Idea - A good one!

old.Whoodoo

Can't get enough of FH
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Can someone list the pro's and cons of NF compared to OF....

Pros
Insta transport to major keeps or boats to foreign realms
Underwater fun
Insta knowldge of battle locations
In game map system
Improved seige system
Better and more varied terrain
Customisable keeps
XP bonus is insane
Roaming FG fights more possible
Less camped areas (unlike old MMG Emain)
No waiting to teleport back to the action

Cons
Stupid ladders
Stupid "too steep to climb" hills
Stupid ladders
Albs n Hibs got better exping spots (you have, honest :p)
Stupid ladders

Its not NF people hate, its the change. Now they have to learn the terrain all over again, theres no crappy bottleneck to camp like old Emain, insta stealth gank squads cant just hang about in one spot, they have to adapt all the time. In other words, ppl grew too lazy in their old ways.

Ill stick to things just how they are, so far I havnt seen any valid reason here to adopt this "old school" server in favour of either a 3rd English or Coop server. As for the idea of a perma-gorre, thats gotta rate up there with chocolate teapots, jelly fireguards and Camlann.
 

Fangorn

Fledgling Freddie
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8
old.Whoodoo said:
Can someone list the pro's and cons of NF compared to OF....

Pros
Insta transport to major keeps or boats to foreign realms
Underwater fun
Insta knowldge of battle locations
In game map system
Improved seige system
Better and more varied terrain
Customisable keeps
XP bonus is insane
Roaming FG fights more possible
Less camped areas (unlike old MMG Emain)
No waiting to teleport back to the action

Cons
Stupid ladders
Stupid "too steep to climb" hills
Stupid ladders
Albs n Hibs got better exping spots (you have, honest :p)
Stupid ladders

Its not NF people hate, its the change. Now they have to learn the terrain all over again, theres no crappy bottleneck to camp like old Emain, insta stealth gank squads cant just hang about in one spot, they have to adapt all the time. In other words, ppl grew too lazy in their old ways.

Ill stick to things just how they are, so far I havnt seen any valid reason here to adopt this "old school" server in favour of either a 3rd English or Coop server. As for the idea of a perma-gorre, thats gotta rate up there with chocolate teapots, jelly fireguards and Camlann.

I think the feeling of people who want a classic server though is that since the last too expansions, there's more boring PvE (and yes, I think all PvE is boring :p), and more zerging/keeping taking at the expence of small group encounters, allthough i don't feel that qualified to comment on NF as I haven't played it much, but I've never enjoyed keep taking massivly in the past.
 

Oldbone|Ramble

One of Freddy's beloved
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Gamah said:
Erm yes I have...but making the game insta death match is not the way to go.
How about letting us choose, regular server or a Gorre type server, the game would still develop.
 

Helme

FH is my second home
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Oldbone|Ramble said:
How about letting us choose, regular server or a Gorre type server, the game would still develop.
The game would get dull with a Gorre type server, I know atleast I would stop after some time, and so would most of the people I know. This is an RPG afterall, and the more time you spend with your charcter and the more time you use to equipt it and level it, the more its worth to you then something that took 5 mins..

Then its ofcourse those people who enjoy getting everything handed to them on a silver platter but that is another story.

(this is my point of view by the way, so no flaming)
 

Danamyr

Fledgling Freddie
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Old.Ilum said:
If people are bored of current DaoC they would be even more bored by old DaoC.
I don't think that's true. It was far easier to reach the end game under OF. Reach Lvl 50, farm a few barcers and get your SC suit made and go RVR. Now you need MLs and your ToA artifacts just to compete. Even then you have to pray you'll get a group spot otherwise you'll get stealth zerged, and even if you do get a group you'll get CC'd stoopid and then nuked to death in 0.01 of a second by MA casters :puke:

I know which version of the game I'd prefer.
 

Flimgoblin

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Danamyr said:
I don't think that's true. It was far easier to reach the end game under OF. Reach Lvl 50, farm a few barcers and get your SC suit made and go RVR. Now you need MLs and your ToA artifacts just to compete. Even then you have to pray you'll get a group spot otherwise you'll get stealth zerged, and even if you do get a group you'll get CC'd stoopid and then nuked to death in 0.01 of a second by MA casters :puke:

I know which version of the game I'd prefer.
in OF I got out the TK, got CC'd stoopid and nuked to death in 0.01 of a second by MA casters

Nowadays it tends to be I get out of Beno, get CC'd stoopid and nuked to death in 0.01 of a second by MA casters but at least I have the option of going to ToA and fighting some big monsters for some shiny toys when I don't fancy that.

