Hmmm if 2fg vs 1fg is lame why is 1fg vs 1 ok?

[duact]

sounds fotm

 

[-Wedge-]

fg vs solo == lame too... Except when its against stealthers !

We sometimes leave solo'ers, not always though... But we do sometimes... Depends a lot on if we got zerged shitloads and hate 'your realm' And if that person attacks us or not... And if I know that person solo's a lot or not...

I'll always kill stealthers if/when I see them with my FG, they add to fights and are generally annoying and should thus all DIE! Preferably a horible death too... And never 'solo' anymore either, at least not my merc...

Being outnumbered sucks, depending on how good the enemies are, it sucks a bit or a lot

2fg brehon's suck a bit, but it gives a nice feeling when your resting to get power back after you killed them all

2fg defenders suck a whole lot, luckely we dont have 2fg of them yet... But /release and rebuff sucks

 

[old.Talivar]

Isnt much fotm on my server karate thats the joy of some US servers Ofc some US servers are a bit like excal but not all.

 

[Tyka]

Soloers should be steamrolled because they lack socialising skills, and this game is a mmorpg btw if some ppl have not realised that yet.

 

[old.Talivar]

I talk all the time to ppl and socialise ingame just because im solo doesnt mean im unsociable

 

[Tyka]

Was more referring to stealthers dunno what you're talking about.

 

[Vodor]

Role savage imo, you get given a fotm guild and 2 personal healer minions at lvl 50

Poon

 

[old.Talivar]

All my original point was ,is why is killing a solo person any better than 8fg killing 1fg as tyka said its a social game and i imagine some guilds have enough for many fg.

 

[Vodor]

Originally posted by old.Talivar
All my original point was ,is why is killing a solo person any better than 8fg killing 1fg as tyka said its a social game and i imagine some guilds have enough for many fg.

Like GOL?

xD

Poon

 

[Khalen]

Why would anyone go solo:
- The challenge and guts to go alone. (and some even choose to go more solo)
- More rps per kill (less work if you can kill solo ofcourse to gain amount of rps).
- Not depending on others (we all know the AFK-every-5-mins or lagging-when-incoming people or the all so famous people who don't listen to the groupleader/raidleader)


Think these are some of the main points why someone would go solo. I'm known by a lot of my realm in a good and bad way so socializing ain't really the problem of not getting a group. People just started with certain group setups and hardly wanna move in other kind of groups.

Solo stealther: Kill on sight imo. They will pass info on or interrupt in battles.
Solo other classes: Depends, if they can pose a threat now or later then ofcourse annihilate em.

8 FG vs 1 FG : If that 1 FG kills some I wouldn't even complain. Getting nicer rps then your enemies and you could improve your tactics vs. zergs. It's not impossible to defeat 8 FG. It just takes a lot of power, tactics, mezzing, stunning, etc. etc. But as I said as long as you kill something I wouldn't complain. Ofcourse a 2 FG vs 1 FG is far better odds for that 1 FG then vs 8 FG. But if you encounter so much it ain't a shame you loose. There's nothing to learn in a zerg imo. Most people just do stuff, spam buttons and don't worry about real tactics. IMO they will never progress to the next level (that of finding the right group with right kind of players).

I've read something about in WoW's pvp system. That they wanted to make it more possible that people of equal skills can battle each other instead of the "farming" of lower skilled ones. Sounds like an interesting development imo.

 

[nightsorrow]

<enter crap here>






Poon ( i typ my name here so i lok cool on BW forums)


<sigh>

 

[Vodor]

Originally posted by nightsorrow
<enter crap here>






Poon ( i typ my name here so i lok cool on BW forums)


<sigh>

If you are going to try and mock then at least check your spelling you peenarse

Poon

 

[NightyP]

chose a Reaver talivar? excellent choice

 

[old.Talivar]

hehe well i had great inspiration

 

[duact]

what does exioce give u for power farming posts on bw poon?

Poon

 

[Pin]

Well, I see many opinions already in this thread, most of which I think are stupid. But here's a few of mine (most of which you'll all think are stupid tooo, but who cares, right?)

