How can we get more youths working?

Chilly

Balls of steel
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People say that young people just want to be on benefits it's simply not true, it comes down to the fact that employers place stupid barriers on jobs such as MUST have 10 years+ experience i mean wow what a great way to cut out anyone under 35.

Sure some just don't want work but the vast amount do WANT a wage packet every month and want all the things like holidays etc.

Employers are the problem in my opinion.

Because it's a very difficult job that requires rock solid experience. You'll find most jobs asking for large experience will offer big bux. Young people earn less than old people. It's the way it fucking works.
 

Mey

Part of the furniture
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I personally think it's because schools do not place enough emphasis on the need to add diversity to your portfollio of skills. Get out there and do some volunteer work, get some hobbies, be an interesting person etc..
 

old.user4556

Has a sexy sister. I am also a Bodhi wannabee.
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3. Poor education of many school leavers

As an employer, I think Silverhood has got it pretty bang on. The majority of 16-20 year olds I see fit point 3 almost exactly.

<SNIP>

I weep for our future. It's not that there aren't jobs, it's that most of the young are not worth employing.

There are exceptions, but they are normally the ones going to University and not studying media studies or some other bullshit degree created to boost stats for governments.

After leaving uni with a first class degree and several years work experience, I have applied for around 200 jobs all suited to my skills and experience.

I have been approached by ONE company since I left uni (2007) and that was our direct competitor, who have massively failed and had to scale back all their operations. I've basically all but given up of ever being considered fairly for a job, even though I'm 26 now.

To the likes of Silverhood et al - the problem is a lot deeper than simply employers not hiring the dole-kids, employers don't seem to be hiring young people AT ALL, regardless of their ability to do the job.

Perhaps that then indicates that the job market in which you operate is saturated.

It's an example, other people with totally different degrees/unis/job applications also have great difficulty. Unless you can secure something while you're still at uni, it seemingly becomes harder and harder once you're out.

I'm going to have to back Wazz up on this fully. My girlfriend and her peer group are of the graduating age (22, 23 to 24ish), I'd say they were from white collar working class / middle class families, very well educated, very well spoken with very good degrees. They are all struggling to find work UK wide.

Lawyers - (I am friends with around 5 lawyers across different friend groups) economic downturn, not hiring. Some of them got lucky and got paid a "retention wage" to come back and see if there was a job in a years time. One year on, no job. Some of the really lucky ones got a probationary position with some paid experience but with no prospect of a full time position.

Secondary teachers - securing probationary positions, but due to local council cutbacks no full time position after 12 months. My dad partially retired at 60 and now works part-time in a school to supplement his pension. He was telling me that none of the three probationers at his school are being kept on and they're all working silly long hours for free plus extra ciricular work just incase a job comes up. My missus' pal who is currently a maths teacher is applying for roles across Scotland as she's just found out she has no job. In addition, a lot of the teachers due to retire are getting a golden goodbye to retire early, probably to free up posts to allow the new recruits to get a job.

IT - no experience, no job. In my place, they want to offshore as much as possible thus removing all requirement on UK developers (contractor and permanent). This was also my own experience too, I just got lucky by being in the right place at the right time to get into IT.

Physiotherapy - simply no work.

Most of them are going back to do masters as they haven't found work this after graduating.

*shrug*
 

Gumbo

FH is my second home
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I think at this point the debate needs to be split, 16-19 year old unemployable chavs and decent qualified unfortunate people who can't find their chosen career. It's two completely separate questions in my eyes.
 

rynnor

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IT - no experience, no job. In my place, they want to offshore as much as possible thus removing all requirement on UK developers (contractor and permanent). This was also my own experience too, I just got lucky by being in the right place at the right time to get into IT.

I wouldnt tell my kids to train in IT - I cant see a fantastic future to support tens of thousands of students in it the way things are heading.

Train in Medicine, Psychology etc. etc. - still decent demand in these and good skills to emigrate with if markets bad here.

Or proper vocational skills - certified builder, gas plumber, electrician - if you can get an apprenticeship.

Training in Law is a big mistake - its always been very over-subscribed so avoid like the plague!
 

old.user4556

Has a sexy sister. I am also a Bodhi wannabee.
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I wouldnt tell my kids to train in IT - I cant see a fantastic future to support tens of thousands of students in it the way things are heading.

Train in Medicine, Psychology etc. etc. - still decent demand in these and good skills to emigrate with if markets bad here.

Or proper vocational skills - certified builder, gas plumber, electrician - if you can get an apprenticeship.

Training in Law is a big mistake - its always been very over-subscribed so avoid like the plague!

Rynnor, I wish I could predict the future like you. How on earth are we going to be able to educate what's right and wrong for four to five years down the line?

When I started out in IT there was still a very large demand for it, but four years on it started to dwindle as the Indian outsourcing really gripped. It was the same for law - the house market boom seemed endless and lawyers were commanding huge fees with plenty of conveyancing work to go around. Now the housing market is bust and firms can't axe staff quickly enough (there isn't just conveyancing ofc).

You're never going to know what's going to be in demand in four or five years, maybe the NHS will outsource all the top jobs to Indian doctors / surgeons / GPs who will cost a fraction of what UK medics would demand to get paid. Who knows.
 

Gwadien

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Right, i'm reasonbly intelligent, B-C's yeah, but I can't get a job at a supermarket till i'm at Uni now

Also - the not very clever kids try to convince themselves that brick laying can make you into a multi millionaire in a couple of weeks :)
 

rynnor

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When I started out in IT there was still a very large demand for it, but four years on it started to dwindle as the Indian outsourcing really gripped.

Outsourcing IT started in a big way just before 2000 - thats over ten years ago - its been obvious for the past 5 years just how many Indian IT grads were available.

