How would you describe the RvR compared to DAoC?

[Tagatha]

WAR has great rvr and is far superior to DAOC. DAOC seems to have had a better community feel, I cant explain it but it did. Also for many people it was the first real mmorpg and just the tip of the mental illness iceberg for many addicts.

If people have replied saying WAR RVR is crap, thats because they are not in a good guild, not out there every night trampling over the enemy and not racking up leet loot every night.

I am though, so I love it.

 

[mooSe_]

WAR has great rvr and is far superior to DAOC. DAOC seems to have had a better community feel, I cant explain it but it did. Also for many people it was the first real mmorpg and just the tip of the mental illness iceberg for many addicts.

If people have replied saying WAR RVR is crap, thats because they are not in a good guild, not out there every night trampling over the enemy and not racking up leet loot every night.

I am though, so I love it.

I never played DAoC but I agree that the community in WAR isn't as good as other MMOs I've played.
I think this is because everything is so easily accessible in WAR: for example in other games you have to say you are looking for a party in chat whereas in WAR you can just join an open warband without actually talking to anyone in it. Similarly you also get put straight in parties for scenarios so once again you don't have to talk to anyone. There is also very little communication in trading as 'WTS' is made pretty much dedundant by BoE/BoP and the AH.

 

[Xandax]

I never played DAoC but I agree that the community in WAR isn't as good as other MMOs I've played.
I think this is because everything is so easily accessible in WAR: for example in other games you have to say you are looking for a party in chat whereas in WAR you can just join an open warband without actually talking to anyone in it. Similarly you also get put straight in parties for scenarios so once again you don't have to talk to anyone. There is also very little communication in trading as 'WTS' is made pretty much dedundant by BoE/BoP and the AH.

I didn't find in DAoC - that asking in general/asking a person who were leader and getting written up on a list, then going /afk or chatting to guildies until you get invited to be the creator of great communities.

The sole reason why Warhammer "fails" at getting a good community - well failed when I played, I am unsure about right now - is that there was no overall realm feeling, realm pride. There's little to work together for - like relic raids. Limiting numbers at Fortress, making end-game RvR into PvE grind and so on. Then there was no need to really go outside guild/alliance.

Also many Warhammer players know each other already, and perhaps don't have the same needs to form social ties as they did in other games.
I was in a great community in Warhammer, because I knew people from DAoC. That meant I didn't have to socialize much outside guild/alliance.
In DAoC where I knew nobody you were kinda more forced to socialize to get to know people. It is just as in real life.

Communities overall are the same in all games. I've never seen the big difference between the communities in any of the MMOs I've played. The only thing which I've seen differ is my own level of socialization.

 

[Legean]

I think the RvR zones in WAR are just too small which bottlenecks everyone down the same channels.
Also the keeps are just boring, most being pretty much the same. In DAoC there were windows to fire out of at multiple levels, there was the roof to fire down from, at higher levels of keep there were multiple levels of battlement to attack from, there were different points to fire from and the range of spells/arrows was enough to reach people.
In WAR the keeps are static, tanks go and bash on the door whilst healers heal just out of range of damage and unless you are pushing out there is little chance of a sneaky push out of a postern as everything is open and you are easily spotted.
DAoC just had more options which prevented it from going stale. Having said that WAR still has its own charms and if the land was larger and the keeps less static it would be as much fun as DAoC was, maybe a little less due to lower class diversity.

 

[eksdee]

well the keeps also work in favour of certain tactics. i agree that they are static and boring, but as such it makes bombing big zergs hilariously easy. the best we've done so far is flying in as order entered the lords room at wilhelms fist and wiping the whole zerg in 30 seconds with just our 6man. 72 kills according to rvr-stats-tab addon

the thing i find is most broken is that if you're INSIDE the keep defending the 'traditional' way, i.e. not surprise bombing, there is almost nothing you can do unless you have enough numbers to push out. the siege weapons do next to nothing and it is simply way too easy to chain rezz people in this game.

still, the real fun should not be centred around pve in the first place ;o

 

[civy]

This is a combat log from end game rvr. I think it speaks for itself.

 

[Ctuchik]

racking up leet loot every night.

I am though, so I love it.

so as long as you're getting "leet loot" the rvr is great?

fuck actual RVR, givf epix!!!

 

[Case]

The end game is currently boring, we've started doing mostly scenarios as the open world stuff is just a PvE farm.

Even scenarios are getting old now though as there is no decent opposition on Karak Norn at all.

Bring back the good old days of Daoc where there were loads of really good groups all trying to be the best. Daoc always felt like a challenge, get the groups right, get the play right, you had to be a good player to win ect, WAR currently rewards mediocraty and time played over skill.

