I bet it was a lolcat after this!

[megadave]

Why's it so cruel? Cat probably had the time of it's life. Not as if being put in a box is going to upset it. It's a cat. Cat's fucking love going in boxes and small places.

 

[Zede]

My cats got twatted on weed for years. Never done em any harm.

Now if the the bloke in the vid was mixing it with tobacco - v. bad, but if it was pure weed - i really dont see a problem.

I would be far far more worried it he was smoking cat nip, my cats on fresh cat nip like they have just snorted a line of Columbian.

 

[Zede]

Why's it so cruel? Cat probably had the time of it's life. Not as if being put in a box is going to upset it. It's a cat. Cat's fucking love going in boxes and small places.

lol, exactly

 

[nath]

If we do need a few grams of meat every day (which according to many here we dont) then it would be okay to eat that couple of grams but we eat alot more than that. What is the extra 500g if not entertainment?

But it's clearly not "entertainment" is it. You may have a point that it's an unnecessary indulgence but that doesn't make it entertainment. Also the same accusation could be put on any number of things we do in the western world. Heck - why not just remove all forms of entertainment? Every time I buy a computer game, that's £25 I could put towards some well in Africa or some such. After all, how dare I put my enjoyment of shooting zombies ahead of children who have no access to clean water?

The fact of the matter is, people like eating meat and there's nothing wrong with that. It's the way we've evolved. There's also nothing wrong with killing animals for food. There *is* something to be said for making sure the life they do have is comfortable, and when they're taken to the abattoir there's a minimum of suffering. No doubt on this many places have a lot of room for improvement, but that's not the case you're arguing.

If you want to get all high and mighty about eating meat, maybe you should take a look at all the things you do with your life that are not absolutely necessary and, directly or indirectly, cause suffering to others. Every single penny you spend on your own entertainment or luxury could be spent on those less fortunate. Even if you live a frugal life, there's more that can be done. So lets just keep things in perspective here.

 

[Huntingtons]

eating good meat is a luxury, not entertainment.

entertainment is a luxury though.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well look at that, Gorb ignoring posts again.

By the way, i think Gorb eats meat, just to enforce his hypocrisy he has in every thread.

"Donate to poor people, i don't!"
"Vote and make a change, i don't!"
"Peek oil! I drive a car."

etc.

 

[Huntingtons]

no. hes pointing out the hipocrisy of others.

 

[Gorbachioo]

But it's clearly not "entertainment" is it. You may have a point that it's an unnecessary indulgence but that doesn't make it entertainment. Also the same accusation could be put on any number of things we do in the western world. Heck - why not just remove all forms of entertainment? Every time I buy a computer game, that's £25 I could put towards some well in Africa or some such. After all, how dare I put my enjoyment of shooting zombies ahead of children who have no access to clean water?

The fact of the matter is, people like eating meat and there's nothing wrong with that. It's the way we've evolved. There's also nothing wrong with killing animals for food. There *is* something to be said for making sure the life they do have is comfortable, and when they're taken to the abattoir there's a minimum of suffering. No doubt on this many places have a lot of room for improvement, but that's not the case you're arguing.

If you want to get all high and mighty about eating meat, maybe you should take a look at all the things you do with your life that are not absolutely necessary and, directly or indirectly, cause suffering to others. Every single penny you spend on your own entertainment or luxury could be spent on those less fortunate. Even if you live a frugal life, there's more that can be done. So lets just keep things in perspective here.

Here my dear friends is an excellent example of completely missing the point. Im not criticizing people for eating meat. Im criticizing the hypocrisy of eating meat and then feeling like you're somehow above the bong guy. My point is that we're no better and so we shouldnt act as if we are.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Well look at that, Gorb ignoring posts again.

By the way, i think Gorb eats meat, just to enforce his hypocrisy he has in every thread.

"Donate to poor people, i don't!"
"Vote and make a change, i don't!"
"Peek oil! I drive a car."

etc.

So what did i ignore now? Oh right, you're not going to tell me... Do give me an excuse why not though. Id love to hear it.

