How can we get more youths working?

[Bugz]

Youth (16-25) unemployment is suffering the most in the recession - almost 3x as many youths unemployed as adults in some countries.

Considering these youths are our next generation of workers, surely we should be getting them on the road to employment asap?

What needs to be done in your opinion?

 

[kirennia]

Cut benefits...

 

[Bugz]

Cutting benefits is not independent to the youth market & indeed may cause even more unemployment amongst youths.

The problem in my opinion lies in the barriers to employment as a youth. Why employ a youth when you can employ a guy with 20+ years life & work experience etc.

 

[SilverHood]

The problem with hiring youths these days, is that there's a huge entitlement chip on many of their shoulders. Going to work is a favour they do the company they work for, and being expected to work hard is alien to a lot of people.

The causes of high unemployment among youths is threefold in my opinion:
1. Retarded income tax rules
2. Benefits handed out too easily
3. Poor education of many school leavers


1. Right now, you pay income tax on anything over around 4-5k. Yet to work a 38 hour week on minimum wage, your yearly salary will be about 12k. Benefits is about 10k if you're single. It does not pay to be on minimum wage. As soon as you go above the 5k threshold, you would be better of on benefits. This is called a benefit trap - work slightly harder and you lose out. Any earnings below 14k a year need to be totally tax free so you only start paying tax once you clear what you could be earning on benefits.

2. Go to job center, fill the forms in. There ya go, good on ya son! There's plenty of work that could be done. Jobcenter in Bournemouth was awesome for this - turn up in the morning, get a job for the day, and get paid BY the jobcenter at the end. Local businesses needing manual labour just called up and said how many people they needed for the day. In comparison, the one in Woking don't quite know what to do with all the people that are piling in. They suck badly at matching people to jobs too.

3. This one gets me. English is incredibly easy to learn to read, write and speak. Yet so many school leavers can't string together a proper sentence when they leave school, let alone write in a formal manner. Maths is... well, not even going to go there.

 

[Gumbo]

As an employer, I think Silverhood has got it pretty bang on. The majority of 16-20 year olds I see fit point 3 almost exactly.

It is currently 'cool' do be a bit thick. If you happen to be a smart lad, who likes to read a bit and works pretty hard at school, you're labeled a geek and ostracized. It is seen as dead 'ard if you don't know shit about shit.

I weep for our future. It's not that there aren't jobs, it's that most of the young are not worth employing.

There are exceptions, but they are normally the ones going to University and not studying media studies or some other bullshit degree created to boost stats for governments.

 

[Nate]

I think another part of the reason is, jobs don't last as long as they used to. Employers will look at a employee and think they will get a few good years out of them, then either the job will be complete or they will hire someone new.

This then gives the people with experience but less working years left in their career with all the advantages.

Gumbo, when hasn't it been that the cool gang weren't as smart as the geeks they bullied?

 

[cHodAX]

The problem with hiring youths these days, is that there's a huge entitlement chip on many of their shoulders. Going to work is a favour they do the company they work for, and being expected to work hard is alien to a lot of people.

The causes of high unemployment among youths is threefold in my opinion:
1. Retarded income tax rules
2. Benefits handed out too easily
3. Poor education of many school leavers


1. Right now, you pay income tax on anything over around 4-5k. Yet to work a 38 hour week on minimum wage, your yearly salary will be about 12k. Benefits is about 10k if you're single. It does not pay to be on minimum wage. As soon as you go above the 5k threshold, you would be better of on benefits. This is called a benefit trap - work slightly harder and you lose out. Any earnings below 14k a year need to be totally tax free so you only start paying tax once you clear what you could be earning on benefits.

2. Go to job center, fill the forms in. There ya go, good on ya son! There's plenty of work that could be done. Jobcenter in Bournemouth was awesome for this - turn up in the morning, get a job for the day, and get paid BY the jobcenter at the end. Local businesses needing manual labour just called up and said how many people they needed for the day. In comparison, the one in Woking don't quite know what to do with all the people that are piling in. They suck badly at matching people to jobs too.

3. This one gets me. English is incredibly easy to learn to read, write and speak. Yet so many school leavers can't string together a proper sentence when they leave school, let alone write in a formal manner. Maths is... well, not even going to go there.

Benefits £200 a week? For a single person? You are having a fucking laugh, basic dole is £60 a week, incapacity benefit is £85 lower and £105 higher rate.

From the government website...

For the contribution-based JSA, you get £47.95 per week if aged between 16-24, and £60.50 per week if aged over 25.

For income-based JSA, you get £60.50 per week if you are single and aged over 25, or £94.95 if you are in a couple.

Let us get this straight, living on £60 is fucking hard and isn't a choice for most people even young people. Yes there are loads of dossers but they top thier benefits up with illicit means, 90% of young lads aren't doing that though and have to try exist on a fucking pitance.

 

[cHodAX]

For the mathematically challenged 52 x 60 = £3120 a year, not the £10,000 the doom and gloom mongering news papers would have you believe. That kind of money barely keeps the lights on and food in the belly trust me.

