News Half sentence for pleading guilty? Thank god they shelved that idea

[Ctuchik]

And yet there is no viable alternative.

Because no one has made any serious efforts in finding one.

 

[Gwadien]

Pfft, they should'nt have shelved it, they should have passed it, then when people plead guilty, they lie to them, say they give them half sentence, but they don't - Saves money!

 

[Helme]

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Why don't we extend the average sentences by two or three times as well? And hey why don't we sell them to private corporations because those guys know how to bring the rising costs down!

And yes, you might argue that the root of crime is opportunity. But why are they considering them? If you don't need to steal to survive you'll pass the opportunity up to do so because there's really no point. Some crimes are those of passion, there's a few different levels there. Bar brawls are on the lower end, with murder at the higher. Obviously the smaller stuff can be sorted without prison, and the major stuff should be helped as best we can.

 

[throdgrain]

Because no one has made any serious efforts in finding one.

Easy patronising answer offering no productive results

 

[cHodAX]

Spending money and dealing with the problem, perhaps? More money for local institutions to deal with mental illness? A sensible debate on this country's failed drugs policy?

Fuck the Daily Mail readers.

You say those like they are easy to solve though, billions have been spent on drugs treatment and mental illness and the results have so far been pathetic. The vast majority of people in prison are not mentally ill, most of the drug users inside were not hardcore addicts until locked up either. There just isn't any easy answers to this because it all stems from a multitude of sources such as poor parenting, childhood abuse, peer pressure and the 'aspirational society' making people desire things they don't need nor can obtain with ease and so people break laws to get them. Of course there are many others.

Sadly we reach a point where we can not remedy all of societies ill's, then we have to decide how we deal with people who break the law. Locking them up seems to be the lesser of a number of evils, certainly letting them off lightly isn't working and is infact making the problem worse with repeat offending now at record highs.

 

[Scouse]

And a whole lot do, not really helping to deter from it.

This!

The economics dictate that crime is worth it. Add to that a society based around rampant consumerism. Economics...

 

[Fafnir]

A few years ago we had alot of russians comming here commiting a crime to get sent to swedish jail and get a nice time. Stopped after we started sending them back to russian jail

 

[Tom]

You say those like they are easy to solve though, billions have been spent on drugs treatment and mental illness and the results have so far been pathetic. The vast majority of people in prison are not mentally ill, most of the drug users inside were not hardcore addicts until locked up either. There just isn't any easy answers to this because it all stems from a multitude of sources such as poor parenting, childhood abuse, peer pressure and the 'aspirational society' making people desire things they don't need nor can obtain with ease and so people break laws to get them. Of course there are many others.

Sadly we reach a point where we can not remedy all of societies ill's, then we have to decide how we deal with people who break the law. Locking them up seems to be the lesser of a number of evils, certainly letting them off lightly isn't working and is infact making the problem worse with repeat offending now at record highs.

You write this as though you're an expert on the subject but a few minutes looking around suggests that a sizeable proportion of the UK's prison population suffers from one or more mental conditions, and that their incarceration is often considered to be an easy "solution" to a difficult problem. As for drugs, it's silly to spend so much money trying to keep people from doing whatever they want to do; we'd be better off spending all that money on treating those who abuse drugs.

For most offenders, prison doesn't work. No matter how nicely you wrap things up, such punitive measures are an astonishing waste of money based on theories that are well out of date.

 

[Damini]

For my tuppence, I think the real problem is the failure to crack down, or even investigate, low level crime. People don't just look at the job papers, shrug, and decide to become a career criminal instead. Kids get to dabble in crime, push the boundaries, hone their art, and never fear any repercussions. By the time they're old enough to get a job they either (quite rightly) realise that crime pays better, or they have minor convictions under their belt that will mean nobody wants to employ them anyway.

Drug addicts should all have access to rehab, but it shouldn't be enforced. You can lead a horse to water, and all that.

 

[Huntingtons]

Thank goodness you qualified that at the end!

"Sir, this is your third speeding endorsement. Sentencing guidelines state that I have to now shoot you in the back of the head."

a guy in the us got sentenced to life in jail for stealing a lollipop for his kid.

3rd strike. Yay.


i can see pros and cons with that system.

If you get off by pleading guilty and wont become a repeat offender its not really a bad idea. You should get fined or something, but it will scare you enough not to do it again.
If you are will become a repeat offender and plead guilty to a crime, do it again your punishment will become that more severe (since you plead guilty for a similar crime).

 

[cHodAX]

You write this as though you're an expert on the subject but a few minutes looking around suggests that a sizeable proportion of the UK's prison population suffers from one or more mental conditions, and that their incarceration is often considered to be an easy "solution" to a difficult problem. As for drugs, it's silly to spend so much money trying to keep people from doing whatever they want to do; we'd be better off spending all that money on treating those who abuse drugs.

