell the bard and ment to use confuse btw.

 

[Kagato]

I haven't noticed any problems with Cowering Bellow personally, it does get resisted sometimes but it will interrupt spellcasting pets as they will stop their actions, move the set distance away from the warlord then begin casting again.

Of cause it does have the reuse timer and only works once, but it is only a low ML ability after all!

But if people want to make it stronger I wont complain :england:

 

[Tuthmes]

I believe certain cabba and necro pets are un cc'able (or rr5). Not sure if the bd pets have something similar (I suppose their rr5 makes it so).

 

[Maeloch]

Pretty sure I rawked Brite with it on my hero, but then again that whas a couple of years ago :|

Not sure about the range, or if it can be resisted, or if it's broken like you said. The bd pets need a big phat nerf anyways.

It did work fine at one point, but somewhere along the line, either with the last BD patch or the last CB patch it stopped working properly on them.

 

[Lightfighter]

Cb got a too long timer, it gets resisted quite alot and in fact doesn't work on Bd pets, it's only reliable on the 1st wave of Theurg Pets and on ML10 Pets (actually that's hilarious seeing the reactions), effectively turning it in an almost useless ability.

Would be a bit overpowered if a press of a button could acctually kill the controlled mainpets, cb is a powerful ability in that it makes the theurg/animist sad once he/she finally got some pets out after being rupted 90% of the fight like they should be. And giving some breathing space vs the other pets. If your group leaves the theurg free to do his work you'll have a couple of pets to clear yes, but atleast you don't have half your group dead which would be the case in the same amount of time it took to get some pets out if they replaced the theurg with a high rr wizard xD.

don't even start to try and shit me about clearing 2x theurg pets + Ml10 Cabbie and Petstrel one with Tanks and or a single Aoe caster cause it's a ridicolous argument Eyez ...

As far as petclears are concerned, theurg pets get 1-shotted by casters and most tanks, animist pets takes a few hits but takes longer to cast too so oh well, all other pets can be safely ignored after they've been rooted, with the exceptions being caster pets (bds, chanters, ruby sims) which need to be mezzed and then prevented from being demezzed, or rooted and then kited out of castrange, and cabby rr5 (well, it's a rr5 ability, make it have some use atleast).

If you've left a petspam class to have a field-day with your support then you'll be at a disadvantage, much like if you would've left a dps caster instead, or anything else which in your self interest should be kept rupted.

BD pets are silly tho, nerf em'!!!

 

[Sharkith]

things like that wont happen!

The game have been like this with pets since the launch, some ppl are just so bad that they dont take the pets of the healers!

But it is funny when playing a theurg, to screw a fg when pets on everthing

But the pets aint the problems it is the ppl in the grp there is the problem if u dont get the pets off the healrs

So no need of a change, and i dont think EA will make such a big change anyway, the game is dieing atm!

Theurgs should have a 5 pet cap - just like animists.

 

[Tuthmes]

Animist pets are static (ie. the dont move) where's theurg pets keep following you. Anyways a good group (and player) knows that their theurg will be the main target and will do something about it. Ohhn and I don't think you can root theurg pets either

Or you could just moc and petspam. Either way if you spam pets, somebody has to clear them, which means atleast one player isnt attacking your group.

Hib groups should start to run eld, ment, chanter, chanter again.

 

[Sharkith]

Animist pets are static (ie. the dont move) where's theurg pets keep following you. Anyways a good group (and player) knows that their theurg will be the main target and will do something about it. Ohhn and I don't think you can root theurg pets either

Or you could just moc and petspam. Either way if you spam pets, somebody has to clear them, which means atleast one player isnt attacking your group.

Hib groups should start to run eld, ment, chanter, chanter again.

You can kill the Theurg but most lame assed Albs bring a second as insurance and like to spam 10 - 20 as fast as they can. The best way to deal with those pets is get them into Melee as Genedril always said.

Pets are a really good example of where Hibernia were nerfed heavily (with animists having a hard cap) and the other realms handed interrupts on a plate. This is only in FG RvR though. Hib does well enough on a macro scale and some classes are certainly pretty oped. So to be honest it swings in roundabouts.

I do think pets can be dealt with but your average Hib FG really needs to know what it is doing - it takes a really good team to be able to control the pet spam from Mid and Alb. As you well know.

 

[Genedril]

You can kill the Theurg but most lame assed Albs bring a second as insurance and like to spam 10 - 20 as fast as they can. The best way to deal with those pets is get them into Melee as Genedril always said.

Only the Ice pets if you're a tank. After all you can't charge if you're snared.

