How to end the damn war

[VodkaFairy]

First, compare the Iraqi people to a small tribe that has no modern technology what-so-ever. When you put them in our western wold they can't handle it. This is - I think - the same for the Iraqi people. The lot of them doesn't know what democracy is. So if you give it to them they can't handle it. This will probably be exploited, because if you can make yourself feared you will get "votes". Just my point of view.

Second, a war is never "OK". A war is always the worst solution to a problem. There is no proof Iraq has chemical or biological weapons. Just watch the news - alot of Iraqi's see the Americans as invaders rather than liberators. Nobody has the right to wage war against any country without proper reasons. It's simple, the UN would have approved the war if there was GOOD evidence Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. But there is no evidence. Thus the UN didn't even vote about the war - it was simply out of the question.

It is a fact America has a huge demand for oil - and one of the largests supplies of oil in the world is in Iraq. Don't be naive and say America doesn't care about the oil.

They wage war because:
1) They want to liberate the Iraqi people. Many Iraqi people don't see it as liberating, but invading. <-- Fact.
2) They suspect Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. There is no proper evidence Iraq in fact has these weapons. <-- Fact.

The Americans are killing innocent people for what? Nothing, except two things: they feel the Iraqi's want to get rid of Hussein and the US needs the oil.

ps - A qualified president -in my eyes- is one that respects the public opinion. Bush also has no idea thousands of Americans will die in this war. He has the idea -somehow- the Republican Guard will drop dead when the Americans walk in. It will be a very bloody street-by-street war in Baghdad and that is exactely what he doesn't want.

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
First, compare the Iraqi people to a small tribe that has no modern technology what-so-ever.

Yep you're right. The major cities in Iraq look just like the Flinstones cartoon.

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
Second, a war is never "OK". A war is always the worst solution to a problem. There is no proof Iraq has chemical or biological weapons. Just watch the news - alot of Iraqi's see the Americans as invaders rather than liberators. Nobody has the right to wage war against any country without proper reasons. It's simple, the UN would have approved the war if there was GOOD evidence Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. But there is no evidence. Thus the UN didn't even vote about the war - it was simply out of the question.[/B]

There is proof that he HAD chemical weapons. Since the Iraqi regime could/would not explain what had happened to them sufficently and since things have appeared during the war that Blix was unware of we can safely assume that Saddam was playing his usual game. And it looks like with a few people it has worked.
Given a lifetime, Blix would never have found a thing.
Just because he doesn't find it, doesn't mean it's not there.

If there was no GOOD evidence, the UN resolutions would have never been in force, or would have been dropped before now.
And ofc the west knows all about the weapons he has that are not accounted for, France, Russia, UK and US all sold them to him.

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
It is a fact America has a huge demand for oil - and one of the largests supplies of oil in the world is in Iraq. Don't be naive and say America doesn't care about the oil. [/B]

I'm not being naive. All I'm asking is for you or anyone else to explain the oil theory to me.

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
They wage war because:
1) They want to liberate the Iraqi people. Many Iraqi people don't see it as liberating, but invading. <-- Fact.
2) They suspect Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. There is no proper evidence Iraq in fact has these weapons. <-- Fact.[/B]

Well duh. If you knew anything about some of the middle east countries you would know how these people are educated with propaganda, and due to there being a ban on many outside broadcast channels they eat what the regime feeds them everyday.
They will be told that the US is there to colonise them or worse, doesn't mean that once confronted with the truth they don't see it though does it?

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
The Americans are killing innocent people for what? Nothing, except two things: they feel the Iraqi's want to get rid of Hussein and the US needs the oil.[/B]

Well, firstly innocently people getting killed is a sad by-product of war, and in this case the Iraqi regime is not helping the issue with their tactics.
Your statement makes it seem intentional, fact is the only intentioal killing of innocent people comes by way of the regime itself.
And again I urge you to explain the oil part.
I know America needs it - but please explain in what way it's such a big factor.