I do eat meat. I eat lots of meat actually and thats why im not being self-righteous about this thing.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Here my dear friends is an excellent example of completely missing the point. Im not criticizing people for eating meat. Im criticizing the hypocrisy of eating meat and then feeling like you're somehow above the bong guy. My point is that we're no better and so we shouldnt act as if we are.

If you can't differentiate between being unnecessary cruel to animals and eating meat, you ARE a moron.

You could MAYBE make that comparison between a farmer that KILLS the pig, and the bong guy, but not even then.

So what did i ignore now? Oh right, you're not going to tell me... Do give me an excuse why not though. Id love to hear it.

I do eat meat. I eat lots of meat actually and thats why im not being self-righteous about this thing.

Simple, it's natures way. Reason killing.

For meat, to eat.

I gave you a link to how bloodtype effects what you SHOULD eat, meat is something you should eat if it IS your diet.

Ergo, there's a reason to kill it, and in lower case eat it.

Humans are omni, carni and herbi vores these days.

No, you're not being self-righteous, you're just confused and being a dick about it. I guess you find punching people and eating them the same thing too.

 

[Gorbachioo]

If you can't differentiate between being unnecessary cruel to animals and eating meat, you ARE a moron.

You could MAYBE make that comparison between a farmer that KILLS the pig, and the bong guy, but not even then.

If you still cant understand this then you are a moron: Eating meat is "unnecessary and cruel". We CAN survive just fine on a vegetarian diet. (I will not say this again, go talk to a vegetarian about it)

Simple, it's natures way. Reason killing.

For meat, to eat.

I gave you a link to how bloodtype effects what you SHOULD eat, meat is something you should eat if it IS your diet.

Ergo, there's a reason to kill it, and in lower case eat it.

Humans are omni, carni and herbi vores these days.

No, you're not being self-righteous, you're just confused and being a dick about it. I guess you find punching people and eating them the same thing too.

Ive already explained this. Now tell me what ive ignored. Im waiting.

 

[Ch3tan]

I've read this twice now. I fail to see how a complete stoner thinking it's a good idea to put a cat in a bong is in anyway comparable to farming pigs for meat.

You are good at making the same point again and again, and insulting people, albeit subtly, you do not seem to be able to justify your argument. The only thing making you look good right now is Huntingtons even weaker arguments trying to back you up.

 

[Billargh]

I have yet to watch Pulp Fiction

Sod all the morality shite about killing animals, they're quite nom, I'll continue to eat them. The real problem is the above quote, you fail Laddey

 

[old.Tohtori]

If you still cant understand this then you are a moron: Eating meat is "unnecessary and cruel". We CAN survive just fine on a vegetarian diet. (I will not say this again, go talk to a vegetarian about it)

Ive already explained this. Now tell me what ive ignored. Im waiting.

1: You can't call it unnecessary and cruel if you do it. It's like saying "this is evil, but i just like stabbing people". You CAN survive on basically anything, doesn't mean it's healthy or good for a human. A lion can survive on carrots, doesn't mean it's natural.

2: You haven't explained anything, i told you, with proof, that bloodtype effects healthy diet and healthy diet includes meat. Survival is besides the point. Also leather produce and other import stuff is a valid reason.

What you've ignored is everything i said, you've not adressed the blood type, the need for meat, the fact that nature eats meat etc.

Also like i said; i think you believe punching a person and eating a person is the same, no?

 

[Gorbachioo]

I've read this twice now. I fail to see how a complete stoner thinking it's a good idea to put a cat in a bong is in anyway comparable to farming pigs for meat.

You are good at making the same point again and again, and insulting people, albeit subtly, you do not seem to be able to justify your argument. The only thing making you look good right now is Huntingtons even weaker arguments trying to back you up.

I make the same point again and again because thats all i got to say. It explains everything perfectly well but some people just dont seem to get it.

Just for you, i'll put it as simply as possible: Stoner putting cat in a bong = Pointless but entertaining for him. Normal guy eating meat = pointless but entertaining for him.

We dont need meat, yet we are cruel to animals because of it. We dont need to put cats in bongs, but still some do it. Doesnt mean its okay, but since we all do something thats almost the same we dont have the moral high ground.

