Heavy tank classes

Zzang

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Dec 23, 2003
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I think we all know that warr, arms, hero isnt the first choice of classes when u set up a rvrgrp, mostly i think it is cuz they just get outcharged, wont block shit and easily cced away from the enemy tanks.
Basicly they are BG bots and with the current melee-lag that is in NF u can get tanks efficiency down to 40% just by running forth and back, also BG kick-in timer is useless as u cant ask a caster to stand still with 2 or more tanks for bg,
cuz he will die before BG kicks in.

Suggestions (feel freee to add ur own)

Higher Stoicism (maybe about 50% CC resistance baseline)
Longer interceptrange and lower timer
Fix BG Kick-in timer
Fix blockrate
Give all heavy tanks unique RA "Defencive rush" where u charge ur target with speed3, and automatically intercept 3 hits for him, same timers and cost as charge.
 

Konah

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Warriors are fine (in fact, nerf the duration of thier rr5), Heros are fine. Arms needs smth extra.
 

Vodkafairy

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the classes themself are fine, they just don't have a lot of group utility :p
 

stubbe

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Dec 22, 2003
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Defensive charge isn't such a bad idea, especially if you increase blockrate for the duration but make the user unable to attack, so it won't be used in offense..
 

Arid|Disci

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Konah said:
Warriors are fine (in fact, nerf the duration of thier rr5), Heros are fine. Arms needs smth extra.

I'd prefer arms over hero any day it's just better can bg just as good and higher dmg output kthx
 

Downanael

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Arid|Disci said:
I'd prefer arms over hero any day it's just better can bg just as good and higher dmg output kthx


Higher dmg output? Not really if both tanks are 2h.
 

Stunned

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They will be adjusted when Mythic has gotten enough ppl to reroll and secured the income for the next three months.

Then the next classes will be adjusted when ...
 

Coldbeard

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Jun 14, 2004
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Nice that some raised this issue, would like to see they add something a bit special to heavy tanks that can be good for grps. And Yes they need to remove the kick in timer for BG , those few seconds can be crucial. I like the idea of defensive charge , any decent DW'er will cut through a shield tank's defence rather quick. IMO we just need some more utility use for grp, yes we got some nice tools and some RA's to play around with but doesn't seem to that they are that appreciated, can't remember last time I have gotten a grp with my warrior .. ML9 Battlemaster and with decent equip ( shhh :) ) , It could be because people don't like me or the current rvr situation in mid, dont know.
 

Konah

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Arid|Disci said:
I'd prefer arms over hero any day it's just better can bg just as good and higher dmg output kthx

moose?
 

Konah

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Coldbeard said:
And Yes they need to remove the kick in timer for BG , those few seconds can be crucial.

So offence and defence tanks play whack-a-mole for 10mins everyfight? yeh why not... sounds like fun ye :rolleyes:

Im sure the delay was a design decision. and a rightful one. Now all they need to do is add a 2min+ timer to grapple and all will be well.
 

Ilum

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i find my palas blockrate ok in SI template with 50+19 shield + mob3 oO

Easy fix tho: Fix the stun immunity tendrils shit, if tanks can slam it makes a world of difference.
 

Puppet

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Old.Ilum said:
i find my palas blockrate ok in SI template with 50+19 shield + mob3 oO

Easy fix tho: Fix the stun immunity tendrils shit, if tanks can slam it makes a world of difference.

Think just put Tendrils on a 1 minute timer; not shared with anything would solve alot too.
 

Bonelamencer

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Zzang said:
I think we all know that warr, arms, hero isnt the first choice of classes when u set up a rvrgrp, mostly i think it is cuz they just get outcharged, wont block shit and easily cced away from the enemy tanks.
Basicly they are BG bots and with the current melee-lag that is in NF u can get tanks efficiency down to 40% just by running forth and back, also BG kick-in timer is useless as u cant ask a caster to stand still with 2 or more tanks for bg,
cuz he will die before BG kicks in.

Suggestions (feel freee to add ur own)

Higher Stoicism (maybe about 50% CC resistance baseline)
Longer interceptrange and lower timer
Fix BG Kick-in timer
Fix blockrate
Give all heavy tanks unique RA "Defencive rush" where u charge ur target with speed3, and automatically intercept 3 hits for him, same timers and cost as charge.
Is it just another whine thread? Mythic doesn't care about ur offers,really :p
rvn said:
why have moose when you can have buffbot specc af, and best armor in the game?
Can you look further or just near ur nose ? Hero and warr fit into mid or hib setups more easly then arms into alb :wanker:
 

Konah

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rvn said:
why have moose when you can have buffbot specc af, and best armor in the game?

u do know about spec af charges and reactives dont u? ofc u do. so stop wheeling out that lame "our realm dont get spec af" bullshit :)
 

Flimgoblin

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Arid|Disci said:
yes rly pole dmg > lw / cs

got any logs of that?

what's the slowest lw/cs weapon? slowest pole is 6.0 and you get a massive 3% damage increase per whole point of speed...

of course armsmen with crossbowspec are overpowered ;) but most don't spec it so we'll not bother counting that of course ;)
 

Dreami

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Fix Guard some how it could compete with just BG'ing ;<
 

Kagato

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one on one a heavy tank is ok, but when you start looking at the bigger picture of 8 v 8 or zerg war fare you really start to see the limitations.

It basically comes down to utility, heavy tank is either damage or defense. And only warrios can do both of those to any real degree, the rest have to pick one and suck at the other.

