HL2 and Doom3 weeks away - new graphics card discussion

[Jonty]

The interesting comment in the guide is that it is better to increase image resolution than use AA as the majority of the game is in shadows, in doors, so you dont notice jaggies. Still I might try 2XAA as my system should run a higher resolution than my TFT supports with good performance.

Having a 6800 Ultra should also help! What is interesting is that even a 128Mb 6800 non-Ultra running at 1600x1200 (high quality, 8x AF) can outperform a 256Mb 5900 Ultra running at 1024x768 (high quality, 8x AF).

That said, id seem to have done a very good job delivering quality graphics for a very wide range of systems, so hats off to them.

Kind Regards

 

[SawTooTH]

I agree, Im putting my 5950 Ultra in my eldest sons puter (3000+ AMD) so that should play it quite well on medium settings for him. My Youngest son has a 2600+ AMD with a 9700PRO so he still should be able to play it at 800X 600! ---cant you see a deathmatch here in the making?

But they reckon a 1.5 GHz processor with a Geforce 3 still being able to cope. This is quite a spread but this wasnt my experience when Q2 was released

That required a new computer for me to play that at the time. I think I managed to just about squeeze the game on my HD having uninstalled everything else and I still remember having to play it in a reduced screen.

 

[old.user4556]

I'm glad I bought a TFT with 1280*1024 native res, 'cos I'd hate to be forced to play Doom3/Farcry/HL2 at 1600.

G

 

[SawTooTH]

Just changed my order to a XFX ultra as OC have a load in next week (at last). This ones clocked slightly faster than the usual Ultra 425-450Hz.
Cant wait till Tuesday. Im going to test it out with Farcry first.

 

[old.user4556]

It's done, I've ordered a BFG 6800 GT - automatically overclocked, custom cooling solution and lifetime warranty. Clocks to 6800 Ultra speeds - pretty good for £285 all in.

G

 

[Jonty]

It's done, I've ordered a BFG 6800 GT - automatically overclocked, custom cooling solution and lifetime warranty. Clocks to 6800 Ultra speeds - pretty good for £285 all in.

G

Nice card, Big G Hope you're happy with it. You'll probably want to download the latest drivers from nVidia, as it's unlikely to ship with them (plus DirectX 9c).

Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. Talking of custom cooling solutions, a Gigabyte 6800 non-Ultra has been spotted which is entirely passively cooled, ships with 128MB GDDR3 memory, and fills only a single slot. Nice

 

[SawTooTH]

Whats the deal with Direct x 9c? I have it but not sure what to expect.

 

[Jonty]

Whats the deal with Direct x 9c? I have it but not sure what to expect.

At the moment, you'll likely see no difference. However, DirectX 9c supports shader model 3.0 (as do the very latest nVidia drivers) which the 6800 range support. So, when the next FarCry patch is released, you ought to see some lovely new effects as SM3.0 has been implemented (try searching for some screenies). The 1.2 patch did offer these new effects, but issues with ATI cards meant it was withdrawn.

Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. Before anyone says, yes, the effects are possible with SM2.x (ATI (and older nVidia cards) will receive some in the new patch thanks to SM2b) but SM3.0 merely offers a more efficient way of accomplishing things (e.g. it has been said, say, if four lighting calculations could be computated in one rendering pass in SM3.0, only around two are possible in SM2 and one in SM1).
P.P.S. Other games are also likely to implement SM3.0 too, such as Painkiller's expansion pack etc.

 

[Danya]

At the moment, you'll likely see no difference. However, DirectX 9c supports shader model 3.0 (as do the very latest nVidia drivers) which the 6800 range support. So, when the next FarCry patch is released, you ought to see some lovely new effects as SM3.0 has been implemented (try searching for some screenies). The 1.2 patch did offer these new effects, but issues with ATI cards meant it was withdrawn.

SM3.0 was in 9.0b, however there is better support for it in 9.0c. 9.0c hasn't really changed much over 9.0b in end-user terms.

 

[Jonty]

SM3.0 was in 9.0b, however there is better support for it in 9.0c. 9.0c hasn't really changed much over 9.0b in end-user terms.

Hi Danya

You are indeed right However, in real terms, important features of SM3.0 are only available in DirectX 9.0c (e.g. HLSL in Direct3D). Thus only now we have these features will developers begin to really take advantage of them as in Far Cry and other applications.

Kind Regards

Jonty ... who goes back into obscurity before he rubs Danya up the wrong way again

 

[WPKenny]

Hi Big G

Have you seen the BFG 6800 GT OC? In stock, 6800 GT oveclocked out of the box to 370Mhz core/1000Mhz memory, bespoke cooling solution, £278. Seems nice Not to mention BFG's lifetime warranty and 24/7 tech support. I know the company has only just moved outside the US, but still, it seems like a nice deal.

Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. That's almost the same clock as your Ultra, SawTooTH! Mind you, you can overclock your Ultra beyond that (I hear ~450Mhz core, ~1.2Ghz memory).

I can't get one of thse off the website. It seesm you can't order one if they're out of stuock unless I'm blind. What are the chances of me finding this card at the same price in a PC World near me?

 

[Jonty]

Hi WPKenny

I'm honestly not sure if you'd get one in store or not. In theory, you'd think the website would stock the same products as your nearest PC World's component centre, but I know my own PC World is somewhat lacking (and expensive) when it comes to graphics cards. Your best bet may to ring up your local branch and ask if they (or other PC World's in the vicinity) have any in stock, then at least you wouldn't have a wasted journey.

Kind Regards

 

[WPKenny]

Hi WPKenny

I'm honestly not sure if you'd get one in store or not. In theory, you'd think the website would stock the same products as your nearest PC World's component centre, but I know my own PC World is somewhat lacking (and expensive) when it comes to graphics cards. Your best bet may to ring up your local branch and ask if they (or other PC World's in the vicinity) have any in stock, then at least you wouldn't have a wasted journey.

Kind Regards

I popped past a PC World near our office on the way to work and they guy said they don't stock them in the stroes at all at this moment in time.
It's a bit odd not being able to order something from the website in anticipation of them recieving more stock isn't it? I wonder why they do that.

 

[Jonty]

I popped past a PC World near our office on the way to work and they guy said they don't stock them in the stroes at all at this moment in time.
It's a bit odd not being able to order something from the website in anticipation of them recieving more stock isn't it? I wonder why they do that.

Sorry to hear you couldn't get sorted I'm guessing the site prevents people from pre-ordering to stop what happened over at OcUK. Apparently when the x800 was first introduced, they managed to accumulate 4,000+ pre-orders, and yet there was barely a few thousand units available across the world at that point (and thus they were apparently left with many unhappy, impatient customers). Here's hoping the due date is being conserative.

Kind Regards

Edit ~ The above is just popular hearsay, whether they did achieve that figure, I don't know, but they certainly did have many pre-orders

 

[Ch3tan]

http://www.shuttle.com/share/product_data/spec/SB81P_DM.pdf

I want the above, hopefully by Christmas.

DO you think they will actually release the pcix gfx cards by then?

 

[WPKenny]

Sorry to hear you couldn't get sorted I'm guessing the site prevents people from pre-ordering to stop what happened over at OcUK. Apparently when the x800 was first introduced, they managed to accumulate 4,000+ pre-orders, and yet there was barely a few thousand units available across the world at that point (and thus they were apparently left with many unhappy, impatient customers). Here's hoping the due date is being conserative.

Kind Regards

Edit ~ The above is just popular hearsay, whether they did achieve that figure, I don't know, but they certainly did have many pre-orders

I've emailed the customer support to see if they can offer a solution rather than me having to check back every day or so and hope I'm quick enough to nab one before whatever stock they have sells out. I can't find another UK retailer for these cards online or offline.

 

[Jonty]

http://www.shuttle.com/share/product_data/spec/SB81P_DM.pdf

I want the above, hopefully by Christmas.

DO you think they will actually release the pcix gfx cards by then?

The new line of Shuttles really are nice That said, you probably are best off waiting. By Christmas, DDR-II based Shuttles should be out, and the existing problems with DDR-II memory hopefully resolved. Intel are also rumoured to be upping their bus to an effective 1066Mhz, I believe.

As for PCI-Express graphics cards, they are already available in some regions of the world and more are planned. Currently ATi's next-gen mainstream and budget cards (x600 and x300) are designed to be native PCI-Express (AGP versions will also exist in the short'ish term). x800 PCI-Express cards should also be available at some point. As for nVidia, some of their previous generation cards have been made in PCI-Express form (the GeForce FX 5750 (based on the 5700)) springs to mind). PCI-Express versions of the GeForce 6 range are also planned.

nVidia's solutions at present rely on something called an HSI bridge-chip, which (as far as I know, I haven't read up on it) basically allows the existing AGP design to be used instead of having to redesign the whole board (if you look at the x300/x600 design, you can see it looks a lot different to many cards). This helps to reduces costs, and according to nVidia will not impact on performance. ATi's x300 and x600 are native PCI-Express cards, that is, not modified AGP versions (if I'm wrong on this, please say). Native PCI-Express nVidia cards should be out by the end of year (when we'll likely see 512MB cards hitting the shelves from both nVidia and ATI).

Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. Hope you get sorted WPKenny. BFG have only recently expanded their operations outside the U.S., so they may not have the relations with many stores that other card suppliers have.

P.P.S. GeForce 5750

x600

 

[old.user4556]

Saw this on the pcw webby for the 6800 GT card:

Currently out of stock. Will be available within 7-14 days

Would it be a bad time to say I got my 6800 GT delivered yesterday from PCW?