Pets are a really good example of where Hibernia were nerfed heavily (with animists having a hard cap) and the other realms handed interrupts on a plate. This is only in FG RvR though. Hib does well enough on a macro scale and some classes are certainly pretty oped. So to be honest it swings in roundabouts.

Hib never had a decent FG pet class. They do have some tasty classes mind but the BD and the theurg provide an interupt level that are a tad nasty.

I do think pets can be dealt with but your average Hib FG really needs to know what it is doing - it takes a really good team to be able to control the pet spam from Mid and Alb. As you well know.

Hibs need a dedicated pet clearer in the group, though other realms generally do too. The difference being that without the pet rupts they never really get on top of it.

 

[Genedril]

Thinking about it what Hib needs is a decent pet class a'la BD or Theurg.

Ments are fine these days but need a debuffer to shine but the chanter and void eld are pretty sub-par debuffers.

Chanters are ok as debuffers but nowhere near the league of cabbies / body sorcs and their pets aren't nearly as good as bd's and theurgs.

Druids - well you're not going to buff the druids as they're fine and really the pet is just a bonus (unless you're runnning some weird 3 druid setup with 1 sub buff, 1 sub nat and 1 nature).

Animist pet's aren't really all that in any form of RvR that moves between more than 2 fixed points (though tanglers in the backfield aren't to be sneezed at).

Fixing it means making changes to either the Ment or the chanter imho. Ment is probably not going to happen as they've got a fair bit of love and can use their pets a'la mincers. So that leaves the chanter (which could use some love either way). Multi cast pets a'la theurg would probably be stupid so maybe some sort of pet army a'la the bd? Problem is that Mythic would probably add it to the enchantments line so then you'd not be able to debuff nuke - can't have it all though.

 

[BloodOmen]

Damn, and i just ran out of cluepons.

Check the bloodomen.com online store I has loads! special discount for swe's!

 

[GReaper]

Thinking about it what Hib needs is a decent pet class a'la BD or Theurg.

Hell no. Don't solve the problem by creating more problems. They could do with another look at pets in general, they've been buffed up over the years and very rarely nerfed.

They increased the Theurgist pet range from 1500 to 1875 (was actually 2000 until 1.90), then ToA came along a few months later and increased that to above 2000 thanks to 10% range from items. All this on a 3.0 second cast. It's a bit excessive.

The Minstrel pet hasn't really been adjusted for ages, but I honestly can't imagine that whoever added the pulsing charm to the game many years ago was expecting this ability to be used in RvR with orange con mobs fully buffed being insanely difficult to kill. Yet again - it's a bit excessive.

I wouldn't want to see major nerfs, but pets in general could do with tweaking down a bit so that they're a useful tool to the player and not what seems to be the entire strategy for groups.

 

[Genedril]

I'd rather see things balanced by tweaking upwards classes that need it rather than nerfing other classes into the ground.

The chanter could use some help tbh and giving it some sort of decent pet would work for that. Theurgs aren't all powerful but BD's are another matter. A combination of their instas and the ability to let their pets cause havoc with minimal control needed is a pita when facing them. Maybe my idea of BD style pets for a chanter isn't going to work but I'm sure you could give the chanter something more useful to work with. Putting it in the enchantment line would mean less debuff + nuke + op pet whine.

Mincers get the same charm as Menta's so that's balanced really from a hib PoV.

Suppose the really obvious answer is to give Ments back STT as their RR5. Would help Hib groups out against pets no end .

 

[aika]

And while you're there, give Forest Ambusher back to animists

 

[GReaper]

I'd rather see things balanced by tweaking upwards classes that need it rather than nerfing other classes into the ground.

The problem is that pets screw over the casters without pets.

If they don't want to reduce the pet problem with nerfing then they certainly need to add more abilities to deal with them. This goes for all realms.

 

[Kagato]

I think the Theurgist whine is a little excessive. Firstly the pet range has been nerfed already, and sorry the +range item arguement just doesn't cut it as that is applicable to all spellcasters, including the ones who should be dealing with the pet caster (hello Nearsight!).

Secondly the pets only have a 30 second to 1 minute lifespan depending on the spec of the theurg, unlike the Anamist shrooms, so limiting how many can be cast would be extremely unjustified.

And finally they are 1 shot killed, so a single pbaoe from any applicable class will wipe out an entire theurg pet wave.

It's up to your group to gather them together and wipe them out, don't blame the class for your bad playing, the tools are there to deal with the tactic.

