Honk if Enchanter needs a nerf

[Happlo]

Originally posted by mustrum



Well if you can convince them to make every other caster in the game this uber, fine by me but im sure it wont be long before there is nothing but casters left in this game if it did happen. And probably a hell of a lot of assasins too (all getting qc stunned soon as they attack). I would feel very, very sorry for anything that wasnt a caster if they all had same power as a moon spec chanter. Didn't you check the screenshots :/?

Yeah I checked the screenies, but I also noticed they are all from keep defences which is where a manachanter excels And why nerf a class cause its good at what its meant to be good at? Is it cause theres some good players in Hib like Usp and Teador that can actually play to their strengths and win in certain senarios?

Every class has its strengths and weaknesses and can shine at different times, and this sounds more like a "Nerf Enchanters cause we cant win all the time when we try to take a keep" thread to me!!

Its just a good tactic that i'm sure all realms will be using anyway come next patch

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by - Pathfinder -
Enchanters with a PBAE would be fine - they'd be ice wizzies with faster cast time, but life sucks. However, they also get pets, speed, and a debuff for their own baseline DD; which results in them outdamaging specced nukers - good job there

After the nerf:
Way of the Moon:
PBAoE
Debuffs
Pet damage shield

Way of the Sun:
DD
Attack speed debuff
" shout
" AE shout

Enchantment Mastery
Pet
Pet buffs
Dam add
Speed

... and what Usp said.

It's funny... the whole "Manachanters are uber" phenomenon.
Tons of them running around in Hibernia at the moment - but how many high level Enchanters are there?
Not more than high level Eldritches...

Well then... if the magic realm shouldn't be allowed to have good casters - how about nerf armsmen?
Bloody plate armor, my warden has the hardest time doing good damage against your tinmen! Nerf it - it's an unfair advantage!

How about we nerf Infiltrators?
My Nightshade gets 2.2 spec points/level ... and a hilariously crappy DD - and Infils get 2.5 points/level and a crossbow!!
I want 2.5/L and a short bow!!

Or lets nerf Sorcerors! Speed, DoT, pet, mez, ae mez.....

Cut out the stupid whining... the game IS balanced for the most part.

When you've been hit by the nerfbat you will also whine that they should nerf the other classes

That's what it's all about.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Originally posted by Uncle Sick(tm)

Cut out the stupid whining... the game IS balanced for the most part.

Only a Hib could come up with that

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by - Pathfinder -


Only a Hib could come up with that

I guess so...

Sad that Albs can't come up with enough Ice wizards to defend their own keeps - to balance it out a little, eh?

 

[old.SadonTheGrey]

Enchanter looks good on paper, but it's not as great as you would expect really. At least that's what i think. Stun is bugged as hell, and if they purge my stun+debuff im screwed too. Baseline nukes are a real pain in the ass when it comes to power drain, so is stun. I'm forced to use lvl 36 stun (8 seconds) instead of lvl 46 stun (9 seconds)

Says it all really, you can still own using lower level spells!!! Gotta keep power consumption low, else you will run out of power after killing 10 albs!!!

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

The baseline DD does drain power like nuts - same with the stun (24+ power or so for the 8s stun).. you run out of mana in no time.

And that's a fact.

In PvE I use a lower level sun line DD just to keep the downtime at a minimum.

The problem with you Albs is, that you don't support classes that might be useful later on (Ice Wizards - how many of them complain on exactly these boards that they can't get a group?).

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Want to know something funny? Clerics also get baseline stun, though it's only 1000 range. What's even more funny, we can't choose which stun to use. Since we allready have way less power than mages, I can't sympathize with the power drainage argument

 

[Jenna.]

I pretty much laff @ "boohoo, we have no mana" also... its not like you're alone ~~

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by Uncle Sick(tm)
The problem with you Albs is, that you don't support classes that might be useful later on (Ice Wizards - how many of them complain on exactly these boards that they can't get a group?).

Umm just the one - Sharma, who moved to Hibbie land for a bit, found the same thing there and came back - now posts the same thing, 'cept about his friar

We do have a number of high level ice wizards, the best and busiest of them has to be my guildmate Meepthor. The other day he and a couple of AoE wizzies killed 30+ Mids trying to take back one of their keeps with minimal help from clerics/tanks.