 

[Gorbachioo]

1: You can't call it unnecessary and cruel if you do it. It's like saying "this is evil, but i just like stabbing people". You CAN survive on basically anything, doesn't mean it's healthy or good for a human. A lion can survive on carrots, doesn't mean it's natural.

2: You haven't explained anything, i told you, with proof, that bloodtype effects healthy diet and healthy diet includes meat. Survival is besides the point. Also leather produce and other import stuff is a valid reason.

What you've ignored is everything i said, you've not adressed the blood type, the need for meat, the fact that nature eats meat etc.

Also like i said; i think you believe punching a person and eating a person is the same, no?

Vegetarians.. hello!? ever met one? Did he seem ill to you? Now i told you, with proof, that you dont need meat.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Vegetarians.. hello!? ever met one? Did he seem ill to you? Now i told you, with proof, that you dont need meat.

This is due to bloodtype, as i said.

Not all humans should eat just carrots and tweeks.

Nice way to ignore rest of post again. Want the points once more?

As i've told you about three or four times already; people these days are omni-, herbi-, or carni-vores, depending on which point of human history their roots go to the strongest, aka, bloodtype.

 

[Uara]

You say its cruel.......but what if you rear your own animals (or purchase from a decent farm), they live a good life in the fields, fed decent foods and generally are treated well. Then when they are sent to the abattoir they are killed quickly,cleanly and humanely, then you get the meat off that animal.

How can you say in anyway its done in a cruel way, you're not torturing it,it doesn't live a life stuck in cramped environment etc etc Now if you buy from a battery farm style place I'd be more inclined to go along with them being cruel!

 

[Gorbachioo]

This is due to bloodtype, as i said.

Not all humans should eat just carrots and tweeks.

Nice way to ignore rest of post again. Want the points once more?

As i've told you about three or four times already; people these days are omni-, herbi-, or carni-vores, depending on which point of human history their roots go to the strongest, aka, bloodtype.

Aha. Okay i did not get that before.

Its a good thing that thats irrelevant though. Nobody knows which one of these groups they represent. Therefore its still entertainment for them in their mind, they just dont know that they actually need it.

Anyway, Im stopping this little debate now. Its not going nowhere (like it never does) because you cant admit you're wrong. Now bye bye.

 

[Gorbachioo]

You say its cruel.......but what if you rear your own animals (or purchase from a decent farm), they live a good life in the fields, fed decent foods and generally are treated well. Then when they are sent to the abattoir they are killed quickly,cleanly and humanely, then you get the meat off that animal.

How can you say in anyway its done in a cruel way, you're not torturing it,it doesn't live a life stuck in cramped environment etc etc Now if you buy from a battery farm style place I'd be more inclined to go along with them being cruel!

I'll answer this one then its over: As far as i know, most animals dont live like that. They live most of their life in an area surrounded by fences thats only a few square meters. They are not treated in humane way.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Actually i'll post one more thing. The reason why i feel like this thing is worth discussing.

People in the west are so incredibly hypocritical when it comes to animals. Some months ago there was that incident where a US marine tossed a puppy of a cliff. It caused a huge hassle and people actually threatened to kill him. Ofcourse its not okay to kill a puppy for no reason but that guy needed help, not threats from hypocrites who then went to eat a steak. Then during the occupation of Gaza there was a scandal about Israeli soldiers shooting zoo animals (which ironically, were kept in inhumane conditions in the first place, but only the israelis got blamed) and again people used it as excuse to critisize them.

Although i do eat meat i realise that its habit that we should gradually give up. Both for moral and ecological reasons. Thats why i think we should try to point this sympathy for animals to the right direction.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Aha. Okay i did not get that before.

Its a good thing that thats irrelevant though. Nobody knows which one of these groups they represent. Therefore its still entertainment for them in their mind, they just dont know that they actually need it.

Anyway, Im stopping this little debate now. Its not going nowhere (like it never does) because you cant admit you're wrong. Now bye bye.

Actually they do.

If you actually READ some of other peoples posts, you'd see this.

Link once more for the Gorb

I don't admit i'm wrong because there's nothing to admit. I sad; if you kill an animal for a reason, it's ok.

You've not questioned anything i've said, except the outdated notion that vegetariaism is good for other then vegetarians.