 

[Ch3tan]

Yeah, I really don't know where these figures come from. If you are under 25 you get sod all on the dole. And if you have not contributed to NI for the past year, then you are on income based JSA, which is the lower rate.

 

[Tom]

I'd suggest that the lack of male role models (ie no father) is somewhat to blame. Mum = let son get away with murder. Dad = swift kick up the arse followed by threat of no home to return to.

 

[Raven]

Bullshit.

I grew up without a father and I have done OK for myself

 

[Jeros]

Well i have a saying "there is ALWAYS work if you look for it".

Trouble is, as people said above, a lot of kids don't see the point, and would rather live a meek existence on what benefits they can scrounge. Bring back national service!...........Christ never thought i would say that.

Also too many places have the "high staff turnover" issue, sacking random people one week and hiring again the next, not because the employee actually deserves to be sacked, but absolutely no clue on the part of high up managers/HR on how the hell the company should be managing its money.

Other issues is a screwed benefits system, like my friend with a kid, she took a part time job, and lost more in benefits that she made in earnings and got into debt.

Also a disturbing trend of having large amounts of council housing away from any sort of industrial or commercial centre, another friend of mine was telling me that kids to turn to crime for a better income where he is from due to:

A: They need to get up at stupid o'clock to get to the nearest city that actully has jobs.

B: They cant afford the train fare every day to and from work until they get their first paycheck.

The place he has from has almost nothing in the way of shops and NO industry from what i can gather (ex mining town) Just lots and lots of council housing.

There is no one problem, just a great many, and no amount of governments promising to fix just one thing can solve it.

 

[Bugz]

I don't want to sound arsey or the such here but youth unemployment was an issue I never saw in my grammar school. Anyone who didn't need to work due to their parents being on 100k a year didn't and those who did got jobs pretty much instantly (I rarely heard of someone applying for a job and getting rejected). My old boss, who hired a lot of people from my school, said he loved having the flexibility of school kids; who were more likely to say yes to weekend hours or short time notice. My other friends had jobs in all areas; from pubs to cafes to clothes shops to cinemas etc.

So does this mean there's something(s) lacking between the 80%+ (?) who come from comprehensives and the grammar school stream?

 

[Tom]

Bullshit.

I grew up without a father and I have done OK for myself

Wow, a sample size of one. That's a great way to disprove an argument.

 

[`mongoose]

So does this mean there's something(s) lacking between the 80%+ (?) who come from comprehensives and the grammar school stream?

Probably, yes.

Bear in mind not everyone get's the opportunity to go to Grammar School, there is a world of difference between a school where students either pay to go or face strict entrance conditions and a comprehensive who takes everyone (most state schools have strict equality & diversity policies along with inclusive learning policies)

There is a growing concern that we have vast swathes of young adults who are not in training, education or employment. There's not just one reason for this. It would be easy to say it's educational ability, standards or benefits but it's a combination of many factors.

It's also a bit naiive to just look at jobseekers and say well that's all they make. If you're on support and in a council home you're getting contribution to bills, rent and whilst it's not easy to support yourself on the money that you recieve on JSA if you are successful in gaining employment you don't see much financial benefit from it because you're immediately liable to pay bills which quickly soak up the additional income that you've secured. This is if the NI people don't then come looking for you additional payments to backdate you NI contributions.

There is a very real benefit trap in the UK, removing benefits would remove the trap but would also remove the safety net and just put vulnerable people on the streets. Not everyone who isn't working is a good for nothing immigrant muslim asylum seeking single mother living a life of luxury at our expense in a house that sleeps 18 with ensuite bathrooms contrary to some of our more popular tabloids.

There is a widening gap between those earning the best wages and those earning the worst. No government has successfully controlled that gap whilst I don't want to turn this into a left vs right/centre political debate I don't think either of the current main parties have too much of an idea about what to do about this short of taxing higher income bands. This imo will just lead to creative bonuses to avoid the higher rates or a migration of very successful people to other countries...

Whilst there's alot to be said for many employers complaining about the standards of young adult they interview, there's a converse argument that many companies don't invest in the people they employ leaving them trapped in dead end jobs with little enjoyment or motivation to succeed.

The problem is that the real change in society will have to start with us rather than with the state. Everyone's sat around saying why doesn't the government do something about it whilst screaming nanny state, discrimination, don't tell me what to do when they try.

M

 

[Tom]

There is a widening gap between those earning the best wages and those earning the worst.

Along with that gap comes increasing standards of living for those on or under the breadline.

There's nothing wrong with having a gap between rich and poor. Hammering the rich will only make the poor, poorer.

 

[chipper]

stop giving them false hopes of getting a 6 figure sum salary if they spend the next 5-6 years in higher education

the government is determined to get everyone into college with promises of you will leave here and be able to get a job running the world etc! ( i exagerate ofc but you get the idea)

then these youths leave said college and university thinking well im not doing manual labour its beneath me i want my 100k a year job and the problem is there are probably another 1000ppl or more who did the same course and think exactly the same thing.

i agree education is needed but the time wasters and slackers should be given the boot and made to get a proper job.

simple fact of life is we would all love well paid jobs the truth is for many of us thatll never happen think this country needs to wake up a bit and stop deluding its self.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

After leaving uni with a first class degree and several years work experience, I have applied for around 200 jobs all suited to my skills and experience.