 

[mooSe_]

I'm currently playing alts in the hope that somehow the new content in 1.3 will make the end game more interesting.

 

[civy]

I think there needs to be a matching system that starts putting winners against winners and losers against losers. A kinda daily ladder for SC's. We have practically stopped running SC's and not trying to brag but, smashing every 12 man group you run into gets old very quick. Peeps have retreated to alts.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

I think there needs to be a matching system that starts putting winners against winners and losers against losers. A kinda daily ladder for SC's. We have practically stopped running SC's and not trying to brag but, smashing every 12 man group you run into gets old very quick. Peeps have retreated to alts.

Seconded - running with B&Q guildies we can kill 4/5 of the groups out there with brains switched firmly off, but meeting the 1/5 groups that actually require effort to kill is so painfully rare now

Before my enforced 2 week break (moving house) i was bored enough i began work on my SM and WH again for soloing...A leaderboard system would be excellent - particuarly for "paired" archetypes (e.g. you could see who's the best order healer vs your destro healer, or see who your rival mdps is as a WL etc).

Also make it proportional - e.g. average heals/mdps etc per scenario or per hour of rvr-flagged play. Make it so the casual players who are very good can get on that board (for example i often play with someone who is arguably one of the best healers around, but she logs very little playtime compared to many of the hardcore players so would never get on the board despite being better than a number of them).

I wholly agree with Legean's point about the damn keep design too - unimaginitive, formulaic and frankly boring. Make the courtyard smaller, make there ways for the defenders to attack the opposite force, and give randomly spawning entry points and missions to weaken the keep - for example introduce barrels of powder that require a long "channel" to place so you would have to stand there taking damage risking yourself for a large amount of damage to the door or produce a long duration (5-10s?) KD on anyone in the keep. Have catapults throwing burning pitch at the battlements creating "no go" areas for the defenders for a short time, up seige weapon damage to meaningful levels (oil at 1-2* current, all other seige at 3-4* current values). Anything to avoid the drudgery that is a keep fight as it stands...

 

[Ctuchik]

I'm currently playing alts in the hope that somehow the new content in 1.3 will make the end game more interesting.

it wont be. because everyone lvl 25 and up will rush to the new zone whenever they can. making that zone lag so badly a primetime city siege will seem smooth and stable. and everything that will come out of that expansion for quite some time will be ninja and/or AC keep takes to open it up.

 

[Ctuchik]

Seconded - running with B&Q guildies we can kill 4/5 of the groups out there with brains switched firmly off, but meeting the 1/5 groups that actually require effort to kill is so painfully rare now

Before my enforced 2 week break (moving house) i was bored enough i began work on my SM and WH again for soloing...A leaderboard system would be excellent - particuarly for "paired" archetypes (e.g. you could see who's the best order healer vs your destro healer, or see who your rival mdps is as a WL etc).

Also make it proportional - e.g. average heals/mdps etc per scenario or per hour of rvr-flagged play. Make it so the casual players who are very good can get on that board (for example i often play with someone who is arguably one of the best healers around, but she logs very little playtime compared to many of the hardcore players so would never get on the board despite being better than a number of them).

I wholly agree with Legean's point about the damn keep design too - unimaginitive, formulaic and frankly boring. Make the courtyard smaller, make there ways for the defenders to attack the opposite force, and give randomly spawning entry points and missions to weaken the keep - for example introduce barrels of powder that require a long "channel" to place so you would have to stand there taking damage risking yourself for a large amount of damage to the door or produce a long duration (5-10s?) KD on anyone in the keep. Have catapults throwing burning pitch at the battlements creating "no go" areas for the defenders for a short time, up seige weapon damage to meaningful levels (oil at 1-2* current, all other seige at 3-4* current values). Anything to avoid the drudgery that is a keep fight as it stands...

but all that would require ppl to actually care about any of that crap. and most of those ppl already play WoW for exactly the abovementioned suggestions, and i doubt they would switch to this game.


maybe the pvp in itself in WoW isnt all that great, but the system around it (arenas mostly) have everything a pvp'er would want. fg vs fg, 3v3, 2v2. only reason 1v1 isnt there is because healers would ultimately wtfpwn everything exept other healers, those fights would never end.

i very much doubt there's enough ppl in WAR that actually care about who's best at what, where and when. and especially in scenarios as those just sucks period.

the only real challenge WAR scenarios have is to run in solo and end up in a pug. set groups are such easymode its pathetic. its not even fun to farm RP's with one anymore.

 

[Zede]

The end game is currently boring, we've started doing mostly scenarios as the open world stuff is just a PvE farm.