And here's a recap and other things for you to ignore:

- You would accept eating humans because punching people is the same as eating them, because cruelty to animals is same as eating them.

- You think kicking puppies is ok, because otherwise you wouldn't eat meat and call it the same. Or you're a hypocrite.

- If you eat a little meat, it doesn't matter, the whole cow dies anyway. Little or alot, no difference.

- Not all people should eat veggies alone, even if they CAN survive. Survival was an issue when we had natural predators, not anymore. Now it's about advancing the human race.

- The cons and pros of being a vegetarian can't be measured yet, because vegetariaism hasn't been around that long. You can't say it's healthier even for those who should eat just veggies.

Go ahead, ignore away.

But as a "nail to the coffin", give up meat, stop wasting fuel, start donating and start voting and THEN come judge us, in the immortal words of metallica: judge not least you be judged yourself.

You should listen to that Gorb, it's about you.

Disclaimer: I know, i managed to squeeze in a flame with MEtallica in a thread about animal rights and cruelty to steak

 

[Huntingtons]

I've read this twice now. I fail to see how a complete stoner thinking it's a good idea to put a cat in a bong is in anyway comparable to farming pigs for meat.

You are good at making the same point again and again, and insulting people, albeit subtly, you do not seem to be able to justify your argument. The only thing making you look good right now is Huntingtons even weaker arguments trying to back you up.

I have backed him up but once. Im not saying killing is entertainment. My point is this:
YouTube - Undercover Video Shows Abuse at Iowa Pig Farm

which had nothing to do with you. BinarySurfer used it as a prime example of why weed should be illigal. Then i use this as a prime example of why pig-farming should be illigal. (wether BinarySurfer was serious, i cannot tell -.-)

/edit

i see what you are refering to, my intention has never been to back anybody up

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

yep, thats all stoned people. harm animals.

Good attempted fallacy. Not what i said, nor what I implied.

why isnt pig-farming illigal then? have you seen how they get treated?

I'm going to take a wild guess from that clearly angered comment and say you are partial to weed or similar?

Pig farming and killing animals for food has no relation whatsoever (i'm not going to rehash why, other posters have covered it quite ably) to the topic at hand.

Perhaps i should clarify my comment as i tried to be brief and just ended up not saying what i meant to.

First of all lets set aside the socially accepted drugs vs non socially accepted drugs wank before it even begins. Not relevant to this debate.

Firstly, recreationally used drugs (with a few notable uncommon exceptions) do not make you into the next Charles Manson. Neither drugs themselves, nor doing them is "evil" or "immoral" (i've been there and done a few, as have some people i count among my close friends).

The key problem with drugs (and by extension the people using them) are:

1. They are addictive (either mentally or physically). Regular use of any addictive substance (even a mild one like caffine) changes your behaviour in small, gradual ways over time in accordance with your dependancy.
   
2. They lower your inhibitions significantly. Things that normally your Superego (for those without a bit of psych knowledge thats the bit of your mind that tells you what is socially acceptable, rules, standards etc) would normally go "Nu-uh not acceptable" about, suddenly seem fine.
   
3. Can produce physical side effects depending on the drug (not a huge danger with most casual / recreational users).

If you were a twat before smoking a joint you'll be a more mellowed out twat after, but still a twat and more likely to consider acting on any impulses you still have after mellowing.

If you were a complete pacifist who wouldn't hurt a fly beforehand, you're just going to be a more mellowed out pacifist.

To get back to my point, drugs are illegal because people are more likely to act on their impulses without consideration for laws/social rules while on them. (i agree it's a double standard with alcahol but that's not the discussion here).

There are also tax reasons admittedly, as well as the fact that many studies have proven that soft drug use can act as a gateway to harder drugs but thats not really the focus of what we're talking about here.

 

[Huntingtons]

you may have ment what you just posted, but thats not what you wrote.

Earning money in grand scale will also inhibit your morale. If you're a twat before you start earning money, Earning alot of money will likely make you more of a twat. I believe those who farm pigs for the purpose of selling their meat can be nice guys - but theres alot of people who treat them like dirt, stick em in areas where they cannot move, stress them into physical and mental damages etc.
I never EVER (EVER! in the qoute you posted) said anything about slaughtering them. EVER.



