Hib pbae

[Hercules-DF]

i agree m8, alb is the only realm without an outstanding setup, Hibs uber casters mids uber melee, both of which is how the designers planned it at the start, however albs only advantage is huge numbers, we were supposed to have better "tech" then give us a class that can get a horse (pally) or let armsmen aoe hit with poles, (armsmen pets would be nice, their own personal zerg of green guards) could be loads more alb only things to bring alb in line with mid and hib, we are supposed to be the tech realm, give us some fucking tech mythc!! and not just master level abilities, wizards should have their own elemental pets or bodyguards from the start.

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

i agree m8, alb is the only realm without an outstanding setup, Hibs uber casters mids uber melee, both of which is how the designers planned it at the start, however albs only advantage is huge numbers, we were supposed to have better "tech" then give us a class that can get a horse (pally) or let armsmen aoe hit with poles, (armsmen pets would be nice, their own personal zerg of green guards) could be loads more alb only things to bring alb in line with mid and hib, we are supposed to be the tech realm, give us some fucking tech mythc!! and not just master level abilities, wizards should have their own elemental pets or bodyguards from the start.

Albs have the defence ^^

cleric AF buffs/pally AF chant
reactive heal proc
BoF
SoS (semi defensive)

 

[Asha]

well not much to heal if mincer does his work with tank on pets _outside_ of box.. its stupid to charge box if u know ur support is interrupted.. failing to get the box disabled.

err, if you dont charge box and try getting casters down they will start debuff + assistnuke, you can like sos and run away and get back when mez timer is gone? or just go out of range from dd? still lots to debuffnuke ;p And for example after GP bard will mez support and they'll be debuffnuked if tanks aint there. And tanks will die torwards the pbae then if sorc or minstrel can interupt.

err tanks assist on 1 caster.. how do u think the other 2 are interrupted? by the air? no by your support... without tanks at box u can keep em interrupted...sure some debuff nukes will probably happend.. but thye have to moc to do so..u can outplay most hib caster grps by just taking looking over the situation once or twice.. rather then CHARGE... nvm our support cant heal us...

Stallion. You say it’s stupid to charge the box if you know your support is interrupted. Then Judde points out that if your support is interrupted and you don’t charge the box, then you will get stunned, debuffed and assist nuked to death in seconds. Then you say your support can keep the box interrupted w/o tanks in there? How? They are interrupted already. Your support is 2 clerics, sorc, paladin and minstrel. Pala can’t interrupt without entering cage. Clerics and sorc can’t do anything if interrupted. That leaves a minstrel to interrupt the cage? It doesn’t work. You have to either engage the cage, or run away. If you don’t engage or run, you get nuked to death.

The idea isn’t to run in and CHARGE and expect your clerics to keep you up. The idea is that you run in and start to attack hopefully while your support is working together to stop any interruptions to themselves – pala slamming pets, mincer interrupting anything out of cage, sorcerer interrupting in the cage – once he is free of interruption himself. The troubles come when your sorcerer doesn’t interrupt – usually because your mincer and paladin haven’t freed him up. Also keep in mind that you often have 2x group heal (sucky) and 1 FH (v good).

The problem is that if one alb doesn't do his exact job, then the group very very quickly falls.

 

[Stallion]

well ur tanks _will_ die eventually either way... if u dont get the upperhand on interrupts..I remember NP grp did verry nice actully.. even with their support interrupted. the tanks move out of pb asap theystart taking damage.. regain abit.. back in... circulate..

anyway sounds to me that if u dont have upperhand on interrupts then your lost? a qc from sorc is enough.. u only need to take away 1 pet to get a better chance of getting the upperhand.. sure druid/bard/chanter/eld/warden/hero/animist or whatever class.. might stil interrupt but not if u spread out in a good way... if u would have a cabba u can stand at QQ range and interrupt everything(NS)... _and_ avoid stun/debuff/nuke

anyway lots of ways to solve this.. its usaly just albs charging in without a clue how the rest of the grp is doing and just lay down and die then whine when they dont give it a 2nd try..

