Heavy tank classes

[Konah]

and yes we have heard of reacitves and charges, but thats not necessarily available to all chars in the game due to money or depending on how long they been playing for

u cant afford reactives for your sc armour? damn! u mids need to get DF more often! and buffbots cost money last i checked.

 

[Kagato]

thats not true, hero/armsman only looses a bit damage on 1h, blocking just as good when guarding, and bodyguard work just as fine.

the class that can take most melee damage of those 3 is definatly armsman.

and yes, armsmen dont get spot in group, because paladins are so much better for the bg job, or friar.

Your missing the point entirely, im not talking about damage potential but spec, Warriors don't have to waste 50 spec points to use two-handed weapons, Armsmen do, which means we cannot spec for defense as well without sacrificing our damage variance, Warriors have no such concerns.

Two use all those nice styles you quoted without huge damage variance we need to spec 50/50 or go hybrid and drop our defenses or try and come to some compromise.

As for taking more damage then the 3 heavy tanks, its possible, but theres not much in it, and on the other side of the balance warriors get more hit points more strength and more weaponskill as a result, we ALL have a slight advantage and a slight disadvantage but we all also suffer the same common problems in modern RvR.

Oh yeah, Warriors also getting a bloody good RR5 RA.

Armsmen get Snapshot.

Wanna trade?

 

[Twinky]

first of all remove grapple or make it impossible to take damage when grappled.. same thing with FZ (mb add timer when fz'd when u can't take dmg)
then i must say that soloing as warrior isn't bad.. tho merc anf bm with equal rr and a decent temp will kick my arse 4 sure... so imo warr needs an ability to a grp.. atm we dont have sh**t tbh.. zerks and thanes have better ra's and ml abilitys... and yes block rate sux in rvr.. dueled a scout this other day and he almoust blocked as much as me.. ffs i had mob4 and moparry4 etc (at that moment pve specced ;p)
but back to the 8vs8 thing.. imo the last one zzang... that seemed like a nice ability.. or smth like that.. or mb make soldiers barricade more powerful...

edit: btw warriors can use 1h and 2h.. but hey.. we r still out dmg by light tanks..

 

[Raven]

u cant afford reactives for your sc armour? damn! u mids need to get DF more often! and buffbots cost money last i checked.

why would anyone put AF reactive procs on thier armour? procs last 1 minute and dont over write, but yeah spec AF isnt that much of an issue when you can use charges that last 10 minutes, however, plate is still the best armour in the game.

 

[rvn]

Your missing the point entirely, im not talking about damage potential but spec, Warriors don't have to waste 50 spec points to use two-handed weapons, Armsmen do, which means we cannot spec for defense as well without sacrificing our damage variance, Warriors have no such concerns.

Two use all those nice styles you quoted without huge damage variance we need to spec 50/50 or go hybrid and drop our defenses or try and come to some compromise.

As for taking more damage then the 3 heavy tanks, its possible, but theres not much in it, and on the other side of the balance warriors get more hit points more strength and more weaponskill as a result, we ALL have a slight advantage and a slight disadvantage but we all also suffer the same common problems in modern RvR.

Oh yeah, Warriors also getting a bloody good RR5 RA.

Armsmen get Snapshot.

Wanna trade?

51modified thrust/crush/slash gives you 100% base dmg, rest is from GR (ie 50+xx 2h specc)

 

[rvn]

Your missing the point entirely, im not talking about damage potential but spec, Warriors don't have to waste 50 spec points to use two-handed weapons, Armsmen do, which means we cannot spec for defense as well without sacrificing our damage variance, Warriors have no such concerns.

Two use all those nice styles you quoted without huge damage variance we need to spec 50/50 or go hybrid and drop our defenses or try and come to some compromise.

As for taking more damage then the 3 heavy tanks, its possible, but theres not much in it, and on the other side of the balance warriors get more hit points more strength and more weaponskill as a result, we ALL have a slight advantage and a slight disadvantage but we all also suffer the same common problems in modern RvR.

