Have GOA made a public boo-boo?

[kaod]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
hate to point this out but GOA get a heck of a lot more subscribers from their french/german servers so telling the majority of their playerbase to "STFU AND LERN ENGLISH J00 STOOPID FECKERS!!!!" as you suggest they should isn't really good business sense.

You get a free day and you're whining? sheesh.

Although it's not really about the free day as such think of this:

If you were contracted to work for someone for 5 hours, did 1 hour of work, buggered off for 2 hours then came back to do the 2 "remaining" hours - how do you think your contracter would feel if you then told him - in all seriousness - that out of your own generosity you'd give him 2 hours back at a later date, as if you didn't actually owe him that?

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by JoxerTheMighty
read my post above. Oh and dont mix up RL with a game, mate.

Alright, i'll take my time and answer your previous question based upon my own experience.

No, im not from Great britain and my native language isnt English.

You said most Germans speak English. Well, perhaps very basic english, yeah. But enough for them to be able to play DaoC on a english server? No. How do i know this? Well, i dont really, but i play in a BattleField clan that originally was based in Germany, and most of the Germans i've encountered could barely get around with their english in a English server, and most certainly would never be able to understand the quests/npc text in DaoC. Even tho, germans could probably hang with the regular DaoC population when it comes to hunts and stuff, more often than not their spelling isnt the best, they atleast understand the written english language. But i can guarantee you, not even a 5th of the Germans would ever buy DaoC if it was in english only.

The french is a completely different story. They neither can nor WANT to be able to speak English. Atleast it's like that for most of them. What do i base this upon? First of all, Anarchy Online, which is a mmorpg with lots of french and US players mixed. The french population in that game is pretty much isolated except for a few french that actually do speak english. I also base it upon IRL experiences in France when i was looked upon as a plaguebearer when i tried to speak english there.

There's my point of view and i maintain my view that i think daoc would be a better place (atleast to me, and thats all i care for tbh) if the game was hosted and leased by a english company.


To the one that totally couldnt understand how daoc would be cheaper if a british company would publish it: first of all, you could skip the translation costs. That would lower the monthly fee, perhaps not by much, but atleast enough so i can buy myself a bubblegum once a month. But that aint the issue, the issue for me is that this game would NOT have to wait 2-4 months for every bloody patch to get here from US. Sure, sometimes it can be a good thing since Mythic released a few bad bugs that we never will have to experience here, but i think the advantages with having a 'au pair' patch-release with US far exceeds the disadvantages.

 

[JoxerTheMighty]

Noaim, you got a few interesting points up there but quite frankly I don't agree with you (at least not on all points).

There is definately a market for english games here in germany -as a matter of fact: Most games in the stores here are first available in english - maybe a german release follows later on but until then you have to buy the english version.
And yes, most germans english skill only covers the basic terms (like asking how to get to the nearest station without embarassing themselves) but..and imo this is a big "but": The mayority of the german gamers have quite good english skills. Sure, maybe the spelling is incorrect every now and then but have you ever tried hunting unfriendly natives in Emain while chatting?

Oh...and about statistics: MOST germans (and I only count the 18+ year-old ones here due to the legal situation here) prefer english games over a translated version. As a matter of fact the best sold game last year (that was not written by a german software company) was an english one. Try a german softwarestore like okaysoft.de f.e. You will find that they have every game in its original language version in stock.
It was a bit different in the early to middle 90s here though but things have changed and I can tell you that the mayority of german gamers is definately interested to play games in the original language (if it is english).

I cannot speak about the french here cause all my knowledge about them is based on pure reading and first-hand holiday experience - so not a good ground to start arguing with you on that subject.

As for the germans: Well, please let me give you one last example. I got about seven or eight close friends I usually hang out with. Out of these persons, I could only name ONE who would have problems watching an english movie f.e.


I totally agree with you on one point though: I would welcome an english company hosting this game. But then again we always have the choice of visiting the american servers. You want faster translations and a better customer support? Then go there - you wont get patched up to the latest version anywhere faster.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Sorry Kaod, I pretty much disagree with your original post in its entirety though I do follow the (flawed) logic you are using.

The players most likely to be affected by server problems on Excalibur have received compensation and most Prydwen players have characters on that server too.

GOA have acted to give the best chance of people being affected by the problems some kind of compensation. It might not be perfect but I think it shows a willingness to give something back and should be taken in that spirit, not as proof of some sign that different countries are treated differently.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[ssera]

Originally posted by noaim

To the one that totally couldnt understand how daoc would be cheaper if a british company would publish it: first of all, you could skip the translation costs. That would lower the monthly fee, perhaps not by much, but atleast enough so i can buy myself a bubblegum once a month. But that aint the issue, the issue for me is that this game would NOT have to wait 2-4 months for every bloody patch to get here from US. Sure, sometimes it can be a good thing since Mythic released a few bad bugs that we never will have to experience here, but i think the advantages with having a 'au pair' patch-release with US far exceeds the disadvantages.