There are quite a lot of lower level ice wizzies making their way through the ranks now. The problem they used to have is that no one in Alb knew how to hunt without mezzing adds ... but now that people have had experience levelling in Hibernia people are catching on...

 

[mustrum]

Originally posted by vidx


Actually, no, they aren't.

Bards are.

Secondary CC are Mentalists.

As for this thread...

LOL

Yes, Manachanters ARE powerful, yes. But the majority of the nerf calls come within 5 minutes of a stupid attack on a keep defended with Manachanters or Manaeldies.

In open RvR, an Manachanter is the same as, or worse off than, any other caster class.

Yes, we have baseline stun, wow! That means that we can stun one target and can maybe have them dead before the stun wears off. Or they can Purge and kill us unless we have MoC.

Pets do bugger all except interupt and chase stealthers in RvR. We have no ranged AoE, therefore pointless beyond a ranged DD in open RvR.

As for RM's... Well, I saw a Runie and a Healer take out one half of our Hurbury force yesterday before we managed to kill them. This in open RvR.

As for Enchanter baseline spells: if you cast them, you will know all about it. Power drain is amazingly high unless you have a Focus staff for that line for that level. Personally, I would give anything to be an Ice Wizzie. They have my main spell (pbaoe), a single bolt, and ranged AoE. Granted, casting time is slower for alot of the spells, but that's why Hib is defined as the Magical Realm.

Seriously, don't call for nerfs. Instead, look at your own realm, and see where the spells are that are present on the classes you are calling for nerfs for.

Albs call for nerfs because of the pbaoe: Ice Wizzies have it too. And don't gimme that lower damage crap. If you have 5 Ice Wizzies casting in the same area, it really won't make any difference whether they hit for 600 instead of the 700 that their Hib types hit for, they'll still be doing 3000 damage. So, go work on your energy resists, and Hibs will only be hitting for 600.

Stun? LOL both Midgard and Albion have insta stun, Hibs have NO insta CC.

Ok, so you are gonna turn round and say that we get it next patch? Ok, Mid gets pbaoe (SM, 6 points more base damage than the other 2 realms) and Minstrels get AoE mezz (castable from stealth, wtf?).

Guys, no more nerf calls, it just messes up the game when Mythic listen to the masses (Albion) and nerf something which is actually balanced if people were to actually plan their characters out.

vidx, i love how on forums you always say how 'chanters arent uber. Then in mIRC you always boasting how good you are

Alb has one class with insta stun and thats minstrel. Note that QC stun is almost as good as instant anyways, and minstrel cant do 500 dmg a hit (600 if you include a pet nuking each time as well)

Icewiz are much harder to level than enchanters because they dont have the versatility of a pet or anything like as powerful nukes. Although I am not an ice wiz expert, I think the only ranged aoe they have is a debuff/damage one, which ranges from somthing like 100 damage at the centre to about 10 damage near the edges.... Might be more might be less but its not a killing spell. You want to be an ice wiz though? Well respec is next patch... u really want to swap acc ?

And actually i made this post 5 miniutes after teador kindly brought to light the nuking power of enchanters. (wasn't a wizard meant to be a good nuker?)

vidx i don't actually know why you are opposing this since its so obvious you would be bias to it.

I dont see how you can moan about power costs when you can see how fast enchanter kills people. Why do you need power if they are all dead. Even if enchanter kills one person in a skirmish( by themself, that means they are good, if they are killing 3-4 people then thats pretty overpowered.

Enchanter might not be able to take on 3 enemies at once, but the nuking power of it is far too high. For a 50 spec firewiz to kill a level 50 tank it takes 5-10 nukes (depending on resists and if they have IP or not... for heros it can take even more than this IP + moose mode will probably have a firewiz using at least half a bar of mana... if the firewiz could survive that long - not really). Enchanter just debuffs and kills a lvl 50 tank in 3-5 nukes unless maybe they are stupidly highly buffed by a full enchance spec cleric. At which point if it was a 1v1 battle the enchanter could jus run back with his speed buff and the tank could do jack about it.

Alternitavely you can just stun and walk up to pbaoe. I'm not arguing about what this looks like on paper. I'm arguing about what it looks like in screenshots.