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
ps - A qualified president -in my eyes- is one that respects the public opinion. Bush also has no idea thousands of Americans will die in this war. He has the idea -somehow- the Republican Guard will drop dead when the Americans walk in. It will be a very bloody street-by-street war in Baghdad and that is exactely what he doesn't want. [/B]

Public opinion in the US shows a majority in favour of the war.
Same in the UK. It's not by much I'll grant you, but still.
Also, lets' not forget that many other nations are involved in this coallition, each with their own public opinion of which I know only one of them (Spain) has a majority against.
If more people were really, and I mean REALLY against the war, you'd see more than the 1 million that turned up in London.
Thats a drop in the ocean compared to our population of 60M, or even London itself of 7-8M.

Truth is, those anti-people always seems to say they speak for the majoirity, yet there is no evidence to support this in 99% of cases.

 

[VodkaFairy]

It is not proven the Iraqi regime has weapons of mass destruction, nor is it sure they are ever likely to use it. Are you willing to kill thousands of people to find out? I don't.

The US doesn't want to pay alot of money for oil, so it's an extra reason to be in control of the Iraqi oil fields. The oil theory is that people think a very important reason for the war is the oil in Iraq. Bush doesn't like "his" oil in control of Hussein so he wants him removed.

And get the first quote right and try to understand what I said. I never said the big cities of Iraq live in the stone age

 

[VodkaFairy]

Btw - don't forget US propaganga. Of course you support the war if you see "your" president claiming to free the Iraqi people blahblahblah while you have no clue what's going on.

Again - this is no insult against all US people - it's just something I noticed in interviews. Quite sad.

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
It is not proven the Iraqi regime has weapons of mass destruction, nor is it sure they are ever likely to use it. Are you willing to kill thousands of people to find out? I don't.

Then where have the chemicals he had in '91 gone?
And if they have gone somewhere "lagally", why can't the Iraqi regime account for it to the UN as the resolution requests?

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
The US doesn't want to pay alot of money for oil, so it's an extra reason to be in control of the Iraqi oil fields. The oil theory is that people think a very important reason for the war is the oil in Iraq. Bush doesn't like "his" oil in control of Hussein so he wants him removed.[/B]

And nothing makes oil cheaper than a war right? Look at the booming economy.
So let's move on a step then, after all this is done, how do the US get control of the oil fields?
And I know that "people think a very important reason for the war is oil" - thats a pretty obvious statement to make and the reason I am asking someone who seems to believe it to delve deeper, cos the statement alone means nothing.


And get the first quote right and try to understand what I said. I never said the big cities of Iraq live in the stone age [/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
First, compare the Iraqi people to a small tribe that has no modern technology what-so-ever.[/B]

You never made a distinction though.

 

[VodkaFairy]

Have to go for dinner now - let's continue this discussion later

 

[var]

....Just duck and cover....even a small newspaper can save you!

 

[saltymcpepper]

the day after the war finishes:

 

[VodkaFairy]

 

[Exiled]

old

 

[saltymcpepper]

Do you want me to give him blond hair and pink lipstick and re post it then

 

[Exiled]

tilda already posted his pic leave him alone

 

[saltymcpepper]

LOL

 

[woodmansee]

All you people that scream anti war are FUCKING hypocrites...
Where was you when saddam was killing 1000000 or his own people?
Where was you when Iraq attacked Kuwait?

Your not anti war!
Your anti American and/or English!
Go live in Iraq and become a HUMAN SHIELD.....

Its just a shame that most of you people play american games, eat american food, watch american tv.movies, and live in a country that has done almost NOTHING for or in this world..
1 word!
JEALOUS!!!

For what Saddam has done over the last 10-20 years, he deserves everything he gets. The way I see it. The people of iraq are either to scared or to stupid to vote him out of power. Either way he has to go. Its a shame that Saddam is making what he calls, "his people", go down with him. Just another evil sign of this man. People against the war I say to you. Please open your eyes! Just because your fooled, and cant see how evil this man is, dont try to convince everyone else that hes not!

 

[Erekrose]

Originally posted by woodmansee

The way I see it. The people of iraq are either to scared or to stupid to vote him out of power.

You really dont see it do you?