 

[Konah]

tanks can interrupt in the box too... don't see it being done often enuf tho.

 

[Hotrats]

Heh I knew you would come back and say a alb caster group is possible well I agree they are possible, I have even been in the TB caster group and beaten several groups. I was just trying to think of the best alb group given any situation, facing baod for example a alb caster group will really struggle, just like a hib melee group does facing SoS.

A alb tank group with a reaver will struggle a little vs a mid fotm group but at least you stand a much better chance vs hib pbae, especially if you focus on keeping that reaver alive.

You are right stajj that a spirit cabalist fits better into a alb tank group than a chanter does in a hib one for sure, mostly for the disease, and I do quite often see hib tank groups running with one eld for the same purpose. The body debuff is the other main reason ofc as like I said it really turns a mind sorc into a lethul nuker. However 2 cloth casters in a tank group can make it a little vulnerable, and if im going to run with a cabalist i prefer to do it like this (although the tank group idea does work):

1 mind sorc
1 body sorc
2 spirit caba
2 cleric
1 mins
1 pala

Like Fedaykin mentioned this group is extreemly fun, instead of relying on pbae as its caster defence, it relies on heavy kiting and moc lifetapping (with help from SoS and BoF). Cabalists can 15% snare the det 5 tanks with disease, and further 40% snare them with the lvl 48 ae snare 2 min duration, with WA3 these can crit as well to really slow the enemy tanks down. All 4 Pets interupt the support, as does the minstrel, while the paladin can afford to spend all his time guarding.

Against a hib pbae group its bound to be a ranged fight on who can kill the enemies debuffer first, with pets flying everywhere to interupt, and the albs desperately trying to avoid being mezzed. Sadly I haven't tried this group setup much yet and haven't faced a decent hib pbae group yet, cannot wait till I do (bring it on DH )

 

[Hotrats]

if u would have a cabba u can stand at QQ range and interrupt everything(NS)... _and_ avoid stun/debuff/nuke

I think the caba might wanna get into 1500 range so he can lay down ae disease and his own debuff nukes. Its risky I admit being in stun and dps debuff range but given the alternative of ST nearsight I would take the risk, if the cabalist has moc ready, thats gonna be nasty for dem hibbies

tanks can interrupt in the box too... don't see it being done often enuf tho.

Yer, its not as easy for tanks to interupt though, they have a guarder/slammer to compete with as well as the risk of just 1 caster being free or moc'ing and pbae'ing right underneath. Thats why I say they should look to the support, or get a reaver

 

[Stallion]

sounds like a plan

 

[Fedaykin]

i got 47+17 body with spirit caba debuffs i nuke for 650ish then with wp3 i have been getting crazy amount of crits frequently rising into the 400's

1k dmg per nuke for the win, try healing that

dropped a brehon in 1 dd before was lovely

 

[Stallion]

i got 47+17 body with spirit caba debuffs i nuke for 650ish then with wp3 i have been getting crazy amount of crits frequently rising into the 400's

1k dmg per nuke for the win, try healing that

dropped a brehon in 1 dd before was lovely

whats your cap at? if 650 you wont be able to crit for 400 but for 325... crit cap is 50% afaik. or something like 47%

with MoM 1 you have 554 x 1.5 = 831 as a chanter.

 

[Asha]

well ur tanks _will_ die eventually either way... if u dont get the upperhand on interrupts..I remember NP grp did verry nice actully.. even with their support interrupted. the tanks move out of pb asap theystart taking damage.. regain abit.. back in... circulate..