Oh yeah, Warriors also getting a bloody good RR5 RA.

Armsmen get Snapshot.

Wanna trade?

and your defence is plate armor.

 

[rvn]

Oh yeah, Warriors also getting a bloody good RR5 RA.

Armsmen get Snapshot.

Wanna trade?

id trade plate for evade,

gimped 1h dmg for better 2h dmg, and better 2h util (loose like 1% block rate or so, if speccing for 100% base dmg (ie 48shield,50 2h, 32crush for rr9) - base damage would then be 100%, and damage would be identical to 50+xx crush/50+xx 2h - if wyrd thing works on alb 2h.)

and also once you use testudo you are snared for 45sec, and cant attack, you cant cancel it either. so its handy sometimes, but mainly usefull when siegeing, and rushing into lord rooms that are camped etc.

also afaik warriors do not get more hitpoints than hero/armsman.

 

[rvn]

as for gimped 1h dmg, mostly what i do if i want to have most dmg output and defence at the same time is to:

switch 2h
hit
switch shield
(get hit)
switch 2h
hit

and repeate that + some run thru etc to get back pos.

 

[Dinfar]

Now all they need to do is add a 2min+ timer to grapple and all will be well.

Waj? Taking away the only fun i have ;<

 

[Bracken]

as for gimped 1h dmg, mostly what i do if i want to have most dmg output and defence at the same time is to:

switch 2h
hit
switch shield
(get hit)
switch 2h
hit

and repeate that + some run thru etc to get back pos.

Rvn telling albs about their classes again.

To get the same shield defence warriors can get (42) they sacrifice damage type, which loses you 1h ws (and don't warriors get a 6% higher ws anyway?) which in turn affects ability to get slam through defence - which with the bg delay remains a significant defensive tool. You also lose parry (not so important but still a factor). But hey we get plate...and you got to be really stretching your imagination to believe that makes a lot of difference. So although I don't think armsmen are a bad class per se, don't even begin to pretend they have as much as warriors.

 

[Twinky]

well, almoust every one u slam got resist couse of ae stunn from paccer in the beginning, or from a recent fight...

and id swap my shield spec any time to get higher 2h dmg..
mb that way i could compete with zerks etc..

 

[Duzic]

mb that way i could compete with zerks etc..

no one is gonna take a warrior > zerk for dmg tbh

 

[Gear]

Heavy tanks make me cry!

I have started to love mages tho

 

[Bonelamencer]

as for gimped 1h dmg, mostly what i do if i want to have most dmg output and defence at the same time is to:

switch 2h
hit
switch shield
(get hit)
switch 2h
hit

and repeate that + some run thru etc to get back pos.

Are you talking about duels heh? You didn't get the point,1h ws affects the chance to land ur slam/brut

Actually heavy tanks aren't that gimped but just cannot fit into ggs nowadays so smoothy like before(exception is arms ofc ,the symbol of gimpness ).Stop the whine and reroll something decent

 

[Bonelamencer]

Rvn telling albs about their classes again.

To get the same shield defence warriors can get (42) they sacrifice damage type, which loses you 1h ws (and don't warriors get a 6% higher ws anyway?) which in turn affects ability to get slam through defence - which with the bg delay remains a significant defensive tool. You also lose parry (not so important but still a factor). But hey we get plate...and you got to be really stretching your imagination to believe that makes a lot of difference. So although I don't think armsmen are a bad class per se, don't even begin to pretend they have as much as warriors.

I feel sorry for rr9 armsmen QQ

 

[Kagato]

(ie 48shield,50 2h, 32crush for rr9)

Now show me a RR9 Armsman on Excalibur.

We currently have 1 active RR8 Armsmen and 2 Active RR7 Armsmen

The rest are much much lower.