Please note vidx.... this isnt about pbaoe... which is pretty justified. Its having a single spec line which gets you pbaoe (very nice spell) and a debuff which makes your baseline nuke more powerful than other realm SPEC nukes, which makes enchanters speccing in their own nuke line seem kind of useless. This combined with a pet (although hibs claim pet is weak... they are a right pain in the arse to other casters and probably other classes as well... biggles said how he was being nuked to death by one from a stupidly long range) Run speed buff- not only benefits the group in rvr but also for soloing. and finally baseline stun. You can go on forever about how sucky your stun is. But if im stunned by a hib chanter then nukes for ~600 damage a shot (i have 9xx hp unbuffed... so 1.5 shots kills me) I cant do ANYTHING about this, as applies to most other classes. I could of course get to rr5 L6 to get purge, which with MoC I might have a chance of beating an enchanter, although unlikely because they nuke faster and harder than me. So every 30 mins and a lot of RPs later, firewiz comes close to the same power as an enchanter with 0 RP.

Read below.

Honk.

 

[mustrum]

Originally posted by Jenna.
I pretty much laff @ "boohoo, we have no mana" also... its not like you're alone ~~

Hibs seem to have the notion alb and mid spells don't cost mana

 

[old.SadonTheGrey]

Just a reminder, if ice wizards want to do any kind of nuking power, thye have to use their baseline spell too, this is exactly the same as yours except cold instead of heat. And before you say that ice wizards aren't the primarmy nukers, fire wizards are, elds are supposed to be your primary nukers, yet you even make your own nukers look gimped.

 

[andrilyn]

Originally posted by - Pathfinder -
Want to know something funny? Clerics also get baseline stun, though it's only 1000 range. What's even more funny, we can't choose which stun to use. Since we allready have way less power than mages, I can't sympathize with the power drainage argument

Blaen, Enchanter mana drains atleast twice as fast as cleric mana, the only thing that doesnt drain (atleast not at the level I was) alot of mana is PBAoE but stun drains way more mana then cleric stun (on % of your mana meter based).

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

How long does the healer insta stun last? And how much does it cost?

... just wondering...

 

[old.willowywicca]

Originally posted by mustrum



vidx, i love how on forums you always say how 'chanters arent uber. Then in mIRC you always boasting how good you are

Just becos usp is a good player isn't reason enough to nerf a whole class

/em swiftly evades every other point that has been made thus far

 

[<Wels>]

Originally posted by vidx


and Minstrels get AoE mezz (castable from stealth, wtf?).

Huh? So you are saying I will become visible when the spell lands?

 

[Ragnarok1978]

I know this may be a stupid quetion, but:

If enchanters rule, and like 40% of the population PvP servers are chanters, why are there so few (As in NONE) of them on the top RP lists for these servers?

To me, yes chanters are powerfull because they can PvE as uber as they can, they got great spells and practically only need 1 spellline. I am not convinced of their uberness in RvR or PvP tho, other than keepdefending and getting jumps on people.

Chanters are very versatile, and I mainly think people cry nerf out of envy when they compare chanters to themselves. I only played a chanter myself for a short while but one of my friends has a chanter as his main. I envy him a little when I compare him to my skald, but not much and the main reason I do it is because if his ease in PvE, if it was RvR/PvP I'd stick with my skald for sure.

 

[dakeyras]

The calls for enchanter nerfs are, I feel, a bit premature. Most complaints are about pbaoe in the lord room. Like most players I hate having to try storming a keep knowing that there are pbaoe casters in the Lord Room...but that will change.

What is happening atm on the US servers is very different from here. Here, a common tactic is to take an enemy keep, upgrade gates and guards, sit tight and farm the rp's. Defenders have all the aces. In the US version it is the defenders that are farmed. There is absolutely no point in trying to defend a keep. The way to deal with pbaoe casters camped in the lord room is simple. Bust down the doors and use gtaoe from the courtyard. Never again will we have to run up into a pbaoe farm

Once players stop dying in droves to pbaoe then the nerf calls will ease.

On a separate note...comments have been made regarding cast times, baseline stun etc, etc, etc. The Hibbies argue that the reasoning behind their 'uber' casters is that they are the 'magical' realm.

Hmmm

How, then, can the 'magical' realm also have the best pure tank and the best hybrid tank?

If that argument is to be valid then Midgard needs some changes to truly make us the 'melee' realm.