The tanks don't die either way. If they engage the cage, they are interupting hopefully the pbaoe short of qc and moc. It's alot easier to get an upperhand on the interupts if you are engaging the casters and there by the healers. NP group? NP group has ae insta mez, ae insta stun, they had asd spam abuse (left when it was fixed), icor, ae root, ae disease, ae dots. All without any cloth casters If we move out of pbaoe vs any decent hib group, then they immediately begin stun, debuff, assist nuke. I doubt np tanks moved out of cage unless moc anyhow.

anyway sounds to me that if u dont have upperhand on interrupts then your lost? a qc from sorc is enough..

qc what hon? mez? on a pet that has already been gp'ed? you know there is at least 4 pets for most hib pbaoe groups?

u only need to take away 1 pet to get a better chance of getting the upperhand.. sure druid/bard/chanter/eld/warden/hero/animist or whatever class.. might stil interrupt but not if u spread out in a good way... if u would have a cabba u can stand at QQ range and interrupt everything(NS)... _and_ avoid stun/debuff/nuke

you don't only need to take away one pet, but it's a start. better to take out the owner of the pet we do spread out, but like I said the support team have to help each other so you can't spread -that- much. a cabalist is nice to have, but I don't think he can interupt a cage like a sorcerer can, eventually your tanks have to engage and the sorcerer is a better choice then than a cabalist to help interupt. An alb tank group can't afford to get 2 cloth casters, we've tried it a million ways.

anyway lots of ways to solve this.. its usaly just albs charging in without a clue how the rest of the grp is doing and just lay down and die then whine when they dont give it a 2nd try..

sure lots of albs charge in w/o knowing what their group is doing, but that doesn't change the fact that to not engage the casters or run away is suicide.

 

[Stallion]

The tanks don't die either way. If they engage the cage, they are interupting hopefully the pbaoe short of qc and moc. It's alot easier to get an upperhand on the interupts if you are engaging the casters and there by the healers. NP group? NP group has ae insta mez, ae insta stun, they had asd spam abuse (left when it was fixed), icor, ae root, ae disease, ae dots. All without any cloth casters If we move out of pbaoe vs any decent hib group, then they immediately begin stun, debuff, assist nuke. I doubt np tanks moved out of cage unless moc anyhow.

The tanks will die either way if what your saying is right... u dont want the tanks spread out on a caster each, their assisting.. = interrupting one at a time.. sure a hit here and there might help.. wouldnt trust that to much...a decent guarder even makes a wardens heals enough vs alb tank grps.. wouldnt say u force nat druid/bard stop interrupting just cuz u engage a caster with guarder..

qc what hon? mez? on a pet that has already been gp'ed? you know there is at least 4 pets for most hib pbaoe groups?

qc the box and u get a time hole of 5 secs?

you don't only need to take away one pet, but it's a start. better to take out the owner of the pet we do spread out, but like I said the support team have to help each other so you can't spread -that- much. a cabalist is nice to have, but I don't think he can interupt a cage like a sorcerer can, eventually your tanks have to engage and the sorcerer is a better choice then than a cabalist to help interupt. An alb tank group can't afford to get 2 cloth casters, we've tried it a million ways.

you cant take the owner of the pet out since he is verry well guarded and _IN_ the box, where u cant be for verry long without ur grp having controll over interrupts.

sure lots of albs charge in w/o knowing what their group is doing, but that doesn't change the fact that to not engage the casters or run away is suicide.

im not saying u should run away that far.. why not let the cleric/sorc/minstrel or whatever bring himself and the pet to the tanks... there are lots of solutions.. its so easy to disable a box... cant do much when they moc except to have the pally ready..or u have to move out..

 

[Fedaykin]

whats your cap at? if 650 you wont be able to crit for 400 but for 325... crit cap is 50% afaik. or something like 47%

with MoM 1 you have 554 x 1.5 = 831 as a chanter.

i got MoM 1 atm, will have to check my cap, but trust me i get crits in the 400's quite often

 

[Asha]

The tanks will die either way if what your saying is right... u dont want the tanks spread out on a caster each, their assisting.. = interrupting one at a time.. sure a hit here and there might help.. wouldnt trust that to much...a decent guarder even makes a wardens heals enough vs alb tank grps.. wouldnt say u force nat druid/bard stop interrupting just cuz u engage a caster with guarder..