1 Wildpt TheLion 3,287,533 - 0 - 50 Lusitania High Council Highlander
2 Nukenin Ilovenena 3,197,211 - 0 - 50 Guardians of Light Highlander
3 Bracken Woodman 3,009,698 - 12,997 - 50 Legion of Darkness Briton
4 Kagato Dragonheart 2,703,248 - 77,177 - 50 First Cohort Highlander
5 Jimmythepost 1,883,160 - 47,086 - 50 Guards Of Avalon Highlander

Just for comparisons sake.

1 Meril 7,734,795 - 56,056 - 50 Groove Norseman
2 Soruu ChipChopp 4,923,714 - 40,924 - 50 Nolby Pride Norseman
3 Edo Cotequinho 4,156,996 - 0 - 50 White Rose Norseman
4 Adrirali CaptainObvious 2,678,499 - 23,187 - 50 CeIerity Kobold
5 Stormie Morningstar 2,301,759 - 0 - 50 Norseman of Midgard Norseman

 

[Raven]

You didn't get the point,1h ws affects the chance to land ur slam/brut

no it doesn't

 

[Twinky]

aint shield styles based on ur dex ? Oo

 

[Arid|Disci]

Now show me a RR9 Armsman on Excalibur.

We currently have 1 active RR8 Armsmen and 2 Active RR7 Armsmen

The rest are much much lower.



1 Wildpt TheLion 3,287,533 - 0 - 50 Lusitania High Council Highlander
2 Nukenin Ilovenena 3,197,211 - 0 - 50 Guardians of Light Highlander
3 Bracken Woodman 3,009,698 - 12,997 - 50 Legion of Darkness Briton
4 Kagato Dragonheart 2,703,248 - 77,177 - 50 First Cohort Highlander
5 Jimmythepost 1,883,160 - 47,086 - 50 Guards Of Avalon Highlander

Just for comparisons sake.

1 Meril 7,734,795 - 56,056 - 50 Groove Norseman
2 Soruu ChipChopp 4,923,714 - 40,924 - 50 Nolby Pride Norseman
3 Edo Cotequinho 4,156,996 - 0 - 50 White Rose Norseman
4 Adrirali CaptainObvious 2,678,499 - 23,187 - 50 CeIerity Kobold
5 Stormie Morningstar 2,301,759 - 0 - 50 Norseman of Midgard Norseman

U can't compare

cause the problem isn't armsmen (well not to be a bigger degree than hero / arms)

but u guys got paladin/friars(since toa) which is why u don't get grps...

Mythic fuckup probably yes, but still I'd take a arms over my hero in a hib grp for sure...

so as I see it the only way u can get these classes in grps easier is giving them something which is very good in fg rvr that no other classes have access to..to hero arms and warr

 

[Arid|Disci]

aint shield styles based on ur dex ? Oo

dex and shield spec

 

[Icebreaker]

Are you talking about duels heh? You didn't get the point,1h ws affects the chance to land ur slam/brut

:E

Not again :/


About Heavy Tank.

Two things i hate:

1.BG is shit. Took the fun out of guarding. It's just....well...gay!

2.I need 10 Minutes to kill other Alb/Mid Melee Classes as S/S Hero. xD

Heroes are a nice Class to play until you meet a Mage.

 

[rvn]

Are you talking about duels heh? You didn't get the point,1h ws affects the chance to land ur slam/brut

no im not talking about duels, thats what i would do if i had to guard someone aswell (however we got bodyguard now so guard is only usefull when 3 leeching scouts pop or so).

im not sure if 1h specc effects slam , but its really not that hard on my gimp low rr scout, or on the paladins that i have played in the past.
or hero with 25+17 blade, 50shield, its np to land slam

 

[rvn]

Now show me a RR9 Armsman on Excalibur.

We currently have 1 active RR8 Armsmen and 2 Active RR7 Armsmen

The rest are much much lower.