I know which version of the game I prefer ;)
 

old.Whoodoo

Can't get enough of FH
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Flimgoblin said:
in OF I got out the TK, got CC'd stoopid and nuked to death in 0.01 of a second by MA casters

Nowadays it tends to be I get out of Beno, get CC'd stoopid and nuked to death in 0.01 of a second by MA casters but at least I have the option of going to ToA and fighting some big monsters for some shiny toys when I don't fancy that.

I know which version of the game I prefer ;)
:clap: Well said!!

The same people here saying GIFV OLD are also the ones who cry when a patch is delayed for any reason. Irony?

My hunter is fully TOA'd, SC'd to the hilt, capped to buggery, MLd to hell and back, and still gets CC'd and nuked in 0.01 seconds, much the same as anyone else.

Old frontiers, you had to rely on shouts in /gu or /as for action, grab a hastner and run for 10 minutes to get to it, die, release, repeat. Now, port to keep XXX, step outside, gank someone, die release repeat, the only difference is the action is that much more accessable.

Oldbone said:
How about letting us choose, regular server or a Gorre type server, the game would still develop.
LOL, as what, an FPS:twak: ? Whats to develope if everyone has insta everything, nothing, thats death! What can you possibly add, might as well stick in "global thermonuclear missile" realm ability castable every 10 seconds and have done with it. Any MMORPG game is based upon getting rewards for completing certain criteria, whether it XP, RPs or crafting. Giving everyone all the possible things a toon can have is plain stupid. Want it that much, play CS sinlge player.

Name me ONE other MMORPG that offers a Gorre type scenario.
 

Flimgoblin

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I think people do have a point with there being nowhere like the tks for screaming "lfg", though I've found if you turn up at a keep take/defence and just start randomly inviting people you end up with a pickup group ala OF ;)

maybe it's just because I'm a cleric people actually accept ;) (though they must know by now that I'm a smit0r!)
 

Oldbone|Ramble

One of Freddy's beloved
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Messages
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old.Whoodoo said:
Name me ONE other MMORPG that offers a Gorre type scenario.
What I meant was that the pve is time demanding now, and on low population servers like Prydwen its more or less impossible to do ML raids, find a crafter, find a xp group and so on.

People are leaving daoc as we speak, pve becomes harder every second on low population servers, only solution these ppl have is moving into a bigger server or quit.

Very small group of people have gone to a bigger server but most have left the server couse of pve and not enuff rvr.

So my solution was something that all those ppl can enjoy, Gorre type server, see it as an BG arena that arent time demanding as normal servers.
 

Danamyr

Fledgling Freddie
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I just want to make myself clear, I am not crying for the return of the OF - so don't mistake my point. I was simply stating that it is a lot harder now to get to a stage where you can compete with the 1337 kiddies then it used to be.

Surely you must all see that?

The things that piss me off about the game now are the things that stop me being at the same level as the 1337 players, and this is a function of NF - I never had the problem under OF:

1. I have not got the time or ability to change my real-life work and personal commitments to enable me to attend MLs. I am often at work until 7 PM during the week, and on a personal level girlfriends do not understand that you've been waiting 2 months for an ML4 raid for example ;)

2. Artifacts and the best jewelry is often a nightmare to obtain. Granted, some of the raids may be easy to compete, but you have to wait for them to spawn, then get a group together praying that no-one else pulls the mob first and then lotto for the artifact...with up to 2FG of players who all want it as well. So what options do I have? Well, all I can do is either wait 6 months or more in the hope I'll get the items I want or use crappy quest items instead, so at least that way I might eventually get to obtain everything for a template.

3. So if I can't obtain an artifact or item for free by doing the encounter, then I can just buy it...right? Well no, actually. The prices my Realm mates ask for things honestly makes me sick. The game economy is a joke. I accept that if you are unemployed and/or have no relationship with anyone you may well be able to farm 6 million plat per day, but I cannot and do not appreciate having to pay 20 Plat for a ring for example...I do not want anyone to try and justify these prices because I just do not see how you can. A few people with too much time and too much in game cash have shafted the economy for everyone.