Why don't you go play on the US servers then? Besides if the whole of Euro DAoC was in English and run by an English company it would still cost the same price (infact probably more). Think about it, you're paying now for a crap service, you'd be willing to pay more for a better service wouldn't you? Just because the English company in charge doesn't have to translate and hire extra people to do that, doesn't mean they're not going to take your money anyway.

As for saying why don't the rest of Europe learn to speak English? Well for one a lot of them do (I'm French and English is my 3rd language) but like someone above mentioned, the EU DAoC popullation is mainly German then French then English, so maybe you should learn to speak German... At least you'd get to play on the nice fast servers and have a choice of 5 () servers.

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by Roo Stercogburn
Sorry Kaod, I pretty much disagree with your original post in its entirety though I do follow the (flawed) logic you are using.

The players most likely to be affected by server problems on Excalibur have received compensation and most Prydwen players have characters on that server too.

GOA have acted to give the best chance of people being affected by the problems some kind of compensation. It might not be perfect but I think it shows a willingness to give something back and should be taken in that spirit, not as proof of some sign that different countries are treated differently.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Well, for what it's worth, I welcome your view even if in disagreement with mine.

As for taking the compensation in the spirit of giving something back etc, we know, and many people have argued that French and German subscribers get something different to the English ones.
The message from GOA actually IS proof of this whether intentional or not.

How hard can it be to find peoples /played time or those accounts over a certain level to see how used the server/account is for compensation on the affected server?
Instead they have taken a stance that shows that this server is "owned" by English subscribers, not the server playerbase nor the overall subscribers to GOA.

I'd be interested though to hear how you think my logic is flawed if you would take the time.

 

[Aoami]

Originally posted by noaim
Alright, i'll take my time and answer your previous question based upon my own experience.

No, im not from Great britain and my native language isnt English.

You said most Germans speak English. Well, perhaps very basic english, yeah. But enough for them to be able to play DaoC on a english server? No. How do i know this? Well, i dont really, but i play in a BattleField clan that originally was based in Germany, and most of the Germans i've encountered could barely get around with their english in a English server, and most certainly would never be able to understand the quests/npc text in DaoC. Even tho, germans could probably hang with the regular DaoC population when it comes to hunts and stuff, more often than not their spelling isnt the best, they atleast understand the written english language. But i can guarantee you, not even a 5th of the Germans would ever buy DaoC if it was in english only.

The french is a completely different story. They neither can nor WANT to be able to speak English. Atleast it's like that for most of them. What do i base this upon? First of all, Anarchy Online, which is a mmorpg with lots of french and US players mixed. The french population in that game is pretty much isolated except for a few french that actually do speak english. I also base it upon IRL experiences in France when i was looked upon as a plaguebearer when i tried to speak english there.

May i ask how many Germans and how many French folk you know? my guess is 10 max. You have absolutey no right to judge a whole race of people on what you know from 1/1,000,000th of them. Why should these people have to learn a new language? Why can't french people speak french if they wish? You disgust me.

 

[Galiryn]

Originally posted by ssera
.... so maybe you should learn to speak German...

english is a universal language, its better to teach the germans english, than teaching sweden, norway, denmark, great britain, french, spain etc. etc. to write and/or speak german

same goes with the frenchies..

but hey ho, i dont mind the crappy CS from goa, i dont use it



**edit : forgot the quote ^__^

 

[Aoami]

why should anyone be teaching people anything?

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by Aoami
why should anyone be teaching people anything?

Maybe because it's one of the more important elements that our civilisation is based on?

 

[Aoami]

blah i mean why should germans have to learn english anymore than the english people should learn german? English is only considered a widely used language because Americans speak it, most of whoms ancestors are british, and up untill a few hundred years ago American was a british country. What this has to do with anything i don't know.

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by ssera
Why don't you go play on the US servers then?

Usually 2 reasons.

1) Some people get horrible lag hoping across the pond.

2) Nearly everyone else is in bed when you play - which in turn can impact your fun, grouping, levelling, RvR.

Plus you get accused of raiding "out of primetime" I'd imagine.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Aoami
May i ask how many Germans and how many French folk you know? my guess is 10 max. You have absolutey no right to judge a whole race of people on what you know from 1/1,000,000th of them. Why should these people have to learn a new language? Why can't french people speak french if they wish? You disgust me.

So where are the swedish, the norweigan, the danish, the finnish, the spanish, the dutch and so on servers?

These people have to learn another language to be able to play, but why not germans and frenchies? Please tell me.

 

[Aoami]

Originally posted by noaim
So where are the swedish, the norweigan, the danish, the finnish, the spanish, the dutch and so on servers?