1. Give Warriors a 50% insta-heal granted by their God.
2. Give Thanes more Hits, more damage and fix Stormcalling
3. Give Warriors and Thanes access to a new armour type such as reinforced chain with a higher abs.
4. Fix Midgard 2handers to have the same dmg table as Albion and Hibernia.
5. Give Skalds 1.7 spec

Give Midgard this and I will accept the 'magical' realm argument.

 

[VidX]

Originally posted by &lt;Wels&gt;


Huh? So you are saying I will become visible when the spell lands?

As in, you can be stealthed, cast the spell from stealth, but once you start casting it you are no longer stealthed.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Beating down doors while the defenders spam you with GTAE will prove just as amusing, I imagine

 

[<Wels>]

Originally posted by vidx


As in, you can be stealthed, cast the spell from stealth, but once you start casting it you are no longer stealthed.

Pfft thats no good
I guess thats why it takes 5 sec to cast

 

[VidX]

It's still a case of:

/g Tank: Hold on, is that an Alb?
/g Bard: Where?
/g Tank: Well you have Briton ... Knight sticking out of your chest
/g Enchanter: Nah, can't be, didn't see him come near us
/g Drood: Don't Minstrels now have AoE mez?
/g Tank: They have stealth too don't they? so he could have just walked over without us seeing him...
/g Drood: Could be...
/g Eldie: Who's casting something?
/g Drood: Not me
/g Enchanter: Me neither
/g Bard: Hey! We're mezzed! Group purge please!
/g Druid: Used it already 5 minutes ago
/g Tank: Told you it was an Alb, the git's dancing around me!

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Try panning. It'll save you easily enough

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by vidx
It's still a case of:

/g Tank: Hold on, is that an Alb?
/g Bard: Where?
/g Tank: Well you have Briton ... Knight sticking out of your chest

At which point bard aoe mezzes torc, chanters pbaoes and tank goes into combat mode just in case.
Tank sticks minstrel, bard starts drum and keeps running in circles, chanter pbaoes.
Torc and 8 sbs caught into mezz watch with amusement.

 

[old.SadonTheGrey]

Hmm, I think I agree with what you say about pbaoe (either way all three realms get it, so it doesn't need a nerfing ), but that still leaves the 600 dmg nukes to the pet class. Ever been nuked by a cabalist or a spiritmaster? Then you will know that enchanters do far more, even more than all three realms primary nukers. Who cares about power drain, most wizards and eldritches will take so long killing something they'll die will a pretty much full powerbar. At least enchanters take something down with them.

And as far as Hibernia being the realm of magic and that being an excuse for the uber enchanters, then the person above talking about the Midgard melee classes is right. And Albion is the defence class, eh? Well, apart from plate which affects the tanks, we have nothing else going, perhaps we should have more defensive spells such as pbaoe on a second class for keep defence. How about higher AF buffs from clerics, etc??? As long as the enchanter has THREE of the most powerful tools, it simply isn't fair:

(a) Nuked for wwaaaaaaayyyyy more than any other caster
(b) A better pbaoe than any other class, including Hibernia's own damage dealer, the eldritch, and Albion's pbaoe'r, the ice wizard.
(c) Underhill zealots to interrupt other ranged classes, these guys are just overpowered compared to the warping, bugged simuclarums (?) and spirit warriors/fighters/whatever in other realms.

As well as that, they got a stun, speed etc. I think its sad, that not only are enchanters more powerful than other realms casters, that they also do much more damage than their own realm's magical damage dealer, the all enduring eldritch.

 

[old.Atrox]

I'll throw in an other Honk just becuz...

 

[old.SadonTheGrey]

Me too, <honk>

 

[j000 d000d]

Let's compare some stuff:

Cabalist:

-Body
Drain Life
Root
Hinder STR Shout

-Essence Manipulation (Body Specialization)
Drain Life
Hinder Attack Speed Shout
Disease
Transfer Health
Disease [AE]

-Matter
Damage over Time
Hinder DEX Shout

-Matter Manipulation (Matter Specialization)
Damage Shield [Pet]
Damage over Time
Nearsight
Damage over Time [AE]

-Spirit Animation
Summon Ally [Self]
Buff STR [Pet]
Buff DEX [Pet]
Heal [Pet]

-Vivification (Spirit Animation Specialization)
Buff Melee Dmg [Pet]
Buff Melee Speed [Pet]
Dismiss Pet for Power [Pet]
Buff CON & Buff STR [Pet]
Buff DEX & Buff QUI [Pet]
Hinder Body Resist
Hinder Spirit Resist
Hinder Energy Resist
Snare
Snare [AE]


Spiritmaster:

-Darkness
Direct Damage
Hinder DEX Shout

-Spirit Dimming (Darkness Specialization)
Drain Life
Mesmerize [PB] [AE]
Hinder DEX & Hinder QUI Shout [AE]
Mesmerize [AE]
Hinder Body Resist
Hinder Spirit Resist
Hinder Energy Resist

-Suppression
Hinder STR Shout
Root

-Spirit Suppression (Suppression Specialization)
Mesmerize
Hinder CON & Hinder STR Shout [AE]
Hinder Attack Speed Shout
Direct Damage [PB] [AE]
Transfer Health
Remove Mezmerize

-Summoning
Summon Ally [Self]
Heal [Pet]

-Spirit Enhancement (Summoning Specialization)
Buff DEX [Pet]
Damage Shield [Pet]
Buff STR [Pet]
Damage Shield [Self]
Resurrect


Enchanter:

-Way of the Moon
Damage Shield

-Empowering (Way of the Moon Specialization)
Damage Shield [Pet]
Direct Damage [PB] [AE]
Hinder Heat Resist
Hinder Cold Resist
Hinder Matter Resist

-Way of the Sun
Direct Damage
Stun

-Bedazzling (Way of the Sun Specialization)
Direct Damage
Hinder Attack Speed Shout
Hinder Attack Speed
Hinder Attack Speed Shout [AE]

-Enchantment
Summon Ally [Self]
Buff Movement [Group] [C]
Heal [Pet]

-Enchantment Mastery (Enchantment Specialization)
Buff DEX & Buff QUI [Pet]
Buff STR [Pet]
Buff Melee Dmg

----------------------------------------

Now let's make this some more clear, basically, the base spells for each class are:

(I'm leaving out the base spells every class has, such as summon/heal pet and AF shields)

Cabalist:
Drain Life
Hinder STR Shout
Hinder DEX Shout
Root
Damage over Time
Buff STR [Pet]
Buff DEX [Pet]

Spiritmaster:
Direct Damage
Hinder STR Shout
Hinder DEX Shout
Root

Enchanter:
Direct Damage
Stun
Damage Shield
Buff Movement [Group] [C]

As you can see, Cabalist has the same spells as the spiritmaster, but a DoT, Pet buffs, and a Lifedrain instead of a DD. Enchanter is totally different, DD, Stun, speed buff is the only useful stuff. Lifedrain is at first better than DD, and Stun and speed, well, i think the spells the Cabalist and Spiritmaster have instead of these are as good. Having base pet buffs are nice too, i've been in plenty of situations where my pet was too weak, but it hink that's just because i chose to spec low enchantments on my Enchanter.

Let's compare some specs:

Cabalist:
-Essence Manipulation (Body Specialization)
Drain Life
Hinder Attack Speed Shout
Disease
Transfer Health
Disease [AE]

-Matter Manipulation (Matter Specialization)
Damage Shield [Pet]
Damage over Time
Nearsight
Damage over Time [AE]

-Vivification (Spirit Animation Specialization)
Buff Melee Dmg [Pet]
Buff Melee Speed [Pet]
Dismiss Pet for Power [Pet]
Buff CON & Buff STR [Pet]
Buff DEX & Buff QUI [Pet]
Hinder Body Resist
Hinder Spirit Resist
Hinder Energy Resist
Snare
Snare [AE]


Spiritmaster:
-Spirit Dimming (Darkness Specialization)
Drain Life
Mesmerize [PB] [AE]
Hinder DEX & Hinder QUI Shout [AE]
Mesmerize [AE]
Hinder Body Resist
Hinder Spirit Resist
Hinder Energy Resist

-Spirit Suppression (Suppression Specialization)
Mesmerize
Hinder CON & Hinder STR Shout [AE]
Hinder Attack Speed Shout
Direct Damage [PB] [AE]
Transfer Health
Remove Mezmerize

-Spirit Enhancement (Summoning Specialization)
Buff DEX [Pet]
Damage Shield [Pet]
Buff STR [Pet]
Damage Shield [Self]
Resurrect