So in conclusion, ToA has made it much, much more difficult for me to finally sit back and think "Yes, that character's complete". It's going to take me months and months to get the rest of the artifacts I need and get everything levelled. That is a grind and it irritates me intensely. In fact, if I wasn't so stubborn I would have quit months ago.

ToA is not fun for me, it's a painful and frustrating grind...hardly what Mythic envisaged when they produced the expansion...
 

Flimgoblin

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Danamyr said:
ToA has made it much, much more difficult for me to finally sit back and think "Yes, that character's complete".
I believe that was the entire point of ToA ;) to give you some way to continue to improve your character other than RvR.

Used to be: ding 50, wtf do I do now?
Hrm RvR, splat splat splat, ok enough RvR for to day what do I do now?
OK alt time (or telly time)

And is it just me that sees a big difference between "being able to compete" and "have all the same abilities as"? sure the odd ML is nice, FoP is a godsend (not that you need it personally, just stand near one that someone else summoned), turning into a shark from my alvarus leggings is cool (doesn't do anything for me other than some waterbreathing I can get from a pot) but someone in a SI template at RR6 will still be more powerful than a ToAed out MLed out RR1.

In my opinion RvR performance is affected most by:

Optimised group
Class + spec
Presence of buffbot
Realm rank
MLs/Artifacts (depends on what MLs are available whether artis will be more important)
other items

in that order.

Even if you get all the MLs and Artis to "compete" with the gank groups they're all RR11 and have a massive advantage anyway. Personally I find gaining RRs far more time consuming than gaining MLs or artifact levels...
 

Danamyr

Fledgling Freddie
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Flimgoblin said:
Personally I find gaining RRs far more time consuming than gaining MLs or artifact levels...
Gaining RRs is far easier then getting MLs and artifacts and jewelry, at least IMHO.

I don't know, perhaps I am looking at this wrong. I know I can be impatient, but TBH I want my characters to be 'just so' before going RVR properly. I'm not interested in PVE beyond getting the stuff I need. Once they are fully equipped and ready I can lay back and relax and enjoy RVR knowing I've made them the best they can be. I know I'll still get killed regularly, because other players are so much better then me, but I've done everything I can to give them a decent chance.

...but someone in a SI template at RR6 will still be more powerful than a ToAed out MLed out RR1.
Please don't take offence Glam, but you're delusional if you honestly believe this. A full ToA RR1 character will spank an SI plain SC RR6 character (of identical class and spec obviously) any day of the week. For a start they'll generally have much higher stats (with +caps) and the procs on the weapons alone (Malice for example) = the insta pwn.
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
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Danamyr said:
Gaining RRs is far easier then getting MLs and artifacts and jewelry, at least IMHO.
I'd agree with you below about RR3 :) Unless yer in an uber gank group farming the zerg.
My RP bar crawls along.


I don't know, perhaps I am looking at this wrong. I know I can be impatient, but TBH I want my characters to be 'just so' before going RVR properly. I'm not interested in PVE beyond getting the stuff I need. Once they are fully equipped and ready I can lay back and relax and enjoy RVR knowing I've made them the best they can be. I know I'll still get killed regularly, because other players are so much better then me, but I've done everything I can to give them a decent chance.
Hmm, I'm less picky ;) I've got bits and pieces I throw on my chars, have been RvRing with glamis in un-levelled artifacts, placeholder bits of kit etc. He's nearly getting towards finished on my first "easyish to get template" but I'm gonna make a new one once he's finished levelling it all. I like progressing my chars ;) that's easier to do with getting different kit than getting more RPs.

Best thing about ToA though is that there is no "capped templates" anymore... nothing caps _everything_ so you can keep changing your template around to be better at something.



Please don't take offence Glam, but you're delusional if you honestly believe this. A full ToA RR1 character will spank an SI plain SC RR6 character (of identical class and spec obviously) any day of the week. For a start they'll generally have much higher stats (with +caps) and the procs on the weapons alone (Malice for example) = the insta pwn.
Heh no offence but I'd beg to differ.

baseline: RR1 in SC suit (old stat caps)

RR1 ToAed wizard will have 200 more hp from stat caps, 10% faster casting speed, 10% damage, 26 more dex, 26 more intelligence, 26 more con worth of stats.