 

[woodmansee]

O yea I see it mate!

Its all these anti war bods with shit in their eyes!

 

[Garnet]

Firstly this war isnt about Oil so Vodkafairy stfu about it. It has been said on every news station ive seen so far that the oil is going to the people of Iraq not bush.

Secondly this war IS about Terriorism and Saddam using biological weapons etc against his own people. We are trying to save them from future harm from him and trying to give them a free, peaceful life. Yes this war will fuck up many things in Iraq but im sure bush will try and fix them after the main problem (saddam) is out of the way.

Personally I say well done to US + UK + other forces for trying to get this bastard out of power.


P.S I think Bush is a fucking asshole.

 

[DD&BD]

Originally posted by Garnet
Firstly this war isnt about Oil so Vodkafairy stfu about it. It has been said on every news station ive seen so far that the oil is going to the people of Iraq not bush.

every news station? what the western ones who are pro war? or have the Middle Eastern, French and Russian ones been saying that too? how is it going to work that the people get the oil? do they just get it all free when they want it or will it be 'theirs' to sell to who ever they want?

Did Bush start all this or was it started by Saddam in Kuwait, and he just danced his merry dance around the UN for 12 years?

maybe it was started when the US funded him in his fight against Iran? or when we sold him arms and these bombs everyone is so very worried about?

There is proof that he HAD chemical weapons. Since the Iraqi regime could/would not explain what had happened to them sufficiently

im not sure about law but shouldn’t it be up to us to prove they have them not them to prove they don’t (it doesn’t help them that they cant say what they did with them though)

Anyway it’s started now and we can’t pull out now just don’t like how it’s been done even if he is a nasty piece of work

p.s I also think bush is an asshole.

 

[Tasans]

The oil deal is going to be the same as the last time, you people can have it, but you will trade it with us with medical supplies, which you cant get anywhere because we have an embargo up your ass (and ofc everything will go in the hands of goverment officials and the people wont see shit).

 

[Trinilim]

Originally posted by vesta
9-11-01

Revenge and oil is what this is about.......

Revenge yes, as America has allready declared war on terrorism, and Saddam Hussein is without any doubt, a terrorist.

Oil is just a plus.

The whole basis of the war is on removing Saddam Hussein from power, liberating the Iraqi people, and crushing terrorism.

The only reason oil is involved in the first place is because Iraq has control over thousands of oil wells, which are used ALL OVER THE WORLD, and Saddam threatened to set fire to all of them (not possible now, but he set fire to 9 I think it was). That's not just fuel for the entire planet, that's one of the biggest enviromental CATASTROPHES mankind has ever seen.

This war is not being fought for oil.

If it was, it would be over, we allready have control over all of them.

Think about it..

 

[Trinilim]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
Btw - don't forget US propaganga. Of course you support the war if you see "your" president claiming to free the Iraqi people blahblahblah while you have no clue what's going on.

Again - this is no insult against all US people - it's just something I noticed in interviews. Quite sad.

9 news stations out of 10 are ANTI-WAR.

Just fyi.

 

[Arthwyr]

If you want to remove a tumor you will first have to do some serious cutting, it will hurt you might possibly have a scar afterwards but once its removed there is actualy a chance you will heal and eventualy fully recover.

 

[DD&BD]

Originally posted by Trinilim
9 news stations out of 10 are ANTI-WAR.

Just fyi.

can i ask how you know this? bit of a striking accusation to make, any chance you could give us some info on who said that?

 

[Karam_gruul]

one word

nook

 

[VodkaFairy]

All you people that scream anti war are FUCKING hypocrites...
Where was you when saddam was killing 1000000 or his own people?
Where was you when Iraq attacked Kuwait?

Your not anti war!
Your anti American and/or English!
Go live in Iraq and become a HUMAN SHIELD.....

I was a 6 year old kid back then, didn't speak more than 5 words of english

I love a good disucussion - but its no discussion if you don't read my posts. So start doing that and we'll talk, k? I never meant I'm anti-war, I never said I'm anti-US/UK. I am however very much against the way this war is going now. Without UN support.