This game was not built for people to solo either PvE, nor RvR.
This game was not built for people to run duo, or half-groups, or full groups, or 2 groups, or 4, 6, 8, 15, 30 groups and a cheerleader either PvE, nor RvR.

This game was made for people to choose what class they want to play, choose how they want to play and choose with how many others they want to play.

Myself, I spend a lot of my playtime solo or duo. I've done so with many different kinds of character, whether stealther, caster or tank (not tried with a healer class yet, but you never know ). That is my choice. If I get killed by a vastly larger number (a.k.a. zerged) then I, myself, are largely to blame and crying about it would just be silly.

I also spend a fair amount of my playtime running in groups of 8 (usually filled with friends from my guild). That is our choice. If we get killed by a vastly larger number (a.k.a. zerged) then we, ourselves, are largely to blame and crying about it would just be silly, etc, etc...

And conversely, if you choose to run in a larger number than I, that is your choice. You play the game how you wish and it is not my place to criticise you for doing so.


Furthermore, being (vastly) outnumbered in this game does not automatically mean you 'lose'. Even though the odds may be against you, sometimes you manage to kill the larger number of enemies and you feel good. Sometimes you die, but still can feel good about the fight you put up. It all depends on the standards and goals you set yourself.

eg 1. If <Dem Hibbies> know there's 8fg enemies roaming somewhere they'll attempt to take them out with their 1fg and occasionally succeed. Other times they may take half of them out before being overwhelmed and still feel good and go back for more. Others (yes, rarely) they may just die on their arses to the zerg, but will still go back for more because they choose to and enjoy playing like that.
eg 2. If I know there's a fg enemies roaming somewhere I'll attempt to take them out solo/duo and sometimes will succeed. Other times I may take half of them out before being overwhelmed and still feel good and go back for more. Others (yes, commonly ) I'll die on my arse, but will still go back for more because I choose to and enjoy playing like that.

Originally posted by Vodor
Because its a team game, if your not in a team then thats your problem

Indeed. And if you're in the 'wrong size' of team, that is also your own problem, not the other guy's. In this game a team can be as few as 'me, myself and I', or as many as a whole realm.

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
There are specific classes that were designed to solo. They are called stealthers. They have an ability called stealth to avoid fgs.

If stealthers were specifically designed to solo they wouldn't be allowed into groups at all. They have an ability called stealth to increase their chance of moving around undetected. This does not mean they have stealth to avoid fgs, nor that they should do so, though they may choose to if they wish.

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
a group has 8 slots; and it has 8 slots for a reason: to get in healers, mages, tanks; ie everyone that is not capable of soloing unlike assassins and archers;

As I said above, I solo with mages and tanks aswell as an assassin, and I am reasonably capable of doing so with all. You don't 'need' the rest, they just open up different options for you.
Why does a group have 8 slots? Why did a quickbar used to have 8 slots? Basically it could be viewed as an arbitrary decision, and the number 8 was chosen as it's the largest power of 2 less than 10. There is no rule that says you must fill it, and there is no rule that says you cannot have another group alongside you.

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
and as I told you on IRC - how often do you see a fg attacking 8fg. But trust me every run to emain i get shot by 5 archers and PAed at least twice and if there happen to be non stealthers they will attack also ofc

I find it strange that you say this as I frequently see you attacking such numbers with your single group, so why shouldn't archers and assassins attack you? Why should they just watch you go by? Why should they just watch you fight another group of people? You chose to be there, they chose to be there, you and they can choose to attack whoever you wish.
Or look at the other side. If they were to stand to one side and just watch you fight and win, would you pack up and move on, or would you kill them first? Don't try to take any moral high-ground on this if you don't show any respect to people who didn't 'interfere with your fight'.

Originally posted by -Wedge-
fg vs solo == lame too... Except when its against stealthers !
We sometimes leave solo'ers, not always though... But we do sometimes... Depends a lot on if we got zerged shitloads and hate 'your realm' And if that person attacks us or not... And if I know that person solo's a lot or not...
I'll always kill stealthers if/when I see them with my FG, they add to fights and are generally annoying and should thus all DIE! Preferably a horible death too... And never 'solo' anymore either, at least not my merc...

