Hunters vs. other archers

[Renwind]

So i just wanna ask one question, what does hunter have that is as "good" as the other archers special abilities.
Scout:
Shield spec; Slam>all
Uber long range
and afaik slowest bows ingame

Ranger:
Dual wield;off evade stun>all except slam
pathfinding (similar to hunters bc)

Hunters:
Spear with a from behind stun wich is impossible to land in a 1on1 fight (i have not yet landed one anyway)
Beastcraft with the dog.


Is the dog that hunters get at high bc really making up for the Scouts shield spec and the rangers dual wield ?

 

[Archeon]

I think Hunters also have higher Weaponskill than Scout/Rangers. That and having the advantage of a weapon spec which is based on two stats (your highly unlikley to be debuffed for both Str&Dex in a 1on1 fight)

Aside from that i'd say the pet and the self buffs are pretty much what give the class its defining element.

 

[Simmern]

With the pet hunters kinda have an advantage against scouts ;d Scouts have to slam both the hunter and pet :x
Also, hunters hit damn hard with their spear :E

 

[Conchabar]

Okay .... Hunter is the worst archer of all in that respect.... there bow range is disgraceful!!! scout and ranger r kinda on the same lvl with bow dmg + bow range... i think they can both have the slowest bows ig iirc;x... Scouts sux in melee but i think there was a test awhile back proving that hunters were worse then scouts? i dunt remember:s rangers r the best archers dw half evade dmg add in path line ? uhh yer and hunters get sum gimpy pet or smth < dunt get me started on that >

oh yer not to forget a ranger when buffed with have haste buff

 

[Renwind]

sure scouts hit like shit but they can still take down a hunter pretty easy atleast in my experience since then pwn me with block , and if u want to do any dmg at all with a hunter u have to sacrifice almost all bc so that dosent do me any good. and afaik i know both scouts and rangers autotrain (may be wrong about this but i think both does it) and hunters dont, why ?

 

[living]

No even gonna mention how rangers soloed zerker unbuffed vs unbuffed pre LA nerf in melee.

 

[Marczje]

Those saying hunters are worse then scouts in melee have either never played one, or never played one correct. I have maybe lost 1 out of xxx melee duels versus scouts, and about 50/50 versus rangers, yes our bow sux, but hell to it ;p

 

[Auriel]

So i just wanna ask one question, what does hunter have that is as "good" as the other archers special abilities.
Scout:
Shield spec; Slam>all
Uber long range
and afaik slowest bows ingame

Ranger:
Dual wield;off evade stun>all except slam
pathfinding (similar to hunters bc)

Hunters:
Spear with a from behind stun wich is impossible to land in a 1on1 fight (i have not yet landed one anyway)
Beastcraft with the dog.


Is the dog that hunters get at high bc really making up for the Scouts shield spec and the rangers dual wield ?

I'd guess hunters can choose slash or thrust spears? 2 damage types for 1 spec line there. Spears being 2-handed should halve parry vs tanks and such, plus the dog is an extra attacker so that's a bigger hit to parry.

The spear back chain you might get lucky with on a run-through -> /face (I can do it with piercers sometimes ) May as well go for it since the evade / block / parry arc on enemies is normally frontal only.

The insta doggie is pure genious, you can keep a caster / healer busy with that while dealing with another target. Great for kiting too.

BC gives a run shout which is either a getaway or a sprint into melee depending what you want. Perfect for chasing someone and landing the back chain.

 

[Avindor]

Well I find good hunters to be really nasty opponents if they kite using the doggy. That is definately their strong point and gives them a little more utility against mages and other interruptable classes (other archers too).

Btw, not all rangers have access to stun - only pierce specced. Some are bladerangers *cough* like me.

 

[Sanzor]

Hunters have the great advantage with the pet. When the pet is attacking a scout in melee, they have 2 attackers...halving their current shield chance to block since its small size.

Going sword as hunter is a bad idea imo...since other assassin types got str debuff poisons. This ain´t so good, since Midgard swords are pure str...although spears are str/dex if im right.

 

[Dook]

In my experience (only a week, so don't read too much into my comments) as a Nightshade, Scouts are generally far easier to kill than Hunters.

Getting hit for 100/150 by pet and 400 by Hunter = ouch. :>

 

[Raven]

you have a pet that can interupt archers, ranger only has stun style if he specs pierce, path finding is worthless, can get better buffs from a lvl 3x bb than 50 pf (except the dadd/speed shout ofc)

 

[Aussie]

Those saying hunters are worse then scouts in melee have either never played one, or never played one correct. I have maybe lost 1 out of xxx melee duels versus scouts, and about 50/50 versus rangers, yes our bow sux, but hell to it ;p

that 1 is me then

 

[lathoniel]

thers only 1 or 2 hunters that do quite well tbh in melee V scout (speakng for myself) are fatty and shitter (stringer). most hunters V high shield kinda suck. the damage is good when it lands. but when being the keyword.