RR6 SC'ed wizard will have e.g. MOC3, Purge2, RP1 and obliterate him ;)

if instead you use the RAs to equalise the stats..

aug dex 3
toughness 3
mom 3
aug acuity 3

will get you close, but the ToA bonuses will indeed make you better off (though a template with 26 dex cap 26 int cap 26 con cap 10% damage 10% cast speed will probably have pretty naff resists? )

but you'd be a fool to try to equalise the stats.

It's probably different amongst the classes, RR will help some more than others, MLs will help some more than others.

RR3 vs RR6 would be a saner comparison but then again so would a template involving fairly easy to get pieces of kit to a fully maxed out toa template.

Some artifact abilities are overpowered (e.g. malice proc, the other arti weapon procs are nice and all but nothing near as overpowered, eirenes proc) but on the whole they're not too bad...

Still, I've got my ToA gear (8 artifacts, including GoV and Cloudsong) in a lot less time than it'll take me to make RR6 from RR5...

You can get a half-decent ToA template (heck, an SI template with an artifact or two in) and get some of those overpowered procs/charges/whatevers without too much difficulty.

If you want to do everything you can to be even (e.g. the ultimate ToA template with zahurs rings in abundance) you'd have to include "being RR12" and that's a hell of a lot harder/more time invested than getting some poxy artifacts.


Now this is probably more a lesson on how class/spec matters more than anything else: but the quickest RPs I've made in NF was with my wizard (in his non-overcharged SC suit I had made for him at level 41, which includes 2 bits of epic). Went to a tower, aoed a group to death, went to another tower, bolted some things to death. Didn't even bother getting my RAs before I went out (he's RR3Lsomething and still got no RAs since the NF wipe)
 

Danamyr

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Flimgoblin said:
You can get a half-decent ToA template (heck, an SI template with an artifact or two in) and get some of those overpowered procs/charges/whatevers without too much difficulty.
Wow - you put a lot of effort into that reply :)

I accept the example you've given. TBH, when I typed my reply out I was thinking more about tanks (I've been playing Sturgis a lot recently as you know).

I think the answer to my frustrations is basically what you suggested above - to accept my personal circumstances make it impossible to get a kick ass template and instead go for something more obtainable. Two or three artifacts, questable jewelry and SC the rest.

I suppose at least that way I'll be able to enjoy RVR sooner, rather than stress about how long I'll have to wait for the next item on the list.
 

Flimgoblin

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Danamyr said:
I suppose at least that way I'll be able to enjoy RVR sooner, rather than stress about how long I'll have to wait for the next item on the list.
aye :)

and once you've got that template you can make up a "in a million years template" (e.g. one involving GoV like I did... though somehow I got a GoV at one point (ta Nale!)) to work on when yer bored...
 

Shanaia

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Danamyr said:
I suppose at least that way I'll be able to enjoy RVR sooner, rather than stress about how long I'll have to wait for the next item on the list.
I made that exact mistake with my scout ... strange as I didn't with my other chars ... I rvr'd with my other chars with 'decent' templates and just added an artifact or a high ml drop when I got it rather then wait till I had all...

but my main character (my scout) I stopped playing alltogether because I wanted to get her in a kickass set ... all leveled etc ... think I have most of the bits on her now and just need mlxp for ml8 too ... but it's taken soooo much time I litterally forgot how to play her in RvR and I now s00k at it (more then I used to)

My message? Either get your kickass set in a couple of weeks .. and if you know you can't then don't bother getting it as it might not be worth it.
 

Helme

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ToA is what you make of it, if you really MUST have the best of the best its your choice, but if you know you can't make it during your lifetime settle for something functional, but that still puts you on an even scale.

ML raids is the biggest pain with ToA imo, but if you cant join others raids lead yourself ;)
 

Elendar

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TOA just widened the gap between set guild grps, leet kiddies to those who lose to them, and casual players
pre toa almost everyone had sc, so the only difference character wise was in realm abilites
now a gank grp can run up to a casual grp, vastly better kitted out, with fz, bodyguard, banespike etc (all ml8+), much faster cast speeds, more dmg, resist piercing, bigger heals, bigger power pools, more health etc
if i run into a soloer in si sc without mls its beyond easy now, hit faster, hit harder, take more dmg, abilites like som, malice, battler, cere bracer, scalars, dream sphere etc, and that has nothing to do with ras
its not just for people who want to be the very best, to even have a chance of competing you need toa bonuses and artifacts, forcing you to do it if you want to solo or run in grps and have a chance
 

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