Quite a few elitest/snobbish remarks there too. It's an individual's decision of what they want to do and how they want to play. If a stealther adds on 'your fight', that is the choice of the individual, not the class-type and he is perfectly entitled to make whichever decision he chooses.
If you choose to kill a soloer (stealther, or not) with your full group, that is also your choice, but trying to make some distinction based on his/her class-type because others previously 'ruined your fair fight' is silly.
As far as I can see your (not just you Mag, but the general 'fg v fg only' community) complaints about stealthers and adds just boil down to egotism and snobbery. If you win 'because of them' you just feel you lose bragging rights over the enemy and if you lose, vice versa.
(Or is it just about the RPs? I doubt it though)

I could make many further comments about stealthers, but I'll leave them.



So...

Originally posted by old.Talivar
As title says why is it ok for 1fg to steamroll a solo person but they whine when 2fg or more kill them?

The only people who are 'not ok' are the ones who constantly whine and those who believe themselves to be much better than others.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by nightsorrow
<enter crap here>






Poon ( i typ my name here so i lok cool on BW forums)


<sigh>

you need help

 

[-Wedge-]

Originally posted by Pin
Quite a few elitest/snobbish remarks there too. It's an individual's decision of what they want to do and how they want to play. If a stealther adds on 'your fight', that is the choice of the individual, not the class-type and he is perfectly entitled to make whichever decision he chooses.
If you choose to kill a soloer (stealther, or not) with your full group, that is also your choice, but trying to make some distinction based on his/her class-type because others previously 'ruined your fair fight' is silly.
As far as I can see your (not just you Mag, but the general 'fg v fg only' community) complaints about stealthers and adds just boil down to egotism and snobbery. If you win 'because of them' you just feel you lose bragging rights over the enemy and if you lose, vice versa.
(Or is it just about the RPs? I doubt it though)

Well Stealthers are often hardly the deciding factor in a fg vs fg fight, unless there's more then 3-4 of them... Its more a personal issue with them as I'm tired of being 'zerged' by them when I'm solo... So seeing (most) dont let me live (or give fair fights) when they are with supperiour numbers, I wont let them run away either...

And it is a fact that they do leech when ever they have the chance

Same goes for other solo'ers, if they show respect to me when I'm solo (and their grouped), then I'll try to respect them...

There's no code that says : THIS IS HOW YOU PLAY... But you can probably guess yourself if something is fun or not... Getting ganked by supperior numbers usually isnt fun... Be this solo, be this as a small group (duo or 4), or as a fg (or even 2 fg)...

My view on stealthers isnt based on if they add or not, I just hate them because most dont give me a fair fight when I'm solo... And thus have to die when I can kill them

 

[Snake.ster]

very cool post Pin, totally agree with everything u said , and so do my irl m8's who play too, ofc we always swear and such when u get killed by higher numbers, but then theres always the good feeling u get when u take down 1 of em b4 u die.

should hear us on teamspeak , specially me , i swear like a trooper , i sometime embarrass the girl who joins in with us.

so play as u want, let others play how they want, dont whine about it, pick yourself up , brush the dust of and get back out there, its only a game anyway.

 

[zoia]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
fg vs solo == lame too... Except when its against stealthers !

We sometimes leave solo'ers, not always though... But we do sometimes... Depends a lot on if we got zerged shitloads and hate 'your realm' And if that person attacks us or not... And if I know that person solo's a lot or not...

I'll always kill stealthers if/when I see them with my FG, they add to fights and are generally annoying and should thus all DIE! Preferably a horible death too... And never 'solo' anymore either, at least not my merc...

Tsk tsk, i still remember the day about 6 of you chased me from hmg to Bled.
You even made it on /as when guards where pulled by the pets your thurg sent after me in an attempt to kill me.

It can be annoying being killed over and over again by FGs when you solo, but it's the way i like to play so i have to live with it.
If Odin's get to crowded, i go somewhere else.
What's really annoying is when 4-6 luris pop up and start gnawing at my leg

 

[hotrat]

Well Pin what annoys me with stealther adds is they have the exact same buffs as I have yet I do not see any buffing class in their group.
If buffs were given range stealthers would think twice before adding as their damage and surviveability would be far less.

Solo players would then be more inclined to fight each other rather than to leech rp's from a group vs group fight.

I of course play the game for fun, and for me a fun fight is a fair fight, if 2 or 3 stealthers or another fg add onto my enemy I don't feel I lose "bragging rights" I feel annoyed that what was a fun and fair fight suddenly got ruined. Same goes for if we get adds.

 

[Runolaz]

Pin once again you see rigth through all the BS in this thread. I respect you as an extreamly skilled player, but also for your statements on many aspects of this game. If we had more ppl like you and less egotism and snobbery this game would be even better. I'm not so articulate with english as you are, so I'm not gonna repeat all you said, cuz that is the way i view the game too.

I prefere to go solo with my SB, it's my choice and I accept everything that comes with that. I do prefer to make 2xFG's FoM rather than 1xFG, cuz a) we never get the rigth classes, b) low RR, cuz many of us are cassual gamers when it comes to RvR and c) I hate to say no to guildies wanting to join. This is our choice as a guild and what other ppl think of it I don't care.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Well Stealthers are often hardly the deciding factor in a fg vs fg fight, unless there's more then 3-4 of them... Its more a personal issue with them as I'm tired of being 'zerged' by them when I'm solo... So seeing (most) dont let me live (or give fair fights) when they are with supperiour numbers, I wont let them run away either...

Well, if I'm solo with my Reaver, what's a fair fight with stealthers? 1v1? I don't think so. 3v1 would be more fair (or maybe 4 depending on RR, etc). If I'm with Nightpetal or Justinian, it would take ~8 of them before I would call it a fair fight.

So, how would it be determined if it was a fair fight, or not? Your definition of fair will almost certainly differ from thiers. Your merc is a pure tank in chain, who deals massive damage, and 2.5x their hitpoints (if IP). They are lower hp, lower defense, lower damage characters. And as I know who you mean, you are higher RR than they. I wouldn't say it was fair if they attacked you 1 at a time. I wouldn't say it was fair if they let you know they are there and lose their element of surprise. If 2 assassins land PA on you, you might not stand a chance and claim it as an unfair fight and that they were lame, etc. But if one or both fail to land it for whatever reason, you might kill them both, so was it really an unfair fight?

The same thing applies to larger-scale fights. Who's to say a fight was a fair one? If you think your group did well winning a fair fight vs another group they might not see it as such. Their RAs not up, yours were or they had an LD, or whatever. In the end, a fight is very rarely seen as 'fair' from both sides, but can be viewed as different levels of fun.

Originally posted by -Wedge-
And it is a fact that they do leech when ever they have the chance

That depends on definition. If your group is engaged in combat, that doesn't mean you own the fight. And it doesn't mean that they are being lame, or leechers by killing someone engaged in that fight.

Long ago, when I started my assassin, they were billed as being able to penetrate enemy lines undetected and kill key members of their army. It's something I enjoyed doing. It was one the reasons I played my assassin for so long, not for the stealther v stealther fights at the usual camp spots. But why should this be restricted to keep seiges? Why should they be praised when they kill a caster on the wall, but berated when it's in open field?
It just comes down to attitude and ego. Play to have fun. They are playing to have fun so just ignore them (and sure, in many cases fun = rps, but there's hardly anything wrong with that).

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Same goes for other solo'ers, if they show respect to me when I'm solo (and their grouped), then I'll try to respect them...
There's no code that says : THIS IS HOW YOU PLAY... But you can probably guess yourself if something is fun or not... Getting ganked by supperior numbers usually isnt fun... Be this solo, be this as a small group (duo or 4), or as a fg (or even 2 fg)...