1 Wildpt TheLion 3,287,533 - 0 - 50 Lusitania High Council Highlander
2 Nukenin Ilovenena 3,197,211 - 0 - 50 Guardians of Light Highlander
3 Bracken Woodman 3,009,698 - 12,997 - 50 Legion of Darkness Briton
4 Kagato Dragonheart 2,703,248 - 77,177 - 50 First Cohort Highlander
5 Jimmythepost 1,883,160 - 47,086 - 50 Guards Of Avalon Highlander

Just for comparisons sake.

1 Meril 7,734,795 - 56,056 - 50 Groove Norseman
2 Soruu ChipChopp 4,923,714 - 40,924 - 50 Nolby Pride Norseman
3 Edo Cotequinho 4,156,996 - 0 - 50 White Rose Norseman
4 Adrirali CaptainObvious 2,678,499 - 23,187 - 50 CeIerity Kobold
5 Stormie Morningstar 2,301,759 - 0 - 50 Norseman of Midgard Norseman

that has nothing to do with the armsman as class, it has to do with armsmen not haveing a spot in group, if there were armsmen and warriors in midgar, there would basicly be 0 reason to choose warrior

exept for pve, where 50 1h specc is nice

 

[Chimaira]

i find my palas blockrate ok in SI template with 50+19 shield + mob3 oO

Easy fix tho: Fix the stun immunity tendrils shit, if tanks can slam it makes a world of difference.

They nerfed charge+Tendrils. so its either use it when grappled or stun immune. dont touch my immunity kthx :]

 

[Kagato]

that has nothing to do with the armsman as class, it has to do with armsmen not haveing a spot in group, if there were armsmen and warriors in midgar, there would basicly be 0 reason to choose warrior

exept for pve, where 50 1h specc is nice

Right, lets take the armsmen who's screwed up over double spec and forced to go hybrid, but has a little bit more absorb, rather then the troll warrior who has easy 50 2 hand or 1hand and still can spec 50 shield, with higher weapon skill and more hit points? I doubt it.

And im afraid the growth rates are a poor comparison, heavy tanks on the rare occasions they are grouped are usually done so for defense and BG bots, not for their damage potential. If they hit anything its usually an added bonus

But trying to compare the 3 heavy tanks and which is better is not constructive, we are all in the same boat and need help.

 

[Arid|Disci]

And im afraid the growth rates are a poor comparison, heavy tanks on the rare occasions they are grouped are usually done so for defense and BG bots, not for their damage potential. If they hit anything its usually an added bonus

Don't agree on this one, the best defense is offense and damage output is very important for a heavy tank, if u can help take out offensive tanks fast it's a great bonus to the grp.

as the defense(not self defense) of all heavy tanks is close to the same | shield / bg it's the dmg output and armour + ra's etc which make the difference

But trying to compare the 3 heavy tanks and which is better is not constructive, we are all in the same boat and need help.

agreek !

 

[Kagato]

Don't agree on this one, the best defense is offense and damage output is very important for a heavy tank, if u can help take out offensive tanks fast it's a great bonus to the grp.

I agree about the offense, however, offensive damage is not the heavy tanks job in most groups, Zerkers, savages, BM's and Mercs all do this job better, sad but true.

Thats my point there.

Yes damage out put is important, but that is not why heavy tanks are chosen in most cases, Defensive capability and utility is usually why we get chosen.

 

[Bracken]

no it doesn't

It affects chance to bypass block/parry/evade...and there are some tests out there that claim to show it affects actual to-hit chance as well, though I'm not totally convinced by those. Either way, it does affect the chance for the slam to hit home. Anyways it's all pretty irrelevant to compare the heavy tanks between realms - bottom line is it's our groupability within our own realm which is where we are hit.

 

[Zzang]

I agree about the offense, however, offensive damage is not the heavy tanks job in most groups, Zerkers, savages, BM's and Mercs all do this job better, sad but true.

so heavy tanks should do same dps like lighttanks?

 

[Nightrider]

A good place to start would b to actualy make the heavy tanks "heavy". Givf another 4-500 hp or some real AF. :wub: