Holy Depleted Uranium, Batman: Another war thread?

[xane]

Originally posted by maxi--
Not at all true, any kid doing GCSE history could tell you about propoganda in WW2. Its still the same today, because propaganda works.

Sometimes it works too well, I still get people telling eating me carrots is good for eyesight.

 

[dysfunction]

US intelligence officer Major John Altman told Sky News correspondent Colin Brazier that Iraqi troops and militia were dressing up in civilian clothing, and were firing from tanks and artillery hidden in mosques and schools in the town.

And you wonder why so many civilians will be killed in this war with scum tactics like that!

 

[nath]

No doubt that's exactly what they expected/wanted you to think.

 

[Nos-]

Courtesy of maxi!

 

[dysfunction]

Originally posted by nath
No doubt that's exactly what they expected/wanted you to think.

So you are saying the Major is lying?

 

[nath]

That's not how it works. The media focuses on one aspect of the news to give you a certain skewed view of the entire thing. It could be that 97% of the civilian casualties is down to the bombing, and if the media focused on that remaining 3%, you'd be none the wiser.

 

[Lester]

Originally posted by xane
Are talking about the same BBC that has Alan Yentob as DG, being pro-Iraqi ?

Well, I'm just saying that from what I've seen the reporting is fairly even handed and in some cases (David Chater-sky?) sometimes a little too, well, if not exactly pro-Iraqi not pro-war that's for sure.

When all is said and done if they wanted to propagandise us then the last few days propaganda has been a very poor effort. To my view the war isn't going that great. News that 18 out of 22 Brits have been killed by FF or accidents and a Market being hit this morning is hardly doing the war effort much good. The western stations know that any lies/propaganda would soon be found out by the quality of international communications and the internet. So although I'm sure it goes on to some extent it won't be half as bad as the "other" side.

 

[dysfunction]

Originally posted by nath
That's not how it works. The media focuses on one aspect of the news to give you a certain skewed view of the entire thing. It could be that 97% of the civilian casualties is down to the bombing, and if the media focused on that remaining 3%, you'd be none the wiser.

Perhaps I should have expanded that quote. They were talking about the town of Najaf. Which they have not been bombing but having been trying to liberate with ground forces from the Militia Army who refuse to give up and use dirty tactics

 

[maxi--]

Originally posted by dysfunction
Perhaps I should have expanded that quote. They were talking about the town of Najaf. Which they have not been bombing but having been trying to liberate with ground forces from the Militia Army who refuse to give up and use dirty tactics

that *really* does look like you've quoted a BBC news reporter.

'liberate' with ground forces - thats funny


and sort of, nath's whole point.

 

[maxi--]

Originally posted by Lester
Well, I'm just saying that from what I've seen the reporting is fairly even handed and in some cases (David Chater-sky?) sometimes a little too, well, if not exactly pro-Iraqi not pro-war that's for sure.

When all is said and done if they wanted to propagandise us then the last few days propaganda has been a very poor effort. To my view the war isn't going that great. News that 18 out of 22 Brits have been killed by FF or accidents and a Market being hit this morning is hardly doing the war effort much good. The western stations know that any lies/propaganda would soon be found out by the quality of international communications and the internet. So although I'm sure it goes on to some extent it won't be half as bad as the "other" side.

the reporters are government, those supplying the news etc are JUST as smart, if not smarter than you(or I). They know how to play you, is what im saying, they cant make it too obvious here because that'd do more harm than good. Especially in the UK, in america not so.

it REALLY is stupid to think that in a war (that a HUGE majority of people dont support) there is no propaganda. Swaying public opinion is a top proirity, dont forget that.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by maxi--
it REALLY is stupid to think that in a war (that a HUGE majority of people dont support) there is no propaganda. Swaying public opinion is a top proirity, dont forget that.

Ironic really, you are talking about propaganda and swaying opinion then you quote a "huge majority" do not support the war, which is unsubstantiated.

As I said, propaganda is used by everyone.

 

[bodhi]

Originally posted by maxi--
it REALLY is stupid to think that in a war (that a HUGE majority of people dont support) there is no propaganda. Swaying public opinion is a top proirity, dont forget that.

A majority of Britons actually support the war now. You see most people have been able to stop moaning and get behind our troops in Iraq, but I see this concept is lost on some people.


But anyway, of course propoganda is being used. It's been used in every war since World War 2. It's hardly a new concept. What is far more important is who's propoganda do you listen to - Bush's or Saddams. This isn't really a hard question tbh.


As an aside it was great to see Michael Moore get jeered at the Oscars. Maybe the anti-war lot should take it as a hint to shut the fuck up now eh?

 

[maxi--]

Originally posted by bodhi
A majority of Britons actually support the war now. You see most people have been able to stop moaning and get behind our troops in Iraq, but I see this concept is lost on some people.

I didnt say otherwise, but still just cos I think this war is wrong, doesnt mean i dont want the troops to return home safely.

But anyway, of course propoganda is being used. It's been used in every war since World War 2. It's hardly a new concept. What is far more important is who's propoganda do you listen to - Bush's or Saddams. This isn't really a hard question tbh.

er?
neither country trying to rally its own peoples support is going to tell the truth, you dont have to listen to either, what makes you think that because i dont listen(meaning: agree) with Bush' bullshit arguments for war, that i listen to Saddams bullshit ?

As an aside it was great to see Michael Moore get jeered at the Oscars. Maybe the anti-war lot should take it as a hint to shut the fuck up now eh?

Im sure you'll agree not everyone whos pro-war has a clue what the FUCK Is going on, and I wish that you'd stop generlising, it makes you look like a clueless moron.