For most offenders, prison doesn't work. No matter how nicely you wrap things up, such punitive measures are an astonishing waste of money based on theories that are well out of date.

You keeping going back to that point but I think you are getting the wrong impression, I am not vindicating prison and I know that is doesn't work in the sense of rehabilitating, quite the contrary. There is no viable alternative though, everything that has been tried has fallen flat on it's face, either in the U.K. or anywhere else in the world. Infact it is quite clear that by going either too hard or two soft on offenders increases crime, either on the violent or petty numbers dependant on the regieme.

Your point about mental illness is well taken, still you don't present alternatives and surely you would agree that we cannot have criminals (mentally ill or not) walking around with full liberty despite being convicted of a crime? Mental hospitals can be extreme, a sledgehammer to knock a nail in. Mental health programs already exist, offenders can get help but it is extremely difficult for the system to diagnose and treat those people who do not think there is anything wrong with them and refuse help.

Much as a I loathe prison, I would rather have them as they are than not at all or as extremely harsh regiemes where the offender would rather die than go back there, that just leads to rampant murder growth ala South Africa.

 

[GimmlyThe3rd]

Fuck prison for non psycho murders, they should be sent to the army (no pay) and if they leave, they go to prison.

 

[cHodAX]

For my tuppence, I think the real problem is the failure to crack down, or even investigate, low level crime. People don't just look at the job papers, shrug, and decide to become a career criminal instead. Kids get to dabble in crime, push the boundaries, hone their art, and never fear any repercussions. By the time they're old enough to get a job they either (quite rightly) realise that crime pays better, or they have minor convictions under their belt that will mean nobody wants to employ them anyway.

Drug addicts should all have access to rehab, but it shouldn't be enforced. You can lead a horse to water, and all that.

Very much agree with the sentiment of punishing for low level crime but also at a young age, that is definately where it starts and infact a lack of power for teachers these days has only made the situation worse. Growing up as a kid 30 years ago, you might not respect your parents but you HAD to respect your teachers or life was going to be hell for a decade. I do not see that in schools anymore, all my teacher friends have experienced nightmare pupils and will freely admit there is nothing they can do to punish or help the child. The system fails them.

It is all enough to make your head spin really, society is at fault, no doubt at all. Even simple things like mothers having to work and so no adults being home when the child gets back from school have contributed. Anything we do to fix the overall problem is like putting a sticking plaster on a shotgun wound.

 

[Ormorof]

Fuck prison for non psycho murders, they should be sent to the army (no pay) and if they leave, they go to prison.

as wonderful as that may sound this has never worked, it has been tried many times by many different cultures and countries and failed each time, simply because it completely devalues being in the army

i mean whats the point of joining the army and serving your country (which many soldiers are proud to do) when many of the others in the army are simply a bunch of crooks trying to get out of doing anything

i should also point out that putting people who have already commited crimes, in a high pressure situation, with little to lose, and a gun is probably a bad idea...

 

[Helme]

Fuck prison for non psycho murders, they should be sent to the army (no pay) and if they leave, they go to prison.

Let's solve one problem by exacerbating another, because surely bloating an already big and unnecessary military budget is the answer. Hey, why don't we take this a step further and use them as forced labour and hire them out to corporations for a few pennies an hour? That seemed to have worked great in the US, except for you know the people who previously had those jobs at decent wages.

Oh and by the way, the last thing you want is an army of criminals. Looking at what 'normal' people do during wartimes, I can't imagine what someone who would be disqualified normally due to his psych profile would do when given a gun and pointed at an "enemy".

 

[GimmlyThe3rd]

Let's solve one problem by exacerbating another, because surely bloating an already big and unnecessary military budget is the answer. Hey, why don't we take this a step further and use them as forced labour and hire them out to corporations for a few pennies an hour? That seemed to have worked great in the US, except for you know the people who previously had those jobs at decent wages.

Oh and by the way, the last thing you want is an army of criminals. Looking at what 'normal' people do during wartimes, I can't imagine what someone who would be disqualified normally due to his psych profile would do when given a gun and pointed at an "enemy".

Was talking about non serious crime, like stealing a car and getting 6 months in prison. And after 6 weeks of basic training, they can tell if they can be trusted or not.

I have a few mates who joined the army after they left school, with no quals, shitty family etc. Now they are earning like 30k+ a year and are doing very well. Free accom, food, tour bonuses etc, it's not thats bad.

It's what my brother (twn, non ident) needs, he really hasn't quite grown up yet. Has a shit job, does stupid shit all the time, can't quite look after him self and in a spiral of depression. Army would fix him right up, but can't convince him yet and I think he would break mentally anyway