But then we look at modern RvR and see that theres just so many ways to reduce melee damage that its not even an issue anymore, then you can just negate it completely with a bit of lame strafing and kiting and the tank is suddenly a liability rather then a group asset.

I do believe that armsmen and heros suffer more then warrior in that order but its a broad heavy tank issue still.

If they could spec for Charge it would help but I think theres more that needs looking at then just this.

The role of the heavy tank is simply not needed now or they cannot perform it properly due to how RvR has evolved, heavy tanks need an advantage that is unique to give them a reason to be grouped.

Personally i'd like to see the fix as something non-RA related but thats unlikely to happen.

There are many options though, I myself have considered possibilities like advanced stoicasm for heavy tanks with a larger increase to make Detirmination worth considering again but theres alot of possibilities.

Essentially being cannon fodder is just not good enough.
 

vintervargen

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fix guard, both blockrates vs assisttrains, but also make a change to caster pets - if a pet is engaging someone you are guarding in melee, those pets should not be able to cast spells on their target, its a big fucking shield in the way fs (caba pet, sm pet, theurg air pets etc).
 

censi

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tbh though it seems all classes get cc'd to shit in fg rvr.

its like if you play any form of casting class you are all to familiar with the look of enemy pets, you get diesed, stunned, rooted mezzed, nearsighted, dotted, snared etc..

tanks really are the class they gets least effected by all this shit. sure you need to be able to be on your target to dish damage which is a problem, but as a defensive tank i think heros warrior and armsmenstill offer good shit to an rvr group (maybe :) )

banelord lighttanks better though for interupt.
 

Mas

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Konah said:
u do know about spec af charges and reactives dont u? ofc u do. so stop wheeling out that lame "our realm dont get spec af" bullshit :)

Its true, ask any mid tank whos been hitting on a fully buffed sorc, they are far more resiliant to melee which is a casters main worry, infs, NS's etc, and yes we have heard of reacitves and charges, but thats not necessarily available to all chars in the game due to money or depending on how long they been playing for, just like telling an arms to get end regen lvl2 pots, just not quite the same as pally end is it ? Sounds like youve been hurt bad with warriors before, wanting this and that nerfed.

Warriors are the class most in mid that needs love apart from the Valk, the warriors now are mainly resigned to pve farmers where they are vital to a group and highly sought after in TG raids. Fights in rvr these days dont last long at all and thats where the warrior comes in in long drawn out fights due to needing a shield up for guard etc, only 1h dmg sux and the defensive penalty of 2H weapons doesnt make for what a warrior is made for. Roll mid play a warr then start complaining over the warriors.
 

rvn

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Konah said:
u do know about spec af charges and reactives dont u? ofc u do. so stop wheeling out that lame "our realm dont get spec af" bullshit :)

still not as much as plate armor
 

rvn

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Flimgoblin said:
got any logs of that?

what's the slowest lw/cs weapon? slowest pole is 6.0 and you get a massive 3% damage increase per whole point of speed...

of course armsmen with crossbowspec are overpowered ;) but most don't spec it so we'll not bother counting that of course ;)

alb 2h styles are superior over mid sword/hammer/axe both with growth rate, and with effects (snare/stuns).
 

rvn

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Kagato said:
And only warrios can do both of those to any real degree, the rest have to pick one and suck at the other.

thats not true, hero/armsman only looses a bit damage on 1h, blocking just as good when guarding, and bodyguard work just as fine.

the class that can take most melee damage of those 3 is definatly armsman.

and yes, armsmen dont get spot in group, because paladins are so much better for the bg job, or friar.
 

rvn

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the styles for the different heavy tanks (even tho its not the main problem, but some reasons why if there was a group for a pure tank in all groups warrior would not be the obious choice imo)


alb 2h styles are superior over mid sword/hammer/axe both with growth rate, and with effects (snare/stuns).


GR name end/atkb

0.90 Onslaught M/M - Side Hindered
0.85 Two Moons M/H - After 'Onslaught' Stunned (9sec)
(usure) Doubler H/L - Back Hindered
0.95 Sun and Moon M/L - After 'Doubler' Stunned (7sec)

vs (hammer)

0.74 Conquer H/(none) - Back Hindered
0.94 Sledgehammer H/H - After 'Conquer
0.69 Frost Hammer H /M - Side Hindered

(sword)
0.85 Ragnarok M/M -L Back attack spd debuff
0.60 Northern Lights M/L - Side attack spd debuff
0.90 Aurora H/M - After 'Northern Lights' Hindered

vs (large weapon)

0.88 Annihilation M/H+(!) Back Stunned (9sec)
0.64 Hibernian Force H/M Side bleed
0.88 Obliteration M/M After 'Hibernian Force' Slowed
0.88 Demolish M/H After 'Obliteration'

0.69 Frontal Assault M/M - Front Hindered


2h alb > LW >>> midd hammer (well conq misses alot, and crush sucks vs alb chain/scale, however malice, and switch to LW's > no snares)
 

rvn

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Bonelamencer said:
Can you look further or just near ur nose ? Hero and warr fit into mid or hib setups more easly then arms into alb :wanker:
and that has anything to do with what i said ?
 

rvn

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censi said:
but as a defensive tank i think heros warrior and armsmenstill offer good shit to an rvr group (maybe :) )

banelord lighttanks better though for interupt.

high rr thane/paladin outperforms warrior/armsman pretty much
 

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