slash dmg V AP hunter is like 70-150 ? (avg 18+ hits to kill)
slash dmg normal is what 100-250 ? (avg 11+ hits to kill)
hunter dmg is 200-450 (avg 6hits to kill)

if the above figures are kinda correct. take an unpurged slam, giving 3 swings, makes me have to hit an un-AP'd hunter 8 times. so that narrows it down to him hitting me 6 times, me hitting him 8. plus a faster sabre speed gives me say an extra 2 swings during that time. kinda evens it out. then take i block like a fekker and evade. all hunter has is evade. scout V un-ap'd huner = scoutforthewin.

if u do the same test but throw in AP. whole new ball game. hunter will hit u eventually 4-6 times. hehe sometimes hey fatty (10 blocks in a row forthewin)

oh y, kinda forgot the pet hitting ya EVERY now and again for 50dmg. pfft.

scout V hunter a great fight. lurv em. middies roll more.

ps i h8 SB.

pss tip of the day . save that slam for 10-20%. watch that hunter crap his pants.

 

[Belomar]

Those saying hunters are worse then scouts in melee have either never played one, or never played one correct. I have maybe lost 1 out of xxx melee duels versus scouts, and about 50/50 versus rangers, yes our bow sux, but hell to it ;p

So, Marczje, how does what you are saying here and the quote in your sig relate to each other? I assume you put the quote there in jest--this would seem to indicate that you do agree with the thread starter.

 

[Flimgoblin]

unfortunately shield is a lot less use against assassins as you'll find it very hard to get past their evade since you're single wielding and you'll not block much either, no?

celtic dual for rangers halves their evade (and haves a scouts shield if you get that close) which should make it pretty useful....

 

[Driwen]

I think Hunters also have higher Weaponskill than Scout/Rangers. That and having the advantage of a weapon spec which is based on two stats (your highly unlikley to be debuffed for both Str&Dex in a 1on1 fight)

Aside from that i'd say the pet and the self buffs are pretty much what give the class its defining element.

in melee rangers are better and at range scout is. Also every archer can spec a str/dex weapon, scouts spec slash for the anytime (and possibly for a block reactive?).
Hunters do have the advantage of going either slash or thrust, the advantage of being able to half parry is abit nonsense as most people who can spec parry can spec shield and will have shield higher and then DW'ing would be better(also DW'ing halfs evade which is the defence of stealthers which is 90% of your opponents).

and self buffs are mostly useless archeon . Allthough with buffshearing they might be useful (basically buffbots give better buffs and you insta your doggie 99% of the time so you cant buff it, so you spec BC for pet and speed buff).
You need to time your doggie right though if you want to kite properly with it as it isnt fast and if you sprint you can out run it and it has the usual petproblems of being rather weak to CC(in a 1 vs 1 with a caster it might be useful, but if there is someone else who is awake than it will be CC'ed and useless again). However the doggie is useful and it seems that mythic went on the path that the pet and spear is the defining things of a hunter.

 

[Teslacoil]

well my mate zakine the headhuntress...has RvR specced hunter...

that is 50 spear/45bow/36 stealth atm anyway..


and i can tell u this...he hits hard ( add MoP3 on that spear dmg also ) , i
ve seen him pwn rr6-8 paladins in pure melee ( even when they use ip ) , and scouts? rangers? bah and doubble bah! they die in 4-6 hits....( if lucky with crits , even faster ) .....seen him take down rr8 zerks in duels and warriors and savages....so hunters are underestimated....


try and play one and really PLAY one to rr3+ and then come with which class is best =)


but on the other hand sb vs scout that's harder imo , then hunter vs scout.

well hope this help cya =)

*hugs*

/fast

 

[Sanzor]

well my mate zakine the headhuntress...has RvR specced hunter...

that is 50 spear/45bow/36 stealth atm anyway..


and i can tell u this...he hits hard ( add MoP3 on that spear dmg also ) , i
ve seen him pwn rr6-8 paladins in pure melee ( even when they use ip ) , and scouts? rangers? bah and doubble bah! they die in 4-6 hits....( if lucky with crits , even faster ) .....seen him take down rr8 zerks in duels and warriors and savages....so hunters are underestimated....


try and play one and really PLAY one to rr3+ and then come with which class is best =)


but on the other hand sb vs scout that's harder imo , then hunter vs scout.

well hope this help cya =)

*hugs*

/fast

Sounds pretty overdramatic my friend...dueld lots of hunters and i doubt they wanna duel me again. Getting through a warriors shield ain´t easy ^^ 1 slam vs hunters evade 2...take 2hander and you got yourself a dead hunter :-P

 

[Xajorkith]

Well I have a Warrior (50 Shield) and a Hunter, and in duels my Warrior has never been beaten by a Hunter and my Hunter has never beaten a Warrior.

A scout can also do that slam and CritShot trick (if hunters wolf is not out) which hurts quite a bit!

Secondly if a scout sees a hunter at 2000+ range the hunter has no defence (well run away I suppose), as the wolf won't attack until hunter gets to 1000 range. If the role is reversed the Scout without even using engage will block the vast majority of hunter’s shots.

I also have a hunter on the PvP server, and it's interesting to note that where you can pick any archer from any realm, in terms of popularity
Ranger (375) > Hunter (250) > Scout (193).

