Ice wiz sc.

Ilum

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
1,774
[NO]Magmatic said:
Nailah / Tartaros dont increase cap, unlike MoM... At least I've not seen a cap increase with the 4% from GoV...

They increase cap. Test again.

[NO]Magmatic said:
And Mythic (as far as I know) did not put in a hard-cap on how much you can debuff for... I dont know if resist piercing lowers the time that a debuff lasts though...

Dunno really how it works, but most my targets gets debuffed to + dmg.

[NO]Magmatic said:
The way the resists got changed is that you only get 50% debuff if the person your debuffing is buffed (e.g. has resist buffs), wouldnt be supprised (knowing mythic) that this is bugged though... End result is only 30ish % debuff instead of 50%...

What was changed, as far as I know, was resist debuffs not counting double against resist debuffs any more. So a debuff should now debuff the exact percentage as opposed to before, when it debuffed more.

[NO]Magmatic said:
With 20% (10% passive, 10% active, still need jacina @ 10) I hit for 400ish or so, I like it, I like it a lot ;)

As long as you're not hitting a debuffed target, passive resist debuff > spell damage for sure.
 

Phusion

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
Messages
326
well, here is my template, didn't know any good items so i just tried this :

Config Report

Stats

Str: 0 Int: 75 Hits: 240
Con: 75 Pie: 0 Power: 0
Dex: 82 Cha: 0
Qui: 0 Emp: 0

Resists

Body: 27 Energy: 26 Crush: 29 (2)
Cold: 27 Matter: 27 Thrust: 26
Heat: 26 Spirit: 31 (5) Slash: 26 (3)

Skills

11 Cold Magic

Focus

50 Cold Focus

50 Fire Focus

50 Earth Focus

Cap Increases

5 Dex

40 Hits

5 Power

Other Bonuses

5 Buff Bonus

9 Spell Range Bonus

4 Spell Damage Bonus

10 Casting Speed Bonus

8 AF Bonus

5 Power Percentage Bonus

Piece Listing

Chest
Name: Nailah's Robe (caster)
Level: 51 Quality: 100
AF: Bonus:
Effect 1: 15 Intelligence
Effect 2: 6 Crush Resist
Effect 3: 6 Slash Resist
Effect 4: 6 Thrust Resist
Effect 5: 4 Spell Range Bonus
Effect 6: 4 Spell Damage Bonus
Effect 7: Empty
Effect 8: Empty
Effect 9: Empty
Effect 10: Empty
Utility: 46.00

Arms
Imbue Points: 37.5 of 32 (100 Qual) Overcharge: 38%
Gem 1: 25 Constitution - 99 flawless Earthen Essence
Gem 2: 16 Dexterity - 99 polished Vapor Essence
Gem 3: 4 Cold Magic - 99 flawed Icy Evocation Sigil
Gem 4: 60 Hits - 99 precious Blood Essence
Utility: 62.33

Head
Imbue Points: 35.0 of 32 (100 Qual) Overcharge: 78%
Gem 1: 3 Cold Magic - 99 rough Icy Evocation Sigil
Gem 2: 16 Dexterity - 99 polished Vapor Essence
Gem 3: 13 Constitution - 99 imperfect Earthen Essence
Gem 4: 11 Spirit Resist - 99 faceted Vapor Shielding
Utility: 56.33

Legs
Imbue Points: 35.5 of 32 (100 Qual) Overcharge: 78%
Gem 1: 60 Hits - 99 precious Blood Essence
Gem 2: 7 Body Resist - 99 imperfect Dusty Shielding
Gem 3: 7 Energy Resist - 99 imperfect Light Shielding
Gem 4: 9 Heat Resist - 99 polished Heated Shielding
Utility: 61.00

Hands
Imbue Points: 36.0 of 32 (100 Qual) Overcharge: 58%
Gem 1: 11 Cold Resist - 99 faceted Icy Shielding
Gem 2: 7 Matter Resist - 99 imperfect Earthen Shielding
Gem 3: 5 Slash Resist - 99 flawed Watery Shielding
Gem 4: 7 Thrust Resist - 99 imperfect Airy Shielding
Utility: 60.00

Feet
Imbue Points: 4.5 of 32 (100 Qual) Overcharge: None
Gem 1: 3 Thrust Resist - 99 rough Airy Shielding
Gem 2: 1 Heat Resist - 99 raw Heated Shielding
Gem 3: Empty -
Gem 4: Empty -
Utility: 8.00