Its just a shame that most of you people play american games, eat american food, watch american tv.movies, and live in a country that has done almost NOTHING for or in this world..
1 word!
JEALOUS!!!

Exactely what has this got to do with anything? Because the US has a large movie/gaming industry they are allowed to nuke every country they want? This is exactely the attitude I disgust - because the US did some good things for the world everyone is supposed to bow down and stick to their arse. No thanks. We've done nothing for the world? Who's the hypocrit now?

For what Saddam has done over the last 10-20 years, he deserves everything he gets. The way I see it.

I never said Saddam was a saint - he has to be removed from power - but not this way.

The people of iraq are either to scared or to stupid to vote him out of power.

I don't think the Iraqi's have the right to vote.

Just because your fooled, and cant see how evil this man is, dont try to convince everyone else that hes not!

Sweetheart, read my posts. I never said he wasn't "evil".

My big problem is, Bush and Blair are getting so many people killed for reasons that are simply invalid. Just give me a good reason that gives them the right to kill.

 

[Karam_gruul]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy

I love a good disucussion - but its no discussion if you don't read my posts. So start doing that and we'll talk, k? I never meant I'm anti-war, I never said I'm anti-US/UK. I am however very much against the way this war is going now. Without UN support.

wtf, whats the difference about being with or without UN support?! other than we'd be able to drop more bombs if they did back us?

having the UN on our side wouldnt make a diff, war is war, people are still gonna die, personally i think britain and the US should pull out of the UN, its rubbish...

/edit, and a good reason as to why we should kill iraqies? they're nutters, you just know saddam has links to al-quieda. and we know for an absolute FACT he has chem weapons. i know we dont know for SURE if they have ties with al quieda, but its not a risk thats worth taking. whats a few iraqi deaths compared to hundreds of thousands of british/us deaths? i know who's lives i hold more valuable.

 

[VodkaFairy]

Sorry if I was a bit unclear what I meant - I admit I don't have all the facts right - but looking at CNN and Bush's speeches I know one thing for sure:

Many people will die, and Bush is trying to hide it. Nor does he have support from the world. It's easy to throw bombs on people far away you will never ever see for real.

There are tens of thousands of well-trained Iraqi soldiers around Baghdad ready to kill your friends and family members. For what? Bush's revenge, and the feeling the US has to be the police of the world.

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by Karam_gruul
wtf, whats the difference about being with or without UN support?! other than we'd be able to drop more bombs if they did back us?

having the UN on our side wouldnt make a diff, war is war, people are still gonna die, personally i think britain and the US should pull out of the UN, its rubbish...

You just like seeing dead Iraqi people, I disgust you.

edit - Err.. what exactely do you want Karam, after all Iraqi's are dead?

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
There are tens of thousands of well-trained Iraqi soldiers around Baghdad ready to kill your friends and family members. For what? Bush's revenge, and the feeling the US has to be the police of the world.

Hmm weird... yesterday it was because of this:

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
They're killing thousands of people for a selfish cause - oil. [/B]

 

[Karam_gruul]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
Sorry if I was a bit unclear what I meant - I admit I don't have all the facts right - but looking at CNN and Bush's speeches I know one thing for sure:

Many people will die, and Bush is trying to hide it. Nor does he have support from the world. It's easy to throw bombs on people far away you will never ever see for real.

There are tens of thousands of well-trained Iraqi soldiers around Baghdad ready to kill your friends and family members. For what? Bush's revenge, and the feeling the US has to be the police of the world.

for starters, i have no family or friends in iraq. secondly, the brave soldiers out there are there to basically save the world. as i said in my previous post, saddam and his people have to die. the brave soldiers throwing down they're lives for the good of the world are among the most admirable people on the planet imo.

and yea, its easy to throw bombs on people far away, and its more fun

bottom line is, i beleive nearly all iraqies hate us. i've seen things on tv, where they're all basically saying they absolutly hate all british and americans, and love saddam houssain. that makes them no better than him, and gives them as much right to die as him. its a nation of absolute hatred, evil, and we need to nuke um.