Even scenarios are getting old now though as there is no decent opposition on Karak Norn at all.

Bring back the good old days of Daoc where there were loads of really good groups all trying to be the best. Daoc always felt like a challenge, get the groups right, get the play right, you had to be a good player to win ect, WAR currently rewards mediocraty and time played over skill.

 

[Flimgoblin]

This is a combat log from end game rvr. I think it speaks for itself.

shhh!

 

[Hawkwind]

Balance
war -- still a bit iffy in places

Iffy, damn I'd say it is so far out of balance it is causing issues. Take some of the mirror classes:

Choppa V Slayer you think that is balanced - Choppa does more damage and at further range (80 ft v 40 ft). Plus has access to that stupid magnetic type pull in ability. The Choppa is truely Warhammer's very own Warlock!

Squig v Shadow Warrior. Squig gets pet that does stupid damage and can fire and walk through walls. Plus they get decent escape abilities. SW does a bit more damage. The only pet Order gets is the White Lion which is so bugged it is joke. Occassionally will go into a locked keep but 9/10 just sits outside or running off.

Arch Mage v Shamen. Have played both and the survivability of a Shamen is way better.

If that is balance then I guess Order is never gonna get better.

 

[pikeh]

The only pet Order gets is the White Lion which is so bugged it is joke. Occassionally will go into a locked keep but 9/10 just sits outside or running off.

Agree with your other points, but SH pet is just as bugged. The only saving grace is that Gas/Spiked are ranged (but that dosen't stop them hopping off merrily into the path of a Slayer). When you can get them on a target, yeh they do nice damage, Just like WL pets.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Man has a point - in that the pet pathing in every mythic game has been incredibly poor. Look at how long it took to get them to do decent cabalist/spiritmaster pathing in DAOC?

Five years or thereabouts? When i stopped playing about a year ago the theurg and charmed pet bugs were still present (pets warping away at lightspeed often into zonewalls or keeps).

 

[rynnor]

Arch Mage v Shamen. Have played both and the survivability of a Shamen is way better.

If that is balance then I guess Order is never gonna get better.

I find them fairly balanced tbh - no idea what they'll be like after 1.3 tho

Engineer v Magus and BW v Sorcerer are mis-matches tho.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Engineer v Magus and BW v Sorcerer are mis-matches tho.

Muhahahahaha(TM)

The day of the Magus is coming.

Erm.

Well, so long as they don't pull back too much stuff from the test notes they are giving Changing magi next patch.

 

[Ctuchik]

****FACT***

DAOC HAS/HAD THE BEST END GAME OF ****any**** GAME I HAVE EVER PLAYED - END OF ( & i got my first video game in 1976)

the best YOU ever played yes. and i agree, DAoC end game WAS pretty damn fun, BEFORE ppl started running opted gank squads that couldn't play for shit without /assist and /stick.

 

[Ctuchik]

. Occassionally will go into a locked keep but 9/10 just sits outside or running off.

pets are not SUPPOSED to run inside a keep that has doors closed. its been concidered a exploit by both GOA and Mythic for over half a year now.

 

[Gahn]

the best YOU ever played yes. and i agree, DAoC end game WAS pretty damn fun, BEFORE ppl started running opted gank squads that couldn't play for shit without /assist and /stick.

Lol this statement is kinda ... funny in its own way.

 

[Genedril]

Lol this statement is kinda ... funny in its own way.

Indeed - damn those pesky kids using the tools available to them. They should all have run around nekid with only a lvl 1 staff equiped imho.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Lol this statement is kinda ... funny in its own way.

Seconded.

It's not fun to be on the receiving end of an opted fg, but it IS fun to play in one - not because you can "own" anyone but because it's a great experience learning to play / fight effectively as a unit with your groupmates. You won't understand it unless you've done it irl in a sporting team or in a game.

 

[Genedril]

Seconded.

It's not fun to be on the receiving end of an opted fg, but it IS fun to play in one - not because you can "own" anyone but because it's a great experience learning to play / fight effectively as a unit with your groupmates. You won't understand it unless you've done it irl in a sporting team or in a game.

Depends on the person I suppose but I definately prefered the teamwork aspect. It never was about steamrollering people for me (that wasn't fun in my view); it was about co-operating with your group mates while having a laugh & trying to get better.

I wouldn't play a team sport & not co-operate with my team & not try, as a whole, to get better at what we do.

 

[Zede]

the best YOU ever played yes. and i agree, DAoC end game WAS pretty damn fun, BEFORE ppl started running opted gank squads that couldn't play for shit without /assist and /stick.

spoken like a true zerger

Oh and its not just me, every single ex DaoC'r on here too prolly.