I have been approached by ONE company since I left uni (2007) and that was our direct competitor, who have massively failed and had to scale back all their operations. I've basically all but given up of ever being considered fairly for a job, even though I'm 26 now.

To the likes of Silverhood et al - the problem is a lot deeper than simply employers not hiring the dole-kids, employers don't seem to be hiring young people AT ALL, regardless of their ability to do the job.

 

[Chilly]

After leaving uni with a first class degree and several years work experience, I have applied for around 200 jobs all suited to my skills and experience.

I have been approached by ONE company since I left uni (2007) and that was our direct competitor, who have massively failed and had to scale back all their operations. I've basically all but given up of ever being considered fairly for a job, even though I'm 26 now.

To the likes of Silverhood et al - the problem is a lot deeper than simply employers not hiring the dole-kids, employers don't seem to be hiring young people AT ALL, regardless of their ability to do the job.

you do a shit degree?

 

[Tom]

After leaving uni with a first class degree and several years work experience, I have applied for around 200 jobs all suited to my skills and experience.

I have been approached by ONE company since I left uni (2007) and that was our direct competitor, who have massively failed and had to scale back all their operations. I've basically all but given up of ever being considered fairly for a job, even though I'm 26 now.

To the likes of Silverhood et al - the problem is a lot deeper than simply employers not hiring the dole-kids, employers don't seem to be hiring young people AT ALL, regardless of their ability to do the job.

Perhaps that then indicates that the job market in which you operate is saturated.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

It's an example, other people with totally different degrees/unis/job applications also have great difficulty. Unless you can secure something while you're still at uni, it seemingly becomes harder and harder once you're out.

 

[Tom]

What is it you do? I avoided the whole job application thing by starting my working life as a self-employed person.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Senior QA (Currently Match Engine & Viewer), Football Manager series of games.

Bear in mind that I've been applying for jobs outside of current industry as well as inside. Games industry is pretty fubared for new jobs and has been for a couple of years, outside (to me) seems to be the same.

 

[Lazarus]

forced conscription

 

[Aoami]

Senior QA (Currently Match Engine & Viewer), Football Manager series of games.

Bear in mind that I've been applying for jobs outside of current industry as well as inside. Games industry is pretty fubared for new jobs and has been for a couple of years, outside (to me) seems to be the same.

wow, what was the excuse for the 3d match viewer in FM 2009?

 

[Aada]

People say that young people just want to be on benefits it's simply not true, it comes down to the fact that employers place stupid barriers on jobs such as MUST have 10 years+ experience i mean wow what a great way to cut out anyone under 35.

Sure some just don't want work but the vast amount do WANT a wage packet every month and want all the things like holidays etc.

Employers are the problem in my opinion.

 

[Jeros]

stop giving them false hopes of getting a 6 figure sum salary if they spend the next 5-6 years in higher education

the government is determined to get everyone into college with promises of you will leave here and be able to get a job running the world etc! ( i exagerate ofc but you get the idea)

then these youths leave said college and university thinking well im not doing manual labour its beneath me i want my 100k a year job and the problem is there are probably another 1000ppl or more who did the same course and think exactly the same thing.

i agree education is needed but the time wasters and slackers should be given the boot and made to get a proper job.

simple fact of life is we would all love well paid jobs the truth is for many of us thatll never happen think this country needs to wake up a bit and stop deluding its self.

Depends on the subject area and what you want to do with it tho.

If your doing medicine or say, physics there is probably a really good chance of a job. Even the Comp Sci crowd don't seem to be having much issues getting a job in what I was under the impression is a saturated market.

 

[Aada]

stop giving them false hopes of getting a 6 figure sum salary if they spend the next 5-6 years in higher education

the government is determined to get everyone into college with promises of you will leave here and be able to get a job running the world etc! ( i exagerate ofc but you get the idea)

then these youths leave said college and university thinking well im not doing manual labour its beneath me i want my 100k a year job and the problem is there are probably another 1000ppl or more who did the same course and think exactly the same thing.

i agree education is needed but the time wasters and slackers should be given the boot and made to get a proper job.

simple fact of life is we would all love well paid jobs the truth is for many of us thatll never happen think this country needs to wake up a bit and stop deluding its self.

Well said, i've said it before i know a hell of a lot of people who went and did the uni thing but never got a job doing what they wanted to do and won't do anything beneath 40k a year. Yes some of these guys are 30+ still living at home.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

wow, what was the excuse for the 3d match viewer in FM 2009?

I wasn't in this role then.

Ever tried to convert a 2D engine into 3D in the space of 6 months devtime? Think about just how much needs to be done.

 

[rynnor]

Im not convinced kids are the largest section of the unemployed - the govt cooks the figures so much its a pathetic joke.

No-one counts for 6 months and no-one counts after 2 years, nobody on invalidity/disabled benefits counts etc. etc.

We have whole mining towns on invalidity benefits

Its the only reason we appear to have lower unemployment than europe - its bullshit based on cooking the figures - we probably have a rate not much below spain.