Fun for you is rarely going to be fun for the rest of the playerbase. And it's their choice if they want to sacrifice their own fun so that you can have some. It might be that they hadn't seen anything for an hour and just wanted the RPs for a RR ding so they could quit and go to sleep. If you're killing the only enemy in the zone they might view you as ruining their fun, who knows.

Originally posted by -Wedge-
My view on stealthers isnt based on if they add or not, I just hate them because most dont give me a fair fight when I'm solo... And thus have to die when I can kill them

My view on most stealthers I meet is that most will try to give me a fair fight, (or at least on their terms). I kill them because I'm an RP-horny bastard
Of course, there's some who don't want anything to do with a fair fight, who just want to kill everything that moves and never have to die, release, re-port and re-buff, who will only attack people who they have no chance of losing to. But there's people like this roaming in non-stealth groups aswell, whether they're choosing their 'un-losable' fights due to numbers, or realm rank. I see little wrong with any of these groups, and depending on which way the wind is blowing, they're classes as 'zergers', or 'overpowered', or 'leet', or whatever by the people they beat.


And I'm not trying to say I'm some kind of angel either, I've added on fights, etc. I sometimes lose my temper. I get annoyed when groups run me or someone I'm fighting over, etc. But it only usually lasts a couple of seconds. Just put another necklace on and have a cup of tea, there's plenty more fun around the corner.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by hotrat
Well Pin what annoys me with stealther adds is they have the exact same buffs as I have yet I do not see any buffing class in their group.
If buffs were given range stealthers would think twice before adding as their damage and surviveability would be far less.

Sorry? So the buffs your guild groups have while roaming are all provided by active members of your group? And those of JH, NP, CE, DH, LA, VGN, BF, TB, SS (yup, we have shitloads of buffbots), etc, etc, etc?

Are you saying that by killing your Clerics/Druids/Shamans/etc that your group members will lose all their buffs?

Somehow I really don't think so.

Originally posted by hotrat
Solo players would then be more inclined to fight each other rather than to leech rp's from a group vs group fight.

Why would that make any difference?

For the majority of the playtime with my Inf I was unbuffed, the most viable targets for me were weak ones within a group. I killed casters and healers by the bucketload and _rarely_ fought other stealthers (basically due to there not being many of them though).

Removing buffs from a solo assassin won't stop him killing your sorc as you run around in a fg fight, it might just mean that he has to land a good PA to get away with it.

 

[Aybabtu]

Originally posted by hotrat
Well Pin what annoys me with stealther adds is they have the exact same buffs as I have yet I do not see any buffing class in their group.
If buffs were given range stealthers would think twice before adding as their damage and surviveability would be far less.

You telling me that you don't have a bb waiting at Atk? i know alot of groups run with bb at the telekeep

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by Pin
Sorry? So the buffs your guild groups have while roaming are all provided by active members of your group? And those of JH, NP, CE, DH, LA, VGN, BF, TB, SS (yup, we have shitloads of buffbots), etc, etc, etc?

Are you saying that by killing your Clerics/Druids/Shamans/etc that your group members will lose all their buffs?

Somehow I really don't think so.

Pin there is a MASSIVE difference between a group using a buffbot and a soloer using one and you know it. There is also a MASSIVE difference between a soloer who has a buffbot fighting a soloer who does not have one. The difference between a group who use a buffbot and a group not using one is very small (unless your a mid group with only 1 shaman).

For a very long time I used my buffbot for pve only but the time came when I realised that most other guild groups used a buffbot (especially mids) and that in order to make fights more fair I would have to use mine in rvr.

I would be more than willing to stop using my buffbot in rvr if every other player also did so. Im quite happy to use normal cleric buffs if all other guild groups do so and if other stealthers fought totally unbuffed (apart from charges/potion buffs etc).

Your quite right that most fights aren't really fair, even 8 vs 8. In one night of rvr I consider myself lucky to have one fight which I think is really fair for both sides. But for me the fights that are the most fair are the ones that are the most fun and are always worth waiting for, when everything you do in that fight counts towards winning or losing, thats why I play daoc

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by Pin
Why would that make any difference?