Enchanter:
-Empowering (Way of the Moon Specialization)
Damage Shield [Pet]
Direct Damage [PB] [AE]
Hinder Heat Resist
Hinder Cold Resist
Hinder Matter Resist

-Bedazzling (Way of the Sun Specialization)
Direct Damage
Hinder Attack Speed Shout
Hinder Attack Speed
Hinder Attack Speed Shout [AE]

-Enchantment Mastery (Enchantment Specialization)
Buff DEX & Buff QUI [Pet]
Buff STR [Pet]
Buff Melee Dmg

Let's sum some things up:

Cabalist has the BEST pet spec line, 4 extra pet buffs, resist debuffs, Snare and AE snare. Drain life is good, as is AE Disease. Yes, Disease is VERY useful. It has killed me plenty of times, most of the times while defending a keep, and you can't regen any health for 3 minutes. Very annoying and quite good. And I would exchange DD for lifedrain any day. Basically this class can have the strongest pet in the game. Especially with the Juggernaught RA. You could spec 46 Spirit 28 Body, 50% debuff for your lifedrain, that means quite some damage too, but i don't know anyone who ever tested this spec. Cabalist is basically the worst Direct Damage dealer, best pet dude, and has DoT/Nearsight too.

Spiritmaster has some good CC. AE mez and PBAE mez. The pet spec line seems pretty useless. The only real useful spell is the resurrect. Drain life AND AE mezz in 1 SPEC LINE. You could basically use MoC, PBAE mezz everyone around you, and start lifedrain. You won't die as long as the MoC is working. The only useful spells are the PBAE (actually very useful), remove mezz, mezz, and STR/CON debuff shout (very useful too, can instantly root any caster until he's dead) Spiritmaster has Evil Lifedrain, AE mezz and PBAE mezz in 1 spec line. That's very nasty.

Enchanter has the worst pet spec line of all. 2 pet buffs and a damage buff. Worst pet means a boost for the damage. Speccing Sun only gives you a useful nuke, very low powerdrain and good damage, fast casts too. AE attack speed shout can be good too for hibs, especially since Hibs have a lot of Wardens which all have 6 sec pbt. Mana has 2 useful spells, the PBAE and the Heat debuff. If you spec mana you have 2 powerful damage spells, PBAE and a single target nuke. It takes a debuff first before you can do good damage, so at least 3 seconds for your first nuke. Remember that this can be purged too as well as resisted. So it could take quite some time before you can actually do any damage, or the target has walked out of your range. Enchanter is the only pet class without Lifedrain, but the good damage on the spells makes up for it. No CC, except for stun. This means you will have to cooperate with other people a lot, or you can't do shit. Enchanter has the best damage of the pet classes, but the worst pet and least utility spells (nearsight/disease/debuffs)

------------------------------

In the end i think it's all quite balanced, Cabalist can nearsight the SM/Enchanter leaving those quite useless. Spiritmaster can mezz + lifedrain a Cabalist/Enchanter. Enchanter can take a Cabalist/SM out fast if they get the chance to, otherwise the SM/Cabalist kills him.

Spit your comments about this. But i think this game is balanced.

 

[VidX]

/cheer

As I have said before: look at what your realm has got, and realise that classes in other realms aren't too powerful, just that you don't have people willing to spec classes in your realm properly to counter them.

 

[rynnor]

Originally posted by old.SadonTheGrey
(a) Nuked for wwaaaaaaayyyyy more than any other caster
(b) A better pbaoe than any other class, including Hibernia's own damage dealer, the eldritch, and Albion's pbaoe'r, the ice wizard.
(c) Underhill zealots to interrupt other ranged classes, these guys are just overpowered compared to the warping, bugged simuclarums (?) and spirit warriors/fighters/whatever in other realms.

a - if they spec for best nuke their pbaoe will be gimped.
b- the forthcoming SM PBAOE is superior to any other realms.
c - the underhill pets are good - I especially like the healer one for groups and agree a ranged attack on a pet is much better in rvr.

Anyone who has gone pure mana deserves the realm points they get now since they are so reliant on being in the Lords room - once the GTAOE comes in many will lose interest in the class for rvr - still rocks pve tho

Think the three realms pet classes are pretty well balanced (as good as theyll get without giving em all exactly the same stuff - note - please dont do this