They might die either way, but you have a chance if you engage. You have a chance that your support team will get things under control. If you move away, you'll die for certain. It's all I am saying.

qc the box and u get a time hole of 5 secs?

qc what? what is that going to do for you? you won't get a time hole because most of your interupts aren't coming from the cage.

you cant take the owner of the pet out since he is verry well guarded and _IN_ the box, where u cant be for verry long without ur grp having controll over interrupts.

you can we do win sometimes/often ^^ You can turn it around, but like I said, one person on the alb team not doing his job perfect is like a domino effect.

im not saying u should run away that far.. why not let the cleric/sorc/minstrel or whatever bring himself and the pet to the tanks... there are lots of solutions.. its so easy to disable a box... cant do much when they moc except to have the pally ready..or u have to move out..

because if your tanks and cleric move just out of range, the hibs will move and follow you. they will nuke you from a distance. The best solution is, as rats said, a reaver. Too bad it's a bit gimpy vs mids

 

[Wildfire]

BAoD is beatable if you have more than one sorc in the group - with only one you're going to be hard-pressed to keep up the interrupts for the full 30 seconds as the power drain is immense. Best advice I can give in this situation is to start spamming AE root when you see BAoD go off, until you see someone moc, then switch to amnesia (combine this with a theurg and preferably another sorc, and you can keep the enemy casters interrupted for long enough that their BAoD is effectively wasted.

 

[Stallion]

BAoD is beatable if you have more than one sorc in the group - with only one you're going to be hard-pressed to keep up the interrupts for the full 30 seconds as the power drain is immense. Best advice I can give in this situation is to start spamming AE root when you see BAoD go off, until you see someone moc, then switch to amnesia (combine this with a theurg and preferably another sorc, and you can keep the enemy casters interrupted for long enough that their BAoD is effectively wasted.

lol baod wasted? its successfull just as if u would nuke insteed of root... root interrupts, nukes interrupts neither does dmg during boad = no difference...what ur winning is "no power drain".. which aint the main reasons u baod.. its to keep your grp alive ... and it works if u just go rooting.

 

[[NO]Magmatic]

BAoD can be a bitch if too many of the Hib casters have MoC up... With BAoD the fight is lost very quickly if you make too many mistakes... The horrid thing is that BAoD can make you lose to RR3 groups... Which I've not seen bof do yet to a RR6-9 group...

However, if we lose to BAoD its not because of the 'lack' of damage, but more that they got the upper hand on interrupts... Interrupts is what all caster groups win or lose by... Get the upper hand on interrupts on a caster team and you have won... (which for us usually means we fucked up, happens more often then one might think)

Debuff-nuking helps against BAoD, but you'll spend a shit load of time debuffing since it'll only last 1 nuke

A hib group with BAoD up is NOT unbeatable by an alb-caster group... Its just very very hard... Probably like a tank group facing an alb-tank group with bof & sos up...

BAoD might even be worse for the fact that with the right ra's and resist buffs, BAoD can make you immume to magic damage, while bof only lowers melee damage and sos still will make you able to hit their tanks... And their support with magic spells...

Another horrid thing with BAoD is that it affects duration of mez & root too...

 

[Lac Desariel]

Im a bit of a noob when it comes to alb classes as never played alb but wudnt this setup be ok?

Ice Wiz x3
Sorc
Pally s/s
Mincer
Cleric x2

this is the set up i use, or drop 1 ice for a theurg and pet spam, we struggle greatly vs high RR mid groups and any casters with BOAD, vs SM groups we do very well but to be fair we have RR advantage over 95% of SM groups and that can make a huge different when killing casters vs casters

 

[Belomar]

i got MoM 1 atm, will have to check my cap, but trust me i get crits in the 400's quite often

You do a lot of PvE? Crits are capped at 50% of your damage in RvR for everyone except zerkers.

 

[Stallion]

You do a lot of PvE? Crits are capped at 50% of your damage in RvR for everyone except zerkers.

hehe

 

[Stallion]

BAoD can be a bitch if too many of the Hib casters have MoC up... With BAoD the fight is lost very quickly if you make too many mistakes... The horrid thing is that BAoD can make you lose to RR3 groups... Which I've not seen bof do yet to a RR6-9 group...