These people have to learn another language to be able to play, but why not germans and frenchies? Please tell me.

If the game was aimed at scandinavians, specialst language servers would have been implemented i'm sure.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Aoami
If the game was aimed at scandinavians, specialst language servers would have been implemented i'm sure.

Spanish players isnt scandinavians. And how is this game aimed at germans and frenchies?

I need to learn another language to play. Thats fucking racism and it disgusts me.

Well you know, actually it dont, since learning is something good. Get that into your useless brain.

But I am sure the world would be a great place if noone taught anyone anything, everyone demanded to have stuff translated to their native language, and didnt speak any language. Wouldnt it?

Again, I must say you are prolly the most stupid fucking person I ever had the dishonor to discuss something with.

And about game being directed to scandinavians. Midgard are scandinavian realm you could say, where are the german and french realms? I would say this game is MORE directed to scandinavians, than to either France or Germany.

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by Aoami
blah i mean why should germans have to learn english anymore than the english people should learn german? English is only considered a widely used language because Americans speak it, most of whoms ancestors are british, and up untill a few hundred years ago American was a british country. What this has to do with anything i don't know.

It's down to English being the language of the International Business community. (Due, in main to the Americans.)

Whether it's "considered" (it actually is, it's not considered) a widely used language due to this reason or not, the fact still remains it's widely used.

Wonder why Mythic doesn't have Spanish servers since not all of them speak English?

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by noaim
Spanish players isnt scandinavians. And how is this game aimed at germans and frenchies?

I know what you mean, however I think the context would be that French and German players have a bigger player base in Europe, therefore the GOA aspect is aimed at those languages.

English is probably only in there to make easy money. Cruddy machines, no work to be done on the files etc....

Originally posted by noaim
I need to learn another language to play. Thats fucking racism and it disgusts me.[/B]

This depends in large to the contract that GOA have with Mythic in relation to deliverance of service.
GOA don't *have* to by law nor right produce a specific language server for Europe unless it's actually specified in their contract.

As I said - I bet they wouldn't even bother if it wasn't virtually money for nothing for them. (Which I won't complain about either, free enterprise and all.)

 

[noaim]

The point was that noone should need to learn anything, by Aoamis way of thinking. Ofc it would not be realistic to translate to every language and have servers for ever country, it was just an example that it isnt only the poor germans and frenchies that need to learn other languages if there were only english servers, cause in this world, there are more than 3 spoken languages.

And on second quote, read next line aswell.

 

[Aoami]

Originally posted by noaim
Spanish players isnt scandinavians.

I Know.

Originally posted by noaim
And how is this game aimed at germans and frenchies?

It was planned to be released in these countries before it was in England.

Originally posted by noaim
I need to learn another language to play. Thats fucking racism and it disgusts me.

I can imagine you had a pretty firm graps of english before you had heard of DAoC.

Originally posted by noaim
Well you know, actually it dont, since learning is something good. Get that into your useless brain.

My brain is far from useless, for if it was, i wouldn't be sitting here replying to your contrived slander.

Originally posted by noaim

But I am sure the world would be a great place if noone taught anyone anything, everyone demanded to have stuff translated to their native language, and didnt speak any language. Wouldnt it?

Of Course it wouldn't, thats just silly. Stop blowing things out of proportion.

Originally posted by noaim
Again, I must say you are prolly the most stupid fucking person I ever had the dishonor to discuss something with.

I would consider myself fairly clever considering i'm 15.

Originally posted by noaim
And about game being directed to scandinavians. Midgard are scandinavian realm you could say, where are the german and french realms? I would say this game is MORE directed to scandinavians, than to either France or Germany.

OFC Midgard is a scandinavian realm, hence Midgard being the Viking name for Scandinavia. In what way this makes the game directed to scandinavians i don't know. As for German and French realms. At the time period DAoC is set in, France and Germany would both be very technologicly similar (Weapons, armour, etc) to England, which the realm of Albion is based on. Does this mean every Irish player must play Hibernia now?

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Aoami
Bla bla I am smart I am 15 bla bla.

OFC Midgard is a scandinavian realm, hence Midgard being the Viking name for Scandinavia. In what way this makes the game directed to scandinavians i don't know. As for German and French realms. At the time period DAoC is set in, France and Germany would both be very technologicly similar (Weapons, armour, etc) to England, which the realm of Albion is based on. Does this mean every Irish player must play Hibernia now?

No shit Midgard was the home of the vikings. However, if you used that clever brain of yours and actually did read what I said, you would have seen this: I would say this game is MORE directed to scandinavians, than to either France or Germany.

Do you see the MORE? I dont say it is directed to scandinavians, I said MORE. I think it is directed to anyone who wants to play the game. But tell me why german and french players shouldnt need to learn another language, when the rest of the non-english speaking world do? And tell me why it disgusts you to read that I think that germans and frenchies should learn english. How the fuck is it disgusting to learn another language?