Moore getting jeered people at the oscars? why should that matter? again how can you assume these people jeering him, have a fucking clue whats going on?

 

[maxi--]

prop·a·gan·da ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prp-gnd)
n.
The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda

 

[bodhi]

Originally posted by maxi--


I didnt say otherwise, but still just cos I think this war is wrong, doesnt mean i dont want the troops to return home safely.

[/B]

Well, just to prove that it wasn't just me who saw this....

Ironic really, you are talking about propaganda and swaying opinion then you quote a "huge majority" do not support the war, which is unsubstantiated.

The 14th change of argument I've seen from the faggot liberal lefties in the space of a week. I really do wish they'd just give up and get back to their shelters.


I'm sure the rest of your argument was deeply interesting and compelling, but considering how much shite you managed to spout in the first line, I don't hold out much hope, so I'm going to go and fuck your mum instead.

 

[doh_boy]

I think the biggest danger has been complacency again. With all the talk of a quick war not everyone was in the right frame of mind.

Also the iraqis seem to be qutoing vietnam a hell of a lot added to the talk in the press of a 'guerilla war' in the cities gives me the impression this is going to get harder rather than easier.

It's nice to know that the first multi-million dollar contract has already been given for rebuilding. (the rebuilding of the port umm qasr)

 

[Lester]

And you can bet the French will be the first to get their nose in the trough.

 

[nath]

lol bodhi, you're so full of shit

 

[Chameleon]

Originally posted by maxi--
Not at all true, any kid doing GCSE history could tell you about propoganda in WW2. Its still the same today, because propaganda works.

The media in this country is not reporting a broad view. Their exact aim is to influence our views, thats why they're given permission to film B52s taking off, smiling iraqi children, and PoW.

No I don't agree. They film the b52's to give the iraq's an idea of what's coming, for example. The military do play propoganda games yes, but what was referred to in the original thread was not that at all. The media are not reporting to the uk in such a way as to influence public opinion. Think you missed my point.
The media seems to be reporting a broad view to me. I still sympathise with the anti-war brigade, but neither my opinion, nor their's (i hope) have changed as a result. The undecideds are making their mind up as things progress, one way or another .... but I dont see the influence being biased.

 

[Chameleon]

Originally posted by xane
Sometimes it works too well, I still get people telling eating me carrots is good for eyesight.

They are probably referring to the Beta-carotene

 

[nath]

Originally posted by Ch@meleon
The media are not reporting to the uk in such a way as to influence public opinion.

How can you be so sure?

 

[Chameleon]

Originally posted by nath
How can you be so sure?

Just my opinion nath. That's all any of us have. At least we can voice them freely here

 

[nath]

Fair do's guv.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Ch@meleon
They are probably referring to the Beta-carotene

Heh, no my point was WW2 British propaganda created the urban myth of "carrots help you see in the dark" to fool the Germans (or indeed the British) into thinking our pilots had superior night vision, whilst there may be some science behind it there is no established credibility, even so, it is still quoted today, over 50 years on, as a believed fact.

 

[Embattle]

The Pots & Pans project of WW2

 

[Chameleon]

Originally posted by xane
Heh, no my point was WW2 British propaganda created the urban myth of "carrots help you see in the dark" to fool the Germans (or indeed the British) into thinking our pilots had superior night vision, whilst there may be some science behind it there is no established credibility, even so, it is still quoted today, over 50 years on, as a believed fact.

Maybe it wasn't propoganda at all ...

"Beta-carotene is an orange pigment found in carrots and other fruits and vegetables. It belongs to a group of compounds called carotenoids and has antioxidant properties that may reduce the incidence of cardiovascular disease and certain types of cancer. It is also an important source of vitamin A, which is necessary for normal vision, bone growth, and tooth development. Scientists found that carrots with deeper shades of orange had higher levels of beta-carotene"

to quote someone else heh

 

[xane]

Yes, but you'd have to eat a _lot_ of carrots to affect your eyesight to any discernable degree.

 

[Lester]

And it would be no good for night combat as the enemy troops would see the orange glow from miles away..

 

[Perplex]

Originally posted by Ch@meleon
No I don't agree. They film the b52's to give the iraq's an idea of what's coming, for example. The military do play propoganda games yes, but what was referred to in the original thread was not that at all. The media are not reporting to the uk in such a way as to influence public opinion. Think you missed my point.
The media seems to be reporting a broad view to me. I still sympathise with the anti-war brigade, but neither my opinion, nor their's (i hope) have changed as a result. The undecideds are making their mind up as things progress, one way or another .... but I dont see the influence being biased.

Utter bullshit. Sorry.

What you haven't seemed to grasp is most of the 'breaking stories' that are fed to the western media come from the allied military command. They feed them ficticious/embellished stories to either a) win hearts and minds and/or b) confuse the enemy

Tariq Aziz defected? Utter bullshit - a) confuses the iraqi troops/population/command b) wins UK/US hearts and minds thinking we are fighting a just cause, and a quick end is in sight.

Found chemical weapons? Utter bullshit - b) wins UK/US hearts and minds by making us think the whole effort is justified

9000 Iraqi troops surrendered, then changed to 6000, then 5000, then 3000, and finally 2000 - utter bullshit - a) confuses and displaces morale of Iraqi troops/civilians/command b) wins the eharts and minds of us in the UK/US making us think they all want to be free, and a quick end is in sight.

Wake up, smell the coffee, open your eyes, etc

 

[Embattle]

A lot of it is to how the media over plays the information provided by the military command or the so called secret sources that they always seem to have....oh you mean Mr.Makebelieve and Mr. Bullshit