Hmmm if 2fg vs 1fg is lame why is 1fg vs 1 ok?

[Forau]

Originally posted by old.Talivar
As title says why is it ok for 1fg to steamroll a solo person but they whine when 2fg or more kill them?

because that person can, and will, add if you find a 8v8

 

[parlain]

As far as I can remember until SI the only buffbot used occasionally by FC groups was Arcthic's buffbot (now retired and humping about in SWG), usually to offset the perceived disadvantage of having a scout in group.
Before then we'd run with 1/2 clerics and a friar to make sure the grp was fully buffed (or as fully buffed as you can be with yellow/blue buffs)

I guess it was down to us being too lazy to level buffbots/have second accounts/have two computers and pre SI/have a windowing program that allowed two accounts to be run on a single computer. And the fact they we did alright and had fun without one.

It was only with the advent of SI and it's easy access to being able to run two accounts on a single machine that many many more groups started to run using buffbots and we had to cope and adapt;

So yes, pre-Rats/SI if you killed Noret or Ambu or Glaudien or Platha or anyone of our (ancient) clerics we'd lose a portion of buffs.

Same goes today, active buffbots within the guild aren't really THAT plentiful but since Rats plays so much as our sorc we usually have one; same goes for when Glaud/Gorre is sorcing or when we borrow a fish from BF (Can anyone see a pattern? Sorcs made buffbots to improve their survivability 0.5 seconds...)

So yeah we use buffbots but we done tend to throw a fit and sulk at atk when one isn't available (Rats excluded ^^)

As for Talivar's question: yeah it's quite harsh to kill solo'ers but any stealther/solo'er that we find tends to die; usually because Rats has a long memory when it comes to annoying stealthers that try to shaft him (figuratively speaking) during fights

Make buffs group only and I will be jumping for joy but of course Mythic won't because they'd lose income and that's bad for business

 

[Pin]

Re: Re: Hmmm if 2fg vs 1fg is lame why is 1fg vs 1 ok?

Originally posted by Forau
because that person can, and will, add if you find a 8v8

ahh.. So if you were to find an 8fg v 8fg fight, your 1fg would stand to one side and watch, right? And if you did so, you would expect to get a /bow and /salute afterwards and all merrily go on your way?

edit: Actually the reason why you do it is probably more that it ticks you over another 250rps for free and has nothing to do with whether he'd add on your fight, as I know your NP group couldn't give a toss about a soloer adding on your 8v8.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by hotrat
The difference between a group who use a buffbot and a group not using one is very small (unless your a mid group with only 1 shaman).

come again?


a buffbotted group is nuts compared to a non-bb'ed one.

 

[Garbannoch Nox]

Originally posted by Arnor
come again?


a buffbotted group is nuts compared to a non-bb'ed one.

depends from which realm tbh - hibs have most yellow buffs even without BB and in a hib mage group druids are not first targets hence buffs wont drop; things are different in other realms though;

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
depends from which realm tbh - hibs have most yellow buffs even without BB and in a hib mage group druids are not first targets hence buffs wont drop; things are different in other realms though;

It more depends on the type of group, not the realm, and without bots you would have Bard bases who is an early target. If it's a tank group, druids would be targetted next.

For Mid, the Healers are usually first target, so again bases would drop but not specs. And after the Sorc, the Clerics usually die, so buffs drop on the alb group.

Yes, for caster groups, it's usually true that the buffers are not at the top of the list.

 

[jox]

Originally posted by Pin
As far as I can see your (not just you Mag, but the general 'fg v fg only' community) complaints about stealthers and adds just boil down to egotism and snobbery.

Couldnt have said it better myself :>

 

[-Wedge-]

That depends on definition. If your group is engaged in combat, that doesn't mean you own the fight. And it doesn't mean that they are being lame, or leechers by killing someone engaged in that fight.

If you lookup leech in the dictionary, you'll find this:

One that preys on or clings to another; a parasite

Which exactly describes what a stealther does when adding to a fight...

This is perhaps what 'stealthers' do, and why I hate them... But it IS leeching, no matter how you put it... Its called this in PvE, and dont see why it is so much different in RvR...

If there was a possibilty of an early death, then perhaps it wouldnt be so 'bad', but at least archers can fairly safe get rps off other peoples fights... Assasins have it a bit harder, but can still relative safe pick off support charaters....