Right Hand
Imbue Points: 0.0 of 10 (94 Qual) Overcharge: None
Gem 1: Empty -
Gem 2: Empty -
Gem 3: Empty -
Gem 4: Empty -
Utility: 0.00

Left Hand
Imbue Points: 0.0 of 10 (94 Qual) Overcharge: None
Gem 1: Empty -
Gem 2: Empty -
Gem 3: Empty -
Gem 4: Empty -
Utility: 0.00

Two Handed
Name: Traldor's Oracle
Level: 51 Quality: 100
DPS: Bonus:
Effect 1: 15 Intelligence
Effect 2: 50 All Focus Bonus
Effect 3: 5 Casting Speed Bonus
Effect 4: 15 Dexterity
Effect 5: 6 Heat Resist
Effect 6: 6 Cold Resist
Effect 7: Empty
Effect 8: Empty
Effect 9: Empty
Effect 10: Empty
Utility: 45.00

Ranged
Imbue Points: 0.0 of 10 (94 Qual) Overcharge: None
Gem 1: Empty -
Gem 2: Empty -
Gem 3: Empty -
Gem 4: Empty -
Utility: 0.00

Neck
Name: Acient Copper Necklace
Level: 51 Quality:
Bonus:
Effect 1: 10 Crush Resist
Effect 2: 10 Thrust Resist
Effect 3: 10 Body Resist
Effect 4: 10 Spirit Resist
Effect 5: Empty
Effect 6: Empty
Effect 7: Empty
Effect 8: Empty
Effect 9: Empty
Effect 10: Empty
Utility: 80.00

Cloak
Name: Cloudsong
Level: 51 Quality:
Bonus:
Effect 1: 5 Power Percentage Bonus
Effect 2: 15 Acuity
Effect 3: 5 Casting Speed Bonus
Effect 4: 5 Buff Bonus
Effect 5: 8 AF Bonus
Effect 6: 5 Power Cap Increase
Effect 7: Empty
Effect 8: Empty
Effect 9: Empty
Effect 10: Empty
Utility: 10.00

Jewel
Name: Erinys Charm
Level: 51 Quality: 100
Bonus:
Effect 1: 40 Hits
Effect 2: 15 Intelligence
Effect 3: 15 Constitution
Effect 4: 5 Crush Resist
Effect 5: 5 Spirit Resist
Effect 6: 5 Energy Resist
Effect 7: 5 Spell Range Bonus
Effect 8: Empty
Effect 9: Empty
Effect 10: Empty
Utility: 60.00

Belt
Name: Scurceol's Belt
Level: 51 Quality:
Bonus:
Effect 1: 7 Dexterity
Effect 2: 7 Constitution
Effect 3: 10 Energy Resist
Effect 4: 10 Matter Resist
Effect 5: Empty
Effect 6: Empty
Effect 7: Empty
Effect 8: Empty
Effect 9: Empty
Effect 10: Empty
Utility: 49.33

Right Ring
Name: Croc Tear Ring
Level: 51 Quality:
Bonus:
Effect 1: 4 Heat Resist
Effect 2: 4 Cold Resist
Effect 3: 4 Body Resist
Effect 4: 4 Matter Resist
Effect 5: 4 Energy Resist
Effect 6: 15 Intelligence
Effect 7: Empty
Effect 8: Empty
Effect 9: Empty
Effect 10: Empty
Utility: 50.00

Left Ring
Name: RIng of the Seven xx ( quest )
Level: 51 Quality:
Bonus:
Effect 1: 4 Cold Magic
Effect 2: 40 Hits
Effect 3: 6 Crush Resist
Effect 4: 15 Constitution
Effect 5: 13 Dexterity
Effect 6: Empty
Effect 7: Empty
Effect 8: Empty
Effect 9: Empty
Effect 10: Empty
Utility: 60.67

Right Wrist
Name: Ebon Hide Bracer
Level: 51 Quality:
Bonus:
Effect 1: 6 Cold Resist
Effect 2: 6 Body Resist
Effect 3: 6 Heat Resist
Effect 4: 6 Slash Resist
Effect 5: 6 Matter Resist
Effect 6: Empty
Effect 7: Empty
Effect 8: Empty
Effect 9: Empty
Effect 10: Empty
Utility: 60.00

Left Wrist
Name: Ceremonial Bracer
Level: 51 Quality: 100
Bonus:
Effect 1: 15 Dexterity
Effect 2: 40 Hits
Effect 3: 5 Dexterity Cap Increase
Effect 4: 40 Hits Cap Increase
Effect 5: 6 Slash Resist
Effect 6: Empty
Effect 7: Empty
Effect 8: Empty
Effect 9: Empty
Effect 10: Empty
Utility: 32.00




as you can see there are still 2 slots free on the gloves, can use them for some +power or str or another skill..
 