And I find it remarkable to see the whine coming from hib groups who can already get all key group abilities with only 5 classes leaving 3 open dps slots in a group.

As someone else said, balance through improving poor classes, not nerfing classes who are simply fulfilling their roles.

 

[Himse]

Not being funny but i didn't think animist we're that op in RvR anyway, by the time they've set all the pets up and that, but theurgs are silly!

tbh animists need that cap removed! its just pve i suppose they were op

 

[Dvaerg]

Not being funny but i didn't think animist we're that op in RvR anyway, by the time they've set all the pets up and that, but theurgs are silly!

tbh animists need that cap removed! its just pve i suppose they were op

Mids and Albs had a difficult time back in the days taking keeps and cross the mile gates without getting totally owned by shrooms
It was a lil op and now with Greater Power Myth Animists can just keep on going incase they brought it back.

But i agree Theurg is fucking lame pet spammer

 

[Genedril]

The problem is that pets screw over the casters without pets.

If they don't want to reduce the pet problem with nerfing then they certainly need to add more abilities to deal with them. This goes for all realms.

And bolt range mezz screws those w/o it, stun screws those w/o it, 2 handed pa screws over those w/o it. Not really an applicable argument. It's all about realm (or group) balance. Hibs suffer most from poor pet classes for interrupt duty meaning that you need to make someone deal with pets and you never get to return the favour.

I still think that BD's are a far more pita pet class than theurgs tbh as their pets and the caster themselves are much harder to stop.

Shrooms aren't the answer as has been pointed out as they're static and they take forever to set up so are pointless in open field. Thinking about it again if Ments got back STT then bards should get Selective Blindness. Fixes hib pet problem and bard issues. Though chanter is still sub par debuffer par excellence.

 

[Gahn]

I think the Theurgist whine is a little excessive. Firstly the pet range has been nerfed already, and sorry the +range item arguement just doesn't cut it as that is applicable to all spellcasters, including the ones who should be dealing with the pet caster (hello Nearsight!).

Secondly the pets only have a 30 second to 1 minute lifespan depending on the spec of the theurg, unlike the Anamist shrooms, so limiting how many can be cast would be extremely unjustified.

And finally they are 1 shot killed, so a single pbaoe from any applicable class will wipe out an entire theurg pet wave.

It's up to your group to gather them together and wipe them out, don't blame the class for your bad playing, the tools are there to deal with the tactic.

And I find it remarkable to see the whine coming from hib groups who can already get all key group abilities with only 5 classes leaving 3 open dps slots in a group.

As someone else said, balance through improving poor classes, not nerfing classes who are simply fulfilling their roles.

Honestly i find this kind of defence a littly funny, a decent theurg can shut down Bard and 1x Druid np, while you "gather up" and clean the 1st wave you can quite have 2x of em already on the way or on the tail of other 2 support classes on the other side of battlefield or anyway difficult to reach, and the Ns comment i will just lol at that tbh m8

There are albs fg of almost only pet users kiting the shit outta of ya, so yeh if you keep up to rupt the Theurg (provided they run with 1 only) you end up overextending and creamed.

Not as easy as you should think.

 

[Tuthmes]

Fotm - theurg x2, sorc, cabby, tic, minstrel, 2x clerics. With enough pets to make a second and third group.

Or bd, bd/sm, sm, rm. Though mids usually run with a bit more melee, but they got an unkillable, instant spamming, moc1 shear bitch. With a bd that's about a group just alone.

I know its the same old whine in old bottles, but the recipe hasnt changed over the years. It's only gotten more of the same while people learned how to exploid it better.

Running a tank group on Ywain is about as fun as stabbing your balls with a rusty screwdriver. Besides the BM is shite compaired to its counterparts. But no stoi vs caster groups is the same screwdriver again, this time inserted anal.

 

[Ctuchik]

In last years pets went from a form of annoyance to one of the most important keys to shut down enemy Healers.
Without having to penalize the pet classes, i was wondering if it shouldn't be a good idea to attach to Taunt a PvP effect.
Something in the line of forcing all pets in Radius to stop the performing action for 2-3 seconds might be a good start imo.
Thoughts?

so how will that work with melee pets then? i can see the logic versus caster and healer type pets but not melee pets.

but sure, i can take melee pets being interrupted if pet casters are given a AE "detaunt" type spell that interrupts PC melee classes for the same amount of time aswell..

 

[Genedril]

They're both heavy extend groups though Tuth. Running light ment *2, light eld, chanter, bard, druid *2, vw while not as pet heavy would counter them.

Though in all likely hood both groups would engage and extend away from each other forever.