News Harriers gone, Tornado's next?

[Wazzerphuk]

It doesn't matter how fucked everything is, as long as we have hundred of billion pound machines sitting there doing nothing for years so I can feel "safe". That's THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

 

[Sparx]

A rather poetic way of saying what i mean there wazz lol

 

[old.Osy]

tbh, imperialistic colonization has no place in the 21st century, and as such, I think the FalkLands should gradually become independent. Whilst I agree that the feasibility of such an endeavor might not come to fruit, I still think they should be independent.

 

[DaGaffer]

tbh, imperialistic colonization has no place in the 21st century, and as such, I think the FalkLands should gradually become independent. Whilst I agree that the feasibility of such an endeavor might not come to fruit, I still think they should be independent.

They don't want to be independent. The population of the Falklands are staunchly British.

 

[old.Osy]

They don't want to be independent. The population of the Falklands are staunchly British.

So were the today's Australians.

 

[DaGaffer]

So were the today's Australians.

Its a pretty different set of circumstances; Australia has the resources to be independent, the Falklands don't. If they were independent of Britain they would end up, as a minimum, an economic colony of Argentina, a kind of cold version of Puerto Rico, independent in name, but totally beholden on a large (and culturally very different) neighbour.

 

[Will]

(Slight aside)

The armed forces spending is always cart before horse i.e. always fighting the last war. The first question should always be "What job/jobs do we want the armed forces to be capable of? What are the threats and likely missions they will be involved in?" and then "Can we afford that?" followed by "How do we make that possible?"

I'm curious what people in this thread think the forces should be able to do and how they would go about making it happen.

 

[Turamber]

The Byzantine Empire scrapped its navy because of costs, yet ultimately the lack of a navy cost it substantially more. If we ever get attacked we can always rely upon our lager louts and growing obese population to save the day. Hmm.

 

[Raven]

Defend the UK and the UK interests only. Let the rest of the world get on with it. It's about time we stopped trying to help other countries, we get little thanks for it. (discounting Afghanistan and Iraq as we weren't/aren't really helping anyone)

 

[Corran]

We spend to much money on other countries, we right of every "third world" countries debts whilst increasing our own (why not just stop the interest buildup and when they sorted out they can begin paying back the original debt interest free ffs!!!), we give money to other countries that suffer a disaster then laugh when something happens in own country etc etc. We fight other peoples wars just to say we were there (or it seems it at times)

We pretty much got a great government as long as you dont live here and want free money

 

[Sparx]

Defend the UK and the UK interests only. Let the rest of the world get on with it. It's about time we stopped trying to help other countries, we get little thanks for it. (discounting Afghanistan and Iraq as we weren't/aren't really helping anyone)

Good to see you understand world economics

 

[Embattle]

The Eurofighter is technically the Tornado's replacement and is getting on a bit itself let alone the aircraft it is replacing, naturally due to the usual delays and cost overruns that happened during its development the Typhoon was already middle aged when it arrived.

As for the Falklands it is protected enough with Typhoons, a garrison and other technology plus various other items such as subs.

The way to look at the armed forces is there has been a overspend in the last decade through a mixture of wars, bad decisions and over spends and that isn't new money that was spent but future money.

 

[Raven]

Good to see you understand world economics

Defend the UK and the UK interests only.

The difficult bit for you. If it is of interest to the UK then good. Defending some sandpit is pointless.

 

[tierk]

Waste of money, both of them. Harriers and Tornado's.

As for all the talk of the Falklands and it being English fucking :lol:

22,000km from mainland England and it is considered British? If the people living there want to be part of England bring them the fuck back to the UK ffs and stop with this idiocy, seriously??

As for England being unprotected, may i ask from who exactly? Why do we need multi-billion pound planes for? To protect us against our allies the Europeans or the USA?

Seeing as no other country seems to ahve a capability beyond a pop gun and pea shooters in comparision, seems kind of pointless and a massive waste of money.

 

[megadave]

Why should they have to leave their home tierk? It's more British that it is Argentian, in fact Argentina didn't exist when the British colonised the place, and if the people there want it to remain British, what's the problem?


But yes, i'm glad we're not wasting a few billion on planes that have no real purpose unless we decide to go to war when we shouldn't be anyway.

 

[Job]

Scrap the lot and use the money to buy more nuclear subs, those babies have kept the peace for 50 years and they're all we need, we actually sent one to Argentina during the war, first nuke sub to sink a ship, just reminds everyone what it could really do...as in level cities..would we use it?
Of course, if the atattacking army gets to the door we press the button, so not much point in starting is there.

 

[soze]

What I always wondered is why we don't have a reserve fleet like the Yanks. The Aircraft carrier could have been taken out of active service and then maintained at minimum cost. Then should a situation arise where we need one within a month it could be back up and running. That costs more than scrapping it and making sailors redundant but it seems to me a smarter idea. You could also have the same with Harriers. As it is it will be around 2020 before we have the ability to land a plan at sea.