[NO]Magmatic

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
373
I stand corrected, it indeed increases cap :eek7:

From what I get though, you should get 31% debuff on unbuffed targets, and 62% against buffed targets... At least, from what I guess this is how it *should* work...

So to test this, I took my buff bot and my Spirit cabalist out for a test duel...

My buff bot with 7% body resists, got debuffed with 50% debuff, went to -24%, 31% indeed... That same bot with a 24% body resist buff (so 33% resists) went to -11%... 44% debuff... So debuffs work better when the person is buffed... But not the old 62% debuff :(

Anyways, this still doesnt answer the question if resist piercing increases the damage done on debuffed targets...

For this I used cloudsong on my other char, with cloudsong activated, on the buffed target above, after debuffing (so this person is on -11% resist):

402 (+56) = 16% damage increase over base
335 (+46) = 15.9% damage increase over base
384 (+53) = 16% damage increase over base
381 (+53) = 16.1% damage increase over base

Now I deactivated cloudsong:
(wasnt smart doing with cloudsong test first, turning off cloudsong is harder then you think ;))

375 (+37) = 11% damage increase over base
351 (+35) = 11% damage increase over base
323 (+32) = 11% damage increase over base
415 (+41) = 11% damage increase over base

As you can see, even though this person was debuffed into negatives (-11% to be exact), I got a flat 5% increase in my damage... So, unless you cap on your hits (doubt you will, my cabby certainly didnt hit cap but he only has 24 + 10 body), resist piercing will give you more damage then lower +dmg does...

When you have variance, the actual effect of +damage is hard to check, as the nukes arent for the same constant damage... And +damage is not something you see in (+xx), it increases your base damage by x%...

So even as debuff-nuker, I'd go for max resist piercing...
 

Ilum

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
1,774
[NO]Magmatic said:
I stand corrected, it indeed increases cap :eek7:

From what I get though, you should get 31% debuff on unbuffed targets, and 62% against buffed targets... At least, from what I guess this is how it *should* work...

So to test this, I took my buff bot and my Spirit cabalist out for a test duel...

My buff bot with 7% body resists, got debuffed with 50% debuff, went to -24%, 31% indeed... That same bot with a 24% body resist buff (so 33% resists) went to -11%... 44% debuff... So debuffs work better when the person is buffed... But not the old 62% debuff :(

Anyways, this still doesnt answer the question if resist piercing increases the damage done on debuffed targets...

For this I used cloudsong on my other char, with cloudsong activated, on the buffed target above, after debuffing (so this person is on -11% resist):

402 (+56) = 16% damage increase over base
335 (+46) = 15.9% damage increase over base
384 (+53) = 16% damage increase over base
381 (+53) = 16.1% damage increase over base

Now I deactivated cloudsong:
(wasnt smart doing with cloudsong test first, turning off cloudsong is harder then you think ;))

375 (+37) = 11% damage increase over base
351 (+35) = 11% damage increase over base
323 (+32) = 11% damage increase over base
415 (+41) = 11% damage increase over base

As you can see, even though this person was debuffed into negatives (-11% to be exact), I got a flat 5% increase in my damage... So, unless you cap on your hits (doubt you will, my cabby certainly didnt hit cap but he only has 24 + 10 body), resist piercing will give you more damage then lower +dmg does...

When you have variance, the actual effect of +damage is hard to check, as the nukes arent for the same constant damage... And +damage is not something you see in (+xx), it increases your base damage by x%...

So even as debuff-nuker, I'd go for max resist piercing...

Interesting test tho, but as you point out, your Cabalist has fairly low Body spec and bonus. The more body spec and bonus the closer to cap he'll hit on a general basis. Also, were you buffed? Acuity buffs helps a caster a lot to hit closer to cap damage. A third point is sacrificing 5% resist pierce to get 5% more damage isnt sacrificing resist pierce alltogether. I have 15% resist pierce with cloudsong and traldor's charges up. Does your cabas template have capped int even?
 