EVER.

so dont say i did.

The discussion isnt about weed. Its about a cat being mistreated, you using it as a prime example of why weed should be banned. Then you claim Alcohol isnt a part of discussion, which it then easily could be. If that is your major argument to why ban weed. Then it can easily be used in the discussion of banning alcohol, no?

 

[nath]

I'll answer this one then its over: As far as i know, most animals dont live like that. They live most of their life in an area surrounded by fences thats only a few square meters. They are not treated in humane way.

Fair enough, my post did somewhat miss the original point. What you've said here nails it I think. Farming animals for food is not *inherently* cruel, but often it works out that way. We should do something about that and do our best to improve the quality of life for farmed animals. No question - I doubt many people would disagree. However, it is possible for farmed animals to have a good quality of life, just because they're slaughtered at the end of it does not mean it's animal cruelty. Not if it's done appropriately.

The cat in a bong is blatant animal cruelty, end of story. Another thing that's people find disgusting about it is that he's getting enjoyment directly from the cruelty. This is not the case with farming - though conditions could improve massively on a lot of farms, it could never be argued (rationally) that animals are kept in such conditions for the sadistic pleasure of the farmers.

Basically, conditions of farmed animals should be improved so they can have a decent quality of life. However, farming animals is *not* inherently cruel. Cat in a bong IS inherently cruel.

 

[Ch3tan]

The cat should have done a poo in the bong. That would have taught the silly ****.

 

[Lamp]

I don't know (and don't care) who made the correlation between sticking a cat in a bong and killing animals for food, but they're two entirely separate discussions.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Fair enough, my post did somewhat miss the original point. What you've said here nails it I think. Farming animals for food is not *inherently* cruel, but often it works out that way. We should do something about that and do our best to improve the quality of life for farmed animals. No question - I doubt many people would disagree. However, it is possible for farmed animals to have a good quality of life, just because they're slaughtered at the end of it does not mean it's animal cruelty. Not if it's done appropriately.

The cat in a bong is blatant animal cruelty, end of story. Another thing that's people find disgusting about it is that he's getting enjoyment directly from the cruelty. This is not the case with farming - though conditions could improve massively on a lot of farms, it could never be argued (rationally) that animals are kept in such conditions for the sadistic pleasure of the farmers.

Basically, conditions of farmed animals should be improved so they can have a decent quality of life. However, farming animals is *not* inherently cruel. Cat in a bong IS inherently cruel.

Ahh well.. Since you're not tohtori i'll answer this.

You still miss the point entirely. Im not campaining for animal rights here. What im saying is that as long as we treat animals worse than the bong guy (and we do, being put in a bong doesnt compare with living your whole life in a cage just to be slaughtered) we dont have the moral high ground to blame this guy. Atleast as long as our reasons are no, or just barely, better. He does his thing because to him its fun. We do ours because meat tastes good. (And thanks to tohtoris inability to understand the real issues, we now know that some people really do need meat and those people can mock the bong guy all they want)

 

[nath]

You still miss the point entirely. Im not campaining for animal rights here. What im saying is that as long as we treat animals worse than the bong guy (and we do, being put in a bong doesnt compare with living your whole life in a cage just to be slaughtered) we dont have the moral high ground to blame this guy. Atleast as long as our reasons are no, or just barely, better. He does his thing because to him its fun. We do ours because meat tastes good. (And thanks to tohtoris inability to understand the real issues, we now know that some people really do need meat and those people can mock the bong guy all they want)

So would you agree that people who strictly buy free-range meat/eggs/whatever have the moral high ground to call this guy a wanker?

The fact is, most decent people would accept that what the stoner did was horrible and cruel. Most decent people would also say the same about the way some animals are kept in farms. It's a question of exposure - most people aren't exposed to that sort of thing and don't think about it. It's just human nature. If they were taken for a leisurely stroll through some of the really bad farms, I expect their reaction would be much the same.

You put out a massive generalisation that eating meat is cruel, but now it seems that your problem is the way some/a lot of animals are kept. So would you concede that eating meat isn't necessarily cruel if you actually make a point of purchasing from farms that treat their livestock humanely?