They are playing to have fun so just ignore them.

I like this one, as a merc I cant really 'ignore' them now can I? Its not like I can say, oh I see 4 archers and 8 assasins, I'll take another route... Which is something I can chose to do with non-stealthers...

End result is that most stealthers dont fight fair, which is probably a 'class design' but that doesnt matter... It does (for me and my group) open hunting season on them... Cant wait till TOA, givz our group see-hidden

Not all stealthers are 'bad' though, Solidus gives me fair fights and he's damned hard on his own for my merc... Even with IP up, against him it can still go either way... Even if he misses PA...

 

[alme]

once up on a time we left all stealthers, and often grps of 2-3 ppl. But now weve realised they all add like fuck when they get a chance ie we kill em if we get the chance. If they all would stop adding, i wouldnt mind leaving em. But as it is now theyre all going down.

for example, once we left whyp alone in odins (think it was whyp, some reaver atleast.) 10 sec after a fg comes, ofc the reaver adds. Soooo insta gank here we come.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Which exactly describes what a stealther does when adding to a fight...

It also exactly describes what your fg does when it comes upon a stealther v stealther fight.

Originally posted by -Wedge-
I like this one, as a merc I cant really 'ignore' them now can I? Its not like I can say, oh I see 4 archers and 8 assasins, I'll take another route... Which is something I can chose to do with non-stealthers...

Sorry, I didn't mean "ignore them" as in "do nothing about them". I meant more along the lines of "stop fucking bitching about them on IRC and forums, or ingame sends, yells, etc. It's part of the game, move on."

Originally posted by -Wedge-
End result is that most stealthers dont fight fair, which is probably a 'class design' but that doesnt matter... It does (for me and my group) open hunting season on them...

As I said before, it's not that stealthers don't fight fair as you don't either. You can view stealthers as scum of the earth who must die for interfering with how you want to play the game. I prefer to view them as people playing a game for fun, just like myself. If I die to them, I may be annoyed for a short period, but that passes. And they may also be happy for a short period. The universe is still in equilibrium, etc

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Cant wait till TOA, givz our group see-hidden

So you see them like they have -22 stealth (thus see them about 300 units away or something)... Until they get similar items and have +22 stealth. woot.

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Not all stealthers are 'bad' though, Solidus gives me fair fights and he's damned hard on his own for my merc... Even with IP up, against him it can still go either way... Even if he misses PA...

Few of them are 'bad'. I don't care if they are grouped, or attack me 8v1. The only ones that turn my stomach are the perpetual whiners, but that goes for stealth and non-stealth.

Originally posted by Pin
Just put another necklace on and have a cup of tea, there's plenty more fun around the corner.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by alme
for example, once we left whyp alone in odins (think it was whyp, some reaver atleast.) 10 sec after a fg comes, ofc the reaver adds. Soooo insta gank here we come.

Well, I needed like 5k for RR7 that day, so wasn't quite feeling myself

You had your revenge the next 2 ports anyway... Until I killed Div out of your fg when you tried the 3rd time

(oh, and it was 2.5fg albs that came, not a fg)

edit: and I had fun being punished aswell as slapping Div, so it was win/win for me

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by Pin
Yes, the difference is that the group is 8 players with buffbot buffs, instead of just 1.

I am talking one buffbot which is one spec buff per person. A soloer using a buffbot doesnt get 1 slightly better spec buff, they get the whole lot.

Originally posted by Pin
Just as there's a MASSIVE difference between a high RR char fighting a low RR char. Or a char with full SC fighting someone in DF armour, etc. Nobody has claimed any different.

Ok we just made 3 points we all agree with being buffed is probably the biggest advantage of the 3 but lets move on.

Originally posted by Pin
Very small? How is it a small difference when in 1 case you kill the Cleric/Druid/Shaman and the group loses half their buffs, or nobody loses any of their buffs?
How is it a small difference when you're all +100-200 hp, tanks have +100ws, etc, etc. It's not a small difference.

If you kill both clerics in our group we will lose all our base buffs and half our specs, unless we run with a friar. A buffbot only provides us with 1 spec buff each (well 4 for me but its my bot and im first to die mostly anyway ).

