Horizon tonight

[rynnor]

I still think its stupid to focus on the birth rate while ignoring the huge problem of rising life expectancies.

 

[DaGaffer]

I still think its stupid to focus on the birth rate while ignoring the huge problem of rising life expectancies.

Not really. There's the potential to do something about the birth rate, what are you going to do about life expectancy? I know, encourage everyone to drink beer, smoke fags, drive fast. Ban the HSE. Sound Policies For A Better Britain!

 

[rynnor]

Not really. There's the potential to do something about the birth rate, what are you going to do about life expectancy? I know, encourage everyone to drink beer, smoke fags, drive fast. Ban the HSE. Sound Policies For A Better Britain!

But life expectancy will undermine the rest - having the highest consuming nations living far longer is a bloody disaster.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Right wing nazi-ism right there Toht.

Not really, especially since i couldn't give two tosses about any political party/alignment(unlike brits), it's a necessary change to the situation, limiting over-population and removin g parents who can't afford kids from the system.

If they wanht to have more kids, go right on ahead, but there would be no medical help, no monetary help etc for them.

The main point would be to create more responsible parenting, more secure homes for kids and so on.

Though since you called me a nazi; maybe britain should look at some of the nazi "how to" tricks, just because they're nazi ideas, doesn't make them bad

Hell, Nazi Germany worked better then Britain does these days

About life expectancy;

Go the same way. Drop excess help from the government to people over 75(or even 60) and if they still stick around to a 100+, good for them.

I've always said that the one thing that will destroy humanity is the zealot way humans have to save everyone.

 

[rynnor]

Not really, especially since i couldn't give two tosses about any political party/alignment(unlike brits), it's a necessary change to the situation, limiting over-population and removin g parents who can't afford kids from the system.

If they wanht to have more kids, go right on ahead, but there would be no medical help, no monetary help etc for them.

The main point would be to create more responsible parenting, more secure homes for kids and so on.

Though since you called me a nazi; maybe britain should look at some of the nazi "how to" tricks, just because they're nazi ideas, doesn't make them bad

Hell, Nazi Germany worked better then Britain does these days

Its interesting that the 'science' of Eugenics did not die when Nazi Germany fell but actually lived on in Scandanavia until the 70s - its a horrible de-humanising 'science' that favours an animalistic approach of 'survival of the fittest'.

Denmark was the worst offender with mass forced sterilization programs but there was still eugenic policies in Finland too - did you ever hear anything about them as you were growing up Toht?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Its interesting that the 'science' of Eugenics did not die when Nazi Germany fell but actually lived on in Scandanavia until the 70s - its a horrible de-humanising 'science' that favours an animalistic approach of 'survival of the fittest'.

Denmark was the worst offender with mass forced sterilization programs but there was still eugenic policies in Finland too - did you ever hear anything about them as you were growing up Toht?

Some bits here and there, not really a big teaching point so would have to hit the books/parental unit to find out.

I'm just curious if it IS de-humanizing, or if (for example) the UK is a bit too over-humane. IT's not even that horrible really, if it fits a need.

The problem is, whenever someone suggests something that sounds even remotely "Nazi"(even if it isn't), it's deemed as satans nipplejuice

In any case whole humanity could use with a little step back from all the safeguarding, PC'ing, saving the world bull. The hippies are in power now, the children of the warpeeps, we're next and well, we might pull this weed-eating, peace loving, save every carrot'ing humanity out of the sh*thole yet.

 

[rynnor]

I'm just curious if it IS de-humanizing, or if (for example) the UK is a bit too over-humane. IT's not even that horrible really, if it fits a need.

In Denmark they used to sterilise those judged of low intelligence or who were disabled.

Its de-humanising because the right to reproduce is a fundamental human right - when a state decides that certain people arent fit to breed you are basically creating an underclass of 'sub-humans' which is where you end up back at the Nazis.

Either you believe that all people are equal and have fundamental human rights or your on a slippery slope to the concentration camps...

Edit: oh and Eugenics was also a pseudo-science because they had a genetic aim but no real understanding of genetics so much that they did would not achieve their aims - because many genes have multiple uses and often need multiple copies to express various diseases - all of which they knew nothing about.

 

[old.Tohtori]

In Denmark they used to sterilise those judged of low intelligence or who were disabled.