However, if we lose to BAoD its not because of the 'lack' of damage, but more that they got the upper hand on interrupts... Interrupts is what all caster groups win or lose by... Get the upper hand on interrupts on a caster team and you have won... (which for us usually means we fucked up, happens more often then one might think)

Debuff-nuking helps against BAoD, but you'll spend a shit load of time debuffing since it'll only last 1 nuke

A hib group with BAoD up is NOT unbeatable by an alb-caster group... Its just very very hard... Probably like a tank group facing an alb-tank group with bof & sos up...

BAoD might even be worse for the fact that with the right ra's and resist buffs, BAoD can make you immume to magic damage, while bof only lowers melee damage and sos still will make you able to hit their tanks... And their support with magic spells...

Another horrid thing with BAoD is that it affects duration of mez & root too...

now you tell me what rr3 chanter has baod and yes baod should be nerfed.. and its inc.. but fyi resists will stil be around high 60ish70ish with it... adding aboud 18+ resists what aint red/purp resist buff...

 

[Fedaykin]

You do a lot of PvE? Crits are capped at 50% of your damage in RvR for everyone except zerkers.

Havn't been PvE on my sorc for ages

6 Fedaykin OVERMIND 2,234,512 186,695 50 Keepers Of The Light Avalonian

Last week

I'll start taking screenshots.

 

[Stallion]

Havn't been PvE on my sorc for ages

6 Fedaykin OVERMIND 2,234,512 186,695 50 Keepers Of The Light Avalonian

Last week

I'll start taking screenshots.

well depends what your cap is at...and you can count it ...

enchanter base light nuke = 179
179 x 3 x 1.03 = 554 rougly...

sorc 45 body spec nuke = 209.7
209.7 x 3 x 1.03-1.06-09 = 648-667-686... ie you cant crit for more then

MoM 1 324 + 648 = 972
MoM 2 333 + 667 = 1000
MoM 3 343 + 686 = 1029

getting over 1k will be hard.. since u verry rarly crit cap...prove us wrong with some screens :kissit:

 

[Sepiritz]

TB > 2fg albs... if u have a set grp with nice friends and ppl u dont need to outnumber 2:1.. silly comment.. and in this patch baod gives you 30 sec imunity against the mage grp if they dont assist with debuffs.. (only seen TB do it) :kissit:

Note that I never said outnumber. :kissit:
2fg vs 2fg can be lots of fun actually and imo alb could compete better at that level, which is what my post was about.

 

[Stallion]

Note that I never said outnumber. :kissit:
2fg vs 2fg can be lots of fun actually and imo alb could compete better at that level, which is what my post was about.

how often do you actully meet other 2fg roamers? .. and how often do you run over solo fgs.. not that im worried...

 

[nol]

how novel, hotrats whining.

 

[Generation]

Hoping to try a *weird* caster group out sometime soon, no idea if it'll work in practise but it might be fun.

matter/mind sorc
body/matter sorc
matter/body sorc
ice wizz
ice wizz
shield pala
cleric
mincer

Theory is, the mind sorc casts the initial mezz (hopefully at bolt range), then a pbae box is set up (not for offense, but to protect the group). The body sorc then acts as MA and singles out the enemy support 1st, matter debuff followed by double DoT and all 3 sorcs casting the matter spec snare nuke. This group also has nice debuffs with a decent str/con on mind sorc and a dex/qui on the other sorcs.

Any incoming tanks can be cold debuffed by the body sorc before they hit the pbae box for maximum effect.

Major drawback is gettin caught by surprise, group is basically dead in that case but noone's perfect

 

[Belomar]

Havn't been PvE on my sorc for ages

6 Fedaykin OVERMIND 2,234,512 186,695 50 Keepers Of The Light Avalonian

Yes, I know of you. But fact remains about the 50% max crit.

 

[Wildfire]

Generation: only one cleric?

Can't wait for the BAoD nerf, in an ideal world they'd take bof, baod and savages out of the game tbh.

 

[Remem]

Of course it is possible. It's simply a matter of your perspective -- yes, it will be difficult and you may die (often), but it's sure a lot of fun.

Sounds fun!