Originally posted by Pin
If it was a very small difference, you wouldn't have to use yours

Well like Parlain said I use mine to keep me alive that extra 0.5 second, it does make a difference but most of the time when we lose a fight it wouldn't matter if we had buffbot buffs or normal buffs.

Originally posted by Pin
But of course this is not going to happen.

Sad but true

Originally posted by Pin
And just like you, I used to always RvR unbuffed, and just like you there comes a point where it's just not fun to fight and die all the time because the opponent is buffed, so I use a bot now. There's nothing shameful in using a buffbot, it's just another of those choices that we, as players, get to make. (Though I will always throw an extra /hug to people who die to me unbuffed).

Well I still don't use a bot when I solo on my minstrel, I just can't stand to fight people when im buffed and there unbuffed, its no challenge and no fun. However a lot of the times I face buffed opponents and I stand very little chance to win which does get annoying

Originally posted by Pin
And if you ever find a fight where all 16 of those players think it was fair and make no excuses about the defeat, nor brag about the victory then you're very lucky indeed

They are quite rare but within reason I would say at least one a day. I mean any fight vs a chanter or savage I would immediately deam unfair to us but with a few RA's things can balance up again and the fight can be very fun for both sides. mIRC usually tells me if the other side enjoyed it as much as I did

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by hotrat
Ok we just made 3 points we all agree with being buffed is probably the biggest advantage of the 3 but lets move on.

We agree that there is a big difference made from buffs. But we don't seem to agree on whether this is a moral issue, or not.
If I can be buffed, I will be buffed if I so choose and I fail to see anything wrong with those coming from a bot, or other source. And I see nothing wrong with anyone else doing similarly.

Originally posted by hotrat
Well I still don't use a bot when I solo on my minstrel, I just can't stand to fight people when im buffed and there unbuffed, its no challenge and no fun. However a lot of the times I face buffed opponents and I stand very little chance to win which does get annoying

Well, a Minstrel has benefits such as stealth, speed and CC. These enable to you pick and choose most of the fights you have. If the fight is unbalanced against you through buffs (or whatever), you can pull out most times at your leisure and pick another fight.
As for fighting unbuffed people while buffed? Well, it is very rare that I ever find such fights. Opponents are almost always either buffed, or outnumber me, or both and again, I have no moral issue in fighting as such.

And should someone come along who is unbuffed and just wants a 'more fair' fight I'll happily drop my buffs and fight them on their terms if they let me know.

 

[lac_desariel]

I started reading this and stoped, I agree 8 v 1 is poor and 2fg v 1fg can be fun and frustrating, nothing better than a fun fair fight,

and As for Poon, why the personal vendeta of late against me and now my guild? got issues pm me plz and talk like Adults or is it some kid thing im to old for?

However I think people me included go in larger numbers to survive, Example being..

We was runing a GOL caster group as 2fg

we totaled 4 ice wizz 4 clerics 2 sorc 2 mincer 2 pally and 2 theurg thats both the same, my group was me and iorlas both RR7.5 + ice wizz, we meet poons group he was 1fg.. fair fight not realy we out number 2 - 1

outcome after we cage perfectly 4 x moc pbae and 2 VP later you see not 1 dead mid tank.. and 16 dead albs... in this world as a caster you cant win Vs high RR mids as a General, yes we have won and been known to win 1fg vs 2 against the odds but facts are facts..
another example, every one knows a high RR wizard group can pack a punch and end a fight fast, yet we meet a RR2 chanter group and we cant hurt em cos boad...

lifes hard... 2 options quit and whine or deal with it

 

[duact]

taking baod as rr2 chanter is kinda stupid imo

 

[ghostfeet]

tbh pin owned u all

 

[lac_desariel]

Originally posted by duact
taking baod as rr2 chanter is kinda stupid imo

just an example, but you see my point? boad kills casters, both mid and alb, when i moc a Brehon luri and VP i expect him to die and they dont, yet i pbae 3 luri and qc pbae and they all 3 die with out boad,

we got bof, i assue mid have same issues with trying to kill plate wears and bof, i dunno i rarely play my paladin

 

[old.Filip]

Pin owns all

I have been puzzeled by this concept fair figth in daoc for sooo long...

In the end, a fight is very rarely seen as 'fair' from both sides, but can be viewed as different levels of fun.

if i had i sig that would be in it

Filip
Minser/Theug of HB...