It was the same for law - the house market boom seemed endless and lawyers were commanding huge fees with plenty of conveyancing work to go around. Now the housing market is bust and firms can't axe staff quickly enough (there isn't just conveyancing ofc).

When I finished my law degree some 13 years ago my classmates all struggled to find positions - most ended up working elsewhere or doing a few years as legal execs to get experience to be taken on as trainee's - there hasnt been massive demand for law students in probably 25-30 years.

You dont have to be psychic just realistic and enquire widely of recent grads of any course you want to study.

The funny thing is theres always a demand for english educated Medical staff - often in the states or elsewhere though.

As for Psychology theres no shortage of potential clients and theres a big push on in talking therapies plus many people just arent tough enough to cope with the mentally ill - if you are your on a winner.
 

rynnor

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Also - the not very clever kids try to convince themselves that brick laying can make you into a multi millionaire in a couple of weeks :)

Hah not quite but you can make a lot of money if your properly trained and work like hell.

I have a mate who left school in the middle of his A-levels to apprentice under a master builder doing restoration on really ancient properties (one was Keats old home) who earned enough to retire at 35.
 

old.user4556

Has a sexy sister. I am also a Bodhi wannabee.
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Outsourcing IT started in a big way just before 2000 - thats over ten years ago - its been obvious for the past 5 years just how many Indian IT grads were available.

Yep, well I started it in 1998 when it was all 'ZOMG Y2K', the dotcom boom and the advent of some serious web site designing.

"You'll never be out of a job in IT!"


Lawl, how naíve.
 

Chilly

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Well we have trouble hiring good enough programmers tbh. We pay plenty but there simply isnt a good enough supply of expert programmers with experience of distributed/financial systems. The marketplace seems to be full of cowboys and amateurs who spent a summer writing java applets and think that qualifies them to write enterprise grade distributed systems.
 

Bugz

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What degrees do people going into programming etc. do at uni?

I know of someone who graduated a first in computer science at Oxford and the amount of knowledge he displays overall - from maths to physics to I.T to computer science etc. is just absolutely startling (obviously some of which will be what interests him).

It seemed to me one of the most intensively fantastic courses to do in terms of job prospects.
 

SilverHood

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I did Business IT at Bournemouth Uni (with advanced programming as final year module). Spent a year at UBS being a junior programmer writing small apps and patching / upgrading the existing code base for one of the trading desks.
My programming skills were good enough, so was going to move to enterprise trading applications, but unit got shut down. Didn't fancy going back to London so I took a support gig to stay in the USA.

If you want a job in IT, consider the indirect route:
I went through something called the FDM Academy. A mate of mine went through a company called Hatstand. Some brutal terms when you start, but such is life.
 

Chilly

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What degrees do people going into programming etc. do at uni?

I know of someone who graduated a first in computer science at Oxford and the amount of knowledge he displays overall - from maths to physics to I.T to computer science etc. is just absolutely startling (obviously some of which will be what interests him).

It seemed to me one of the most intensively fantastic courses to do in terms of job prospects.

Well I did physics & computer science. I believe that to be a systems developer, not just an application developer, you should have some serious mathematical/scientific training. You simply cannot write good algorithms without scientific rigor (comparing implementations, testing performance, determining performance bottlenecks). It's all very impirical and requires a broad understanding from the wire to the concept.
 

DaGaffer

Down With That Sorta Thing
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I'm going to have to back Wazz up on this fully. My girlfriend and her peer group are of the graduating age (22, 23 to 24ish), I'd say they were from white collar working class / middle class families, very well educated, very well spoken with very good degrees. They are all struggling to find work UK wide.

Its a recession. This is not unusual.

Lawyers - (I am friends with around 5 lawyers across different friend groups) economic downturn, not hiring. Some of them got lucky and got paid a "retention wage" to come back and see if there was a job in a years time. One year on, no job. Some of the really lucky ones got a probationary position with some paid experience but with no prospect of a full time position.

As above, when I graduated, nearly (eek) 19 years ago, it was a recession too, and two of my lawyer friends and a couple of people with management trainee jobs were given the same option as your friends now.

Secondary teachers - securing probationary positions, but due to local council cutbacks no full time position after 12 months. My dad partially retired at 60 and now works part-time in a school to supplement his pension. He was telling me that none of the three probationers at his school are being kept on and they're all working silly long hours for free plus extra ciricular work just incase a job comes up. My missus' pal who is currently a maths teacher is applying for roles across Scotland as she's just found out she has no job. In addition, a lot of the teachers due to retire are getting a golden goodbye to retire early, probably to free up posts to allow the new recruits to get a job.

This is a side-effect of the wider recruitment problem; the glut of graduates always default to teaching as their last option (I know two recent graduates in this position), I reckon for every dedicated, always-wanted-to-do-it teachers, there are a dozen who end up in teaching for lack of a decent alternative.

IT - no experience, no job. In my place, they want to offshore as much as possible thus removing all requirement on UK developers (contractor and permanent). This was also my own experience too, I just got lucky by being in the right place at the right time to get into IT.

Physiotherapy - simply no work.

No idea about physio (and am surprised actually), but the writing's been on the wall for IT for a looong time; I was told not to go down that road back in the early 90s, and to avoid programming in particular because cheap outsourcing was "inevitable" (source: a TDA for ICL who taught part time at my Uni). In the main, if you want to get on in IT in the UK, get into management and learn how to manage remote teams.

Most of them are going back to do masters as they haven't found work this after graduating.

*shrug*

Exactly what I did back in '92. Which is what I'm getting at; a lot of people on this thread seem to think there's some big structural change going on that's making new graduates (or young people in general) less employable; I'm not convinced, because 2010 looks pretty much like 1991 to me (or, God help me, 1983 for that matter).
 

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