[NO]Magmatic

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
373
Old.Ilum said:
Interesting test tho, but as you point out, your Cabalist has fairly low Body spec and bonus. The more body spec and bonus the closer to cap he'll hit on a general basis. Also, were you buffed? Acuity buffs helps a caster a lot to hit closer to cap damage. A third point is sacrificing 5% resist pierce to get 5% more damage isnt sacrificing resist pierce alltogether. I have 15% resist pierce with cloudsong and traldor's charges up. Does your cabas template have capped int even?
I have no clue if my cabby has cap'd int, he wasnt buffed... Question is, do you hit your cap... If you do, then damage is better for you, if you dont, then resist piercing is better...

Because the increase isnt changed by how much your buffed, its still 5% from resist piercing (are there any 5% damage increase items apart from Tartaros ? ) ...

Oohwell, it doesnt matter, I've gone for resist piercing as I couldnt find any +dmg items besides tartaros and gov/nailah (and traldor >> tartaros) ... Go with whatever you desire imho :)
 

Shike

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
3,936
hmm

using Shikei's template

as my template, will improve it abit in a while I guess but tbh.. I play with 10% castingspeed and trald/Cloudsong atm and not many other bonuses and its working perfectly fine. Wouldnt wanna waste too much time on it. My nukes will cap somewhere around 625ish and pbae around 1100 with my RAs. Good enough for me.

Trald is alittle annoying to use tbh, short time its active, long reusetimer and kinda ruins potusage quite abit at start of fights so I notice I burn RP alot more often atm when a pot would have been fine instead. If it was 10min buff then it would be awesome, guess we cant have it all :D

Hope so see you out there soon Matt :wub:
 

Equendil

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 29, 2004
Messages
256
[NO]Magmatic said:
I have no clue if my cabby has cap'd int, he wasnt buffed... Question is, do you hit your cap... If you do, then damage is better for you, if you dont, then resist piercing is better...

Buffed, you do cap on people without resist buffs without too much of a problem (acuity buff and decent +body basically). Against 16% resist buffs, I expect you can still cap with a bit of resist piercing, but then people usually run around with no body resist buffs (mids) or the full 24% (hibs), so hard to tell. Against people with full resist buffs, I doubt you can hit for cap without more passive resist piercing than 5%.

Actually, I'm pretty sure your wizard would hit people without resist buffs for cap if you had power relics (ok, not like any mid/hib runs around without fire/ice/matter resist buffs tho).
 

Equendil

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 29, 2004
Messages
256
[NO]Magmatic said:
My buff bot with 7% body resists, got debuffed with 50% debuff, went to -24%, 31% indeed... That same bot with a 24% body resist buff (so 33% resists) went to -11%... 44% debuff... So debuffs work better when the person is buffed... But not the old 62% debuff :(

My assumption on the resist buff changes was that debuffs worked normally vs resist buffs, but only half as effective vs item resists. I read that in several places on U.S. boards. Your or my quick test seems to show that debuffs are also half as effective below 0.

With that in mind, 24% of the 62% would debuff the resist buff, leaving 62%-24% = 38%, of which half is applied, so 19%. That would bring your bot with 7% body resists down to -12%. Close enough to your -11%, but still not the exact thing...

That said, how did your bot end up with 33% resists out of 7% from items and a 24% resist buff ? Just a guess, but wouldn't your bot happen to have MoA3 ? Provided MoA works on resist buffs, that would increase the 24% resist buff to 26% and the math would fit indeed.
 

[NO]Magmatic

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
373
The bot has 25% buff-stuff from toa + moa 4 I think, I didnt do the math of the resist buff, just checked the end result ;) (which was from 7% -> 33% :))

As for cap'ing , I dont cap 98% of the time, my average nuke (without a body sorc debuffing) is between 350-450... I cant remember hitting below 350, but probably happens from now and then (facing extreme resists)... I also dont hit above 450 often, it does happen and with traldor buff up + cloudsong + a cold resist debuff, I've hit for 617 (6% from MoM2, 4% from GoV, 5% from traldor buff)...

Since I saw it increased my cap, I've been checking that out ;) And actually nuked for 617 a few times yesterday on newly rezzed hibs that got cold-debuffed :D
 

Sycho

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,255
Is band of stars worth using for the nice uv and overcaps? and does it lv fast?
 

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