Its de-humanising because the right to reproduce is a fundamental human right - when a state decides that certain people arent fit to breed you are basically creating an underclass of 'sub-humans' which is where you end up back at the Nazis.

Either you believe that all people are equal and have fundamental human rights or your on a slippery slope to the concentration camps...

Ah you misunderstand.

I didn't say that 'sub-humans' shouldn't breed, but those who can't afford it shouldn't. Need a proper living arrangement, moneys, etc to be a fit parent.

Also those who are not deemed to be fit(even by no other classification then financial), would be free to breed, but they would not be supported by the government.

It's not the government telling "you can't breed!", but more "We won't support you if you do, and if you want support, we take ze...ahem...THE kid until you're fit."

 

[Calaen]

What about someone who has money then loses their job? What about someone who's business goes titis up?

 

[rynnor]

Ah you misunderstand.

I didn't say that 'sub-humans' shouldn't breed, but those who can't afford it shouldn't. Need a proper living arrangement, moneys, etc to be a fit parent.

Also those who are not deemed to be fit(even by no other classification then financial), would be free to breed, but they would not be supported by the government.

It's not the government telling "you can't breed!", but more "We won't support you if you do, and if you want support, we take ze...ahem...THE kid until you're fit."

You would end up with packs of feral kids without any education - one way or the other the government would have to support them if only to imprison them.

Theres no real halfway house - either you force people to have less kids or you dont.

 

[Lethul]

yup hehe or those planning to have more than 2 should reconsider

It's not the westerners that have more than 2 kids that are the problem. Its the Muslims and Chinese that want 1000 kids in each family (at least the chinese have taken a firm grip on the problem)

With that said, here in Sweden I am not used to the chav culture. So might not be the same there?

 

[old.Tohtori]

What about someone who has money then loses their job? What about someone who's business goes titis up?

Good point. Mandatory "rainy day" fund would work here. Basically you're forced to give away part of you pay and then recieve it if/when you lose your job.

You could even set the amount yourself (minimum/maximum naturally).

Otherwise, 6 months clock period where you have to get employed, then you're cut off regarding the kid stuff. You can raise the kid ofcourse, but no help.

You would end up with packs of feral kids without any education - one way or the other the government would have to support them if only to imprison them.

Theres no real halfway house - either you force people to have less kids or you dont.

Well, i'd say people would abort more if they knew they wouldnt recieve any help towards the kid. They just couldn't afford it and the government made it very clear there's no help.

How feral they'd be? Well, people live on farms their whole lives and they don't turn criminal. Tribes in africa, etc.

Ofcourse there would be problems, like with any situation, but one would have to try it to know.

 

[Lethul]

The Chinese one child policy is another approach, and would probably work better in Europe, (where we're not as obsessed about having male children) than it does there. The problem is that the Chinese model also has a brutal economic (and social) effect on those couples who have a second kid, which Europeans wouldn't tolerate.

I think it works like this. Everyone is entitled to more than 1 child. But for the first child you get school etc paid (I think). But if you get 1 more child you will have to pay everything for both children. So no child support at all if you have more than 1. I've also been told twins etc are excused.

I also think you can apply for "rights/support" to a second child. Al tho I don't think they hand it out generously.
I picked this up from a discussion with a Chinese, however they are useless at English so might be a lot of misunderstandings.

 

[DaGaffer]

I think it works like this. Everyone is entitled to more than 1 child. But for the first child you get school etc paid (I think). But if you get 1 more child you will have to pay everything for both children. So no child support at all if you have more than 1. I've also been told twins etc are excused.

I also think you can apply for "rights/support" to a second child. Al tho I don't think they hand it out generously.
I picked this up from a discussion with a Chinese, however they are useless at English so might be a lot of misunderstandings.

I think there's the official policy and then the reality. What you describe above probably applies in the cities, but in the countryside there's lots of evidence of local commissars doing nasty stuff to people who have extra kids because it affects their targets. This is part of the reason why people in the countryside are level female babies to die in the woods; because in Chinese culture daughters cost money (dowries are still a big part of Chinese culture, especially in rural areas). Eventually new cultural norms will come out because the male/female imbalance is now making females more valuable.

 

[Embattle]

I tend to think a lot of people might get the wrong impression if they didn't watch the program last night, at least from reading some of the original comments here.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I'm presuming you mean the films. And the Twilight books.

Lord of the Rings was traditionally read by Unix admins, so isn't really an IQ lowerer.