G

 

[Jonty]

Saw this on the pcw webby for the 6800 GT card:



Would it be a bad time to say I got my 6800 GT delivered yesterday from PCW?

G

Happy with the card, Big G? I hope so (run any benchmarks?)

Kind Regards

 

[WPKenny]

Saw this on the pcw webby for the 6800 GT card:



Would it be a bad time to say I got my 6800 GT delivered yesterday from PCW?

G

I hate you.



Well it's my own fault. I dithered over the purchase and missed out.

 

[old.user4556]

Happy with the card, Big G? I hope so (run any benchmarks?)

Kind Regards

The card is brilliant Jonty, nice packaging, looks and feels well made. The fan on it is very quiet, more quiet than my old 9800 Pro fan which I thought was quiet then!

Benchmarks.

Only run 3DMark2003 (synthetic, i know ), but at 370/550 (out of the box overclock) it puts out 10897 with no AA and no AF. With AA on x2 and AF on x4, it put out 8280.

But the super overclock - 412/550 (12 MHz over the 6800 Ultra core and same mem speed) it put out 11800 marks. Pretty damn fast and over double the performance of my 9800 Pro. Battle of Proxycon averages 100 fps, so you can use that as a guide to performance on Doom3 with its very similar stencil shadowing.

The benchies were run on an Athlon 3200+, ABIT AN7, 1 GB of LL Corsair TwinX PC3200.

Absolutely incredible bang per buck performance - £285 all in.

G

 

[Jonty]

That's great news, Big G The performance certainly seems impressive, and the price tag is great considering you're getting Ultra clock speeds. I was interested about the quality, given the card has that bespoke colling, so I'm glad that all seems okay too

Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. For the record, my Shuttle (P4 3.2Ghz, Kingston HyperX DDR400 512MB, MSI 6800 non-Ultra) roughly hits in 3DMark03 (1024x768, no AF/AA) 8,600 at stock; 9400 using MSI's own dynamic overclocking; and apparently 10-11,000 when 'properly' overclocked (though I'm too scared of doing this, so I have to rely on other people's results ).

 

[WPKenny]

I may just go and get the cheapest GT I can find. It seems from various forums that any/all GT's overclock to at least Ultra levels.

Whatcha reckon?

 

[WPKenny]

Sod it,

Just ordered a Leadtek GT from overclockers.co.uk. 300 quid. Never spent that much on just a single pc component before. I hope it's worth it and the fdamn thing over clocks like hell.

 

[inactionman]

I've got the OEM version of the Leadtek, it overclocks to Ultra speeds no problem, despite it having a smaller cooler than the retail version! I assume you've gone for retail?

 

[WPKenny]

I've got the OEM version of the Leadtek, it overclocks to Ultra speeds no problem, despite it having a smaller cooler than the retail version! I assume you've gone for retail?

I didn't know there was that difference. I went for the OEM version cos I didn't see the point in spending an extra 12 quid on PoP and splinter cell which I don't really need/want.

Fingers crossed it o/c's as well as yours, but what you've said is very encouraging. Cheers.

 

[inactionman]

When I say a smaller cooler, it's still a solid lump of copper that's miles better than the GT reference cooler, you'll see this by the weight of it! It's just that it will (barely) fit in a single slot, whilst the retail version won't.

People's experiences of GT o/cing to Ultras is very good, particularly on the Leadteks, Nvidia must be getting good yields.

 

[WPKenny]

Woah! Hats off to Overclockers.co.uk. I ordered my GT yesterday after 3pm and my girlfriend's just been in touch to say it was delivered this morning. Now THAT's fast!

 

[Jonty]

Hi guys

Warning! This is very likely to permenantly damage your card ...

It seems that some bright spark has found a way to unlock the full 16 pipelines on 6800 non-Ultra cards, which usually ships with only ('only', hehe) 12 active pipelines.

Please be aware that the vast majority of 6800 non-Ultras have purposefully shipped with the remaining four pipelines defective. Thus, if you unlock them, you will be left with artifacts and other defects. Moreover, these problems remain even if you try to reverse what you've done.

However, it seems that at least one card (MSI, as luck would have it) had it's remaining pipleines successfully unlocked without problem. This should, in theory, yield a very nice performance boost.

Personally, I'm not brave enough to try it on my MSI card, but it's nice to know the option's there if I'm ever feeling brave/daft

More details can be found over on Digit-Life.

Kind Regards

 

[old.user4556]

That's fairly unsurprising Jonty, there has been speculation for a while about unlocking those extra pipelines. However, i've seen a couple of mates try to unlock the extra pipelines on the 9800 SE to bring it up to a 9800 Pro with disasterous results and I would advise strongly not to go down this route.

Pay the money you cheap gits

G