For the majority of the playtime with my Inf I was unbuffed, the most viable targets for me were weak ones within a group. I killed casters and healers by the bucketload and _rarely_ fought other stealthers (basically due to there not being many of them though).

Removing buffs from a solo assassin won't stop him killing your sorc as you run around in a fg fight, it might just mean that he has to land a good PA to get away with it.

I think it would make a difference, and I think a solo asssasin would find it much harder to kill me if he was unbuffed.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by hotrat
Pin there is a MASSIVE difference between a group using a buffbot and a soloer using one and you know it.

Yes, the difference is that the group is 8 players with buffbot buffs, instead of just 1.

Originally posted by hotrat
There is also a MASSIVE difference between a soloer who has a buffbot fighting a soloer who does not have one.

Just as there's a MASSIVE difference between a high RR char fighting a low RR char. Or a char with full SC fighting someone in DF armour, etc. Nobody has claimed any different.

Originally posted by hotrat
The difference between a group who use a buffbot and a group not using one is very small (unless your a mid group with only 1 shaman).

Very small? How is it a small difference when in 1 case you kill the Cleric/Druid/Shaman and the group loses half their buffs, or nobody loses any of their buffs?
How is it a small difference when you're all +100-200 hp, tanks have +100ws, etc, etc. It's not a small difference.

Originally posted by hotrat
For a very long time I used my buffbot for pve only but the time came when I realised that most other guild groups used a buffbot (especially mids) and that in order to make fights more fair I would have to use mine in rvr.

If it was a very small difference, you wouldn't have to use yours

Originally posted by hotrat
I would be more than willing to stop using my buffbot in rvr if every other player also did so. Im quite happy to use normal cleric buffs if all other guild groups do so and if other stealthers fought totally unbuffed (apart from charges/potion buffs etc).

But of course this is not going to happen.

And just like you, I used to always RvR unbuffed, and just like you there comes a point where it's just not fun to fight and die all the time because the opponent is buffed, so I use a bot now. There's nothing shameful in using a buffbot, it's just another of those choices that we, as players, get to make. (Though I will always throw an extra /hug to people who die to me unbuffed).

Originally posted by hotrat
Your quite right that most fights aren't really fair, even 8 vs 8. In one night of rvr I consider myself lucky to have one fight which I think is really fair for both sides. But for me the fights that are the most fair are the ones that are the most fun and are always worth waiting for, when everything you do in that fight counts towards winning or losing, thats why I play daoc

And if you ever find a fight where all 16 of those players think it was fair and make no excuses about the defeat, nor brag about the victory then you're very lucky indeed

 

[hrun]

Imo BB's have made this game a lot worse and made It more unbalanced between classes (especially soloers).

we can take the ranger as an example. The ranger has a selfbuffline called pathfinding...If buffbots were non existing the selfbuffs in the pathfinding-line would give a buff-advantage towards other stealthers that dont have it (Infils for example). Nowadays when an Infil and a ranger is fighting they usually fight with similar buffs thus making the fight unbalanced and the PF- line useless.

Id love to see BB's removed from the game.. for example by making buffs have a certain range, but as it has been said before thats hardly going to happen because of the $

Pin.. good post and I agree with you 100%

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by hotrat
I think it would make a difference, and I think a solo asssasin would find it much harder to kill me if he was unbuffed.

Yes, of course he would find it much harder to kill you, but why would that stop him trying? If he doesn't think he can manage it alone he's always got friends
It also wouldn't stop an archer peppering you and your clerics with arrows, interrupting you the whole fight. Buffbots really are silly excuse.

And even if they did no longer attack you, look at the other side... Would it stop your group killing a stealther if you found one? Nope.


Stop trying to make out there is a a seperate 8v8 game within DAoC. It doesn't exist. It's realm vs realm. There are battles of all sizes taking place, sometimes you can have an isolated fight, sometimes you cannot. Sometimes you can control the numbers, sometimes you cannot. Sometimes you can fight completely on your own terms, sometimes you cannot.

The fact that it is largely unpredictible increases the fun factor, not the opposite.