Harry Potter's been enjoyed by all, though it was originally aimed at kids....

But I'm not far behind ya Waz

Traditionally, not now. Now it's creamed over by retards and dicks.

I'd rather cull you and the people who agree with this post.

We could do well without more grumpy moaning old women.

M

The problem there is that it wouldn't be a cull, it would be a few murders. The population would not see a significant enough drop in numbers. Nice idea, but it wouldn't be effective like mine would.

When your balls drop you will understand that children give your life meaning Wazz , it is afterall what we are here for. It is all we are meant to do and living past mid 30's was never the plan.

Hate children, never want them. Lindsey's not too keen on the idea either, and given our situations it would never be viable for us to bring a little one into the world. It would be pretty irresponsible if we did. And nothing can give meaning to life so don't give me that crap </philosphicial>

 

[Scouse]

When your balls drop you will understand that children give your life meaning Wazz , it is afterall what we are here for. It is all we are meant to do and living past mid 30's was never the plan.

My life has meaning without children. I don't need wailing little shits polluting the planet for me to feel better about myself.

I'd argue that we're not "meant" to do anything. Whatever we do is fine...

Also, scientific studies show that, although parents say they are happier because of their kids, the reverse is actually true.

Stick that one in your pipe and smoke it! Oh sorry, you can't around the kids

 

[Scouse]

Traditionally, not now. Now it's creamed over by retards and dicks.

Nah, just the films. I've not actually spoken to anyone who's actually bothered reading the lord of the rings since the films came out.

 

[old.Tohtori]

My life has meaning without children. I don't need wailing little shits polluting the planet for me to feel better about myself.

I'd argue that we're not "meant" to do anything. Whatever we do is fine..

Quite a day, i agree with Scouse too

The meaning of life is;

"To..."

That's it.

All those peopel saying you should do this or do that, are wrong. That's what YOU are meant to do, not what ALL are maent to do.

If you think otherwise, you're no better then other zealot priests etc

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Nah, just the films. I've not actually spoken to anyone who's actually bothered reading the lord of the rings since the films came out.

That'll be because most Scousers and Northerners can't actually read, so that doesn't make much difference up your way.

 

[Scouse]

That'll be because most Scousers and Northerners can't actually read, so that doesn't make much difference up your way.

Actually I live in Nottingham, but I think that applies more here. Retardation seems to increase the further South you go

 

[Raven]

It does actually, I lived in Surrey for 5 years, right spackers down there.

 

[Jeros]

Forced sterilization or massive infastructure changes are really needed.

The needs the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

 

[Jupitus]

It does actually, I lived in Surrey for 5 years, right spackers down there.

 

[Scouse]

The hippies are in power now, the children of the warpeeps, we're next and well, we might pull this weed-eating, peace loving, save every carrot'ing humanity out of the sh*thole yet.

Sounds like you've been taking a few of the substances you're miffed at

 

[Scouse]

I didn't say that 'sub-humans' shouldn't breed, but those who can't afford it shouldn't.

Actually. I'd rather we culled the spackers than simply let money be the deciding factor.

If we just use money as the deciding factor, then the world will be full of twats. (More so...)

Either way, education's the way forward. Not forced anything...

Forced sterilization or massive infastructure changes are really needed.

The needs the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

SHIT!

I was wrong all along. Your quoting of Star Trek has blown me away, from an intellectual standpoint, and I think you're right!

ALL HAIL JEROS!!1111!1!1!11!11111*








*Just to be clear, that was sarcasm. But if Star Trek is now being used to justify Nazi policy then the IQ of Freddyshouse must have dropped a bit...

 

[Jeros]

Sorry. mini troll to get me away from my revison

Still think its a good if unworkable idea tho and not nessesarly "nazi"

Overpopulation is already becoming a problem, and its just snowballing :/

 

[old.user4556]

stuff

Don't take it so personally, my post was not directed at you or your post.

 

[JBP|]

I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about.
Apparently in 2 years time, the ice caps are gonna be gone and the magnetic poles are gonna swap places, so the way i see it half the planet is gonna be under water or gravity will stop working, either way the planets population problems will get resolved and whatever happens the planet will still be here even if we aint

 

[old.Tohtori]

Sounds like you've been taking a few of the substances you're miffed at

I do a real mans substances, cigs, chicks and booze