 

[DaGaffer]

What I always wondered is why we don't have a reserve fleet like the Yanks. The Aircraft carrier could have been taken out of active service and then maintained at minimum cost. Then should a situation arise where we need one within a month it could be back up and running. That costs more than scrapping it and making sailors redundant but it seems to me a smarter idea. You could also have the same with Harriers. As it is it will be around 2020 before we have the ability to land a plan at sea.

Simple, because its mind-bogglingly expensive. Even if a ship is sat in harbour "doing nothing" it costs nearly as much to operate as if on active duty; as well as maintenance, you have to keep the crews trained and combat ready, and all the systems up to date and active, and for the marginal cost of fuel, if you have a ship, you many as well use it. In the case of aircraft, its worse; mothballing is an accounting exercise, which for anyone but the Americans, isn't viable (it costs nearly as much to bring an aircraft "out of mothballs" as to build a new one, which is why it almost never actually happens, even though the US keeps thousands of planes theoretically on inventory this way).

As for crews, the US has a massive pool of reservists to draw on who have to train at least once a month for a number of years after discharge (I think its five, it may be longer), the UK has none of that strength in depth, and reservist training is minimal except in a few areas like medicine. (I think the active reserve is only three years now, except in certain circumstances, although you can theoretically be called up until you're 45).

 

[Punishment]

This is all about perspective, why waste so much money defending the last bastion of the British Empire ?

People are starving and begging and homeless all over the UK, yet nobody seems to care

The Old Tornado is some machine tho i saw one at afew airshows and it made the F-16 look like a childs toy

 

[Wazzerphuk]

People are starving and begging and homeless all over the UK, yet nobody seems to care

If they're in the North they deserve it, if they're in the South it's a tragedy. Northerners coming South don't count either.

 

[Reno]

Unless the Argies have credible ASW forces and the UK no longer has sufficent Attack subs, the seas will remain clear around the Falklands.

Danita

 

[Ormorof]

as a quick bump, they've now announced 10,000 troops will lose their jobs, imagine fighting in Afghanistan for your country only to be told you are getting sacked once you get back.

are they following a "How To Destroy Morale of Servicemen" guidebook or something?

 

[Zenith.UK]

Getting rid of all strike aircraft would be stupidly naive.
This sort of thing happens all the time...
RAF Intercepts Russian Bomber Planes Caught Flying In British Airspace Near Stornoway, Scotland | UK News | Sky News

Seeing planes flying down the Mach Loop is amazing.
The Mach Loop is a number of valleys between Dolgellau and Machynlleth in North Wales where RAF and NATO forces practice low level flying. They also use the River Conwy as part of the route to guide them from the coast. The planes fly so close to the ground that you feel you could reach out to touch them.
Planes I've seen fly this route...

• Harrier
• Tornado
• Typhoon
• Hawk trainer
• Hercules transport
• F-14 Tomcat
• F-15 Eagle

I am also certain I've seen an F-35 Lightning (Joint Strike Fighter). It was a problem to identify because I thought it was an F-15 to start with but the tail configuration was wrong. I had to go through a number of aircraft silhouettes until I realised I'd seen an F-35.

Some pictures can be found here...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...nown-as-the-Mach-Loop-in-Snowdonia-Wales.html

 

[fettoken]

Only aircrafts i've seen live are a couple of F-15's and Jas Gripen. Thou the Gripen's weren't really spectacular.

 

[DaGaffer]

There was a time when you'd see tons of different military aircraft over the UK, but NATO and the yanks barely do any exercises in Europe anymore because of all the nimbys and safety nazis. I remember one summer when I was at Uni I was working at a gas plant in Lincolnshire and we could watch a massive NATO exercise going on for weeks off the coast; F-16s, F-15s, A-10s, Tornados, Jags and Harriers, even Buccaneers and old Phantoms. And from loads of different forces, German, Belgian, Dutch, Norwegian as well as US/UK. Never get that here in anymore, they all go off to Nevada or Canada.

 

[Wij]

Eurofighter Typhoon: It's EVEN WORSE than we thought ? The Register

 

[cHodAX]

Here is a thought, why don't we just lease a carrier from the yanks, it helps them reduce costs and it helps us fulfil our needs. The same could be done with planes, they just order more F22's and F35's etc, we lease them for a couple of decades at favourable prices but the yanks still have a large reserve on call with a close ally if ever needed.

Better than what they do now, mothball or decommission perfectly viable hardware just to reduce the operating budget.

 

[Ormorof]

cho for minister of defence

just gotta get the Obama boys on board with the idea

(and i doubt most americans like the idea of "renting" out planes to anyone, let alone the British Monarchy's Oppresive Army!)

 

[Wij]

We'll put down their rebellion yet !

 

[Tuthmes]

The F22 is not for sale/rent!