Just to sum it up:

Originally posted by Aoami
why should anyone be teaching people anything?

Sigh.

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by noaim
The point was that noone should need to learn anything, by Aoamis way of thinking. Ofc it would not be realistic to translate to every language and have servers for ever country, it was just an example that it isnt only the poor germans and frenchies that need to learn other languages if there were only english servers, cause in this world, there are more than 3 spoken languages.

I guess you can't really blame a French company for having french servers, that makes sense. (Even America's mighty Disney is nearly all in French in EuroDisney.)

As for German, together with English and French it's one of the "central" languages of Europe, which is the area GOA are aiming at.
Judging by the numbers on the player base of FRA / GER, seems they have their market strategy on this issue sorted out if nothing else.

Originally posted by noaim
And on second quote, read next line aswell. [/B]

Done. You retracted the fact it disgusts you, not the racism part, hence my reply.

 

[Aoami]

it didn't like the way you were judging the whole of a country on your knowledge of only a few people, it had nothing to do with the language issue. But i still don't understand why DAoC is MORE directed at Scandinavians simply because it features a Scandinavian realm. It's like saying Lemmings is directed at small rodents because it features lemmings.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by kaod
Done. You retracted the fact it disgusts you, not the racism part, hence my reply.

Well duh, it aint racism to get people to learn another language then

 

[hiban]

Originally posted by Aoami
If the game was aimed at scandinavians, specialst language servers would have been implemented i'm sure.

Dont think the game is aimed at anyone special... Its supposed to be playable by everyone. The reason there are German/French speaking servers is that it makes communication between ppl easier, as they might have probs/dont wanna learn another language. If ppl find it too hard to play the game bcuz of lacking skills in a language, they quit. Then the creators of the game dont make as much money- simple as that. Doubt they would make much profit on an Icelandic server... So they have to adopt to the rest, just like swedes, danes, norwegians, greeks, fins, hungarians, russians, dutches... u name it...

French/germans lack of english skills isnt really news. Its all been seen lots before. The fact that ppl wanna use their own language and preserve it isnt really a problem. But dont fucking travel across the globe and expect me to know it, when there is one language thats used by (almost) every modern civilization now.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Aoami
it didn't like the way you were judging the whole of a country on your knowledge of only a few people, it had nothing to do with the language issue. But i still don't understand why DAoC is MORE directed at Scandinavians simply because it features a Scandinavian realm. It's like saying Lemmings is directed at small rodents because it features lemmings.

No it isnt. And if french people knew english, why, I ask again, do the scores in for example eurovision songcontest need to be said in both english and french? That kinda points out that they do NOT know english. And thats even VERY simple and basic english.

Anyways, the point is, that I dont give a fuck if they translate the game to german, french or whatever language they want to translate it to. What I do care about is that because they cant learn the english language, I have to wait longer for patches and I have to pay more money (as said not much, but this is not about the amount of money). That, or I have to play on US servers where people sleep when I can play and where I have more lag (well maybe not since I play on Excal).

 

[Aoami]

French is used in many other european countries other than France.

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by noaim
I would say this game is MORE directed to scandinavians, than to either France or Germany.
Do you see the MORE? I dont say it is directed to scandinavians, I said MORE. I think it is directed to anyone who wants to play the game.

I think there's a mix-up of terminology here.

The game is obviously more directed at English, French and German speakers from GOA's perspective. More French and Germans play than Scandinavians so I fail to see how it's directed more at them.
If it's due to the content - i.e Midgard - then would it be naive to suggest that something like Alien vs Predator is more directed at non-humans?

Originally posted by noaim
And tell me why it disgusts you to read that I think that germans and frenchies should learn english. How the fuck is it disgusting to learn another language?
[/B]

lol. He doesn't mean the notion of learning in itself is disgusting.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by kaod
lol. He doesn't mean the notion of learning in itself is disgusting.

But still he fails to see why anyone should teach anyone else anything.

And I dont think the game is more directed to those countries from anyones POV but they got a bigger population and therefor more players.

However I dont think Mythic made this game with the thought "lets make a game aimed at German, French and English people".

And I dont think GOA thinks this game is aimed at germans or french people. They just see an opportunity to make money, and they take it, at the cost of english players (by GOAs definition, players who registered with english subscriptionpage).

 

[kaod]

Let's not forget of course that the PvP server was only in English.

So could the French and Germans get by there out of necessity or due to the fact that most can understand the language in-game?

 

[hiban]

Originally posted by kaod
English is probably only in there to make easy money. Cruddy machines, no work to be done on the files etc....

*Looks at US DAoC population*

Remove prydwen, excal and all the US servers and count the days before this game is no more