 

[Belomar]

Secondly if a scout sees a hunter at 2000+ range the hunter has no defence (well run away I suppose), as the wolf won't attack until hunter gets to 1000 range.

Sic range is 1500 units, just like normal nukes. However, I think you will find that your pet will attack anyone damaging you, so if a scout puts an arrow in you and your pet is not on passive mode, he will happily run to attack.

 

[Marczje]

So, Marczje, how does what you are saying here and the quote in your sig relate to each other? I assume you put the quote there in jest--this would seem to indicate that you do agree with the thread starter.

Hmm..

So Belomar, as I thought I made quite clear by stating.. our melee isn't bad at all, but our bow does suck, while it is our main weapon. Making a hunter overall way worse then its archer counterparts. My sig is there because the clueless guy says we aren't bad at all overall. I myself was talking about melee fights only..

/edit:

Didn't really disagree about the starting thread, did about the comments following though.

 

[Renwind]

well my mate zakine the headhuntress...has RvR specced hunter...

that is 50 spear/45bow/36 stealth atm anyway..


and i can tell u this...he hits hard ( add MoP3 on that spear dmg also ) , i
ve seen him pwn rr6-8 paladins in pure melee ( even when they use ip ) , and scouts? rangers? bah and doubble bah! they die in 4-6 hits....( if lucky with crits , even faster ) .....seen him take down rr8 zerks in duels and warriors and savages....so hunters are underestimated....

I really doubt that zakine can take out a rr6-8 paladin in melee i doubt it that she can even do it with arrows since they will block u alot and imo they are the best 1vs1 since heal chants and end chant and ur up to a long fight if u attack them and she isnt really that high rr only 4l5 (im 4l9) and i have never ever taken a pala this far, so that hunter u are talking about must be some kind of super char

but on the other hand sb vs scout that's harder imo , then hunter vs scout.

And how is this ? i play a sb to and usually scouts arent that big of a problem for a sb cause u will probably evade 60% of their hits and with stun in followup its not a problem really, as a hunter u swing less but harder but what does that help when they block 2/3 hits in my own experience anyway.

Well coming up on rr5 maybe it will be a little better then since more af and full use of weapons dps

 

[Raven]

I fear hunters the least when on my hero, i block pretty much every bow shot then destroy them in melee. but on my ranger i fear them the most simply because of their insta pet.

Its a tricky situation, obviously you cant have all 3 archer classes the same but i think scouts need better melee, hunters better bow and making s/s viable for them. Rangers are pretty much ok atm, though PF is pretty worthless they duel wield.

 

[Xajorkith]

Sic range is 1500 units, just like normal nukes. However, I think you will find that your pet will attack anyone damaging you, so if a scout puts an arrow in you and your pet is not on passive mode, he will happily run to attack.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Sic" (certainly not the Latin form anyway ) but the bow range's are definitely as follows:
Scout=2200
Ranger=2100
Hunter=2000

The wolf “attack range" is definitely 1000.

Your point about the wolf running off to attack the hunters attacker is in theory valid. However in practice the Hunter will 9 times out of 10 not have the wolf out, secondly the wolf runs so slow that by the time it reaches the Scout the hunters is dead, or the scout just slams the level 42 unbuffed pet and then carries on shooting at the Hunter.

Corleth Hunter Excalibur
Thimrath Hunter Camlann

 

[Jimmeh]

im pretty sure anyone with half a brain would move out of range while the pet gets into melee with the scout and then move into range and fire their own bow while the pet interrupts. then if the scout slams the pet ur interrupting with arrows... if the scout moves to melee you whip out your spear...

 

[Driwen]

if the scout moves to melee you whip out your spear...

shield vs 2hander, can be nasty for both. Hunters without pet are probably just as strong(or weaker) as scouts in melee and certainly weaker than rangers.

and you will get shot atleast twice or three times while getting out of range than the pet reaches him and you have to walk back 300 units or more so you are in range again (in the mean time he has probably slammed it by then).
I would prefer to either just face the scouts fire(for the few secs it takes before the pet arrives) or run into melee with the pet.

 

[Xajorkith]

TBH it's all bollux, if a scout is shooting at me, then his mincer mate has mezzed the wolf and me, and the infil is about to give me a good spanking!

Having a full brain I know I will probably die attempting to get out of the Scouts uber range, it only takes one crit shot and perhaps three shots to finish me off. If a scout can see me it means he has either TS'd me or he's shooting at me whilst I'm shooting at someone else.

I know how to play my two Hunters.

 

[Teslacoil]

people allway's forget.....ranger classes have purge/ip also .....so slam away mate purge is up ...


and for killing rr6-8 paladin...if that has never happen let my eyes fall out....cause iv'e been sitting right next to him and seen it matleast 4 times...the only class i seen him have trouble with is the famous duo infi+mincer or just infi alon =/

so no sry i ain't bullshitting u mates, belive it or not...


/fast

 

[Fatbelly]

Hunter is weaker than the other archers/assassins when fighting them, but when fighting some other classes, like casters/minstrel or a small group with healer(s) the pet makes hunters better in some cases.

Would trade BC and 2h spears for shield+1h weapon+evade3